Eastenders - Current Episode Discussion - VIII

[Dazzle]

I liked the unexpectedness of the twist about the estate agent after we were led to believe Jane would confess, but I'm finding Jane and Ian's actions less and less convincing. I suppose I can just about get my head around Jane thinking she can outrun her guilt by moving far away from Albert Square, but Ian's totally unconcerned about Max's fate! There have of course been many times in the past thirty years when he's behaved despicably, but this still feels out of character to me - or is it my memory that's at fault? :searchme:

I was disappointed Liam gave up on blackmailing Ian so quickly. I'd have enjoyed seeing Ian panic-stricken about how to get hold of the money.

Abi seemed shocked just for a second when Carol announced Max's guilt. I can't make up my mind whether she really believes in her father's guilt or not.

[parkerman]

Abi seemed shocked just for a second when Carol announced Max's guilt. I can't make up my mind whether she really believes in her father's guilt or not.

I thought that too. I think Abi knows Max didn't do it for some reason. Also, she mentioned Lauren being Max's favourite last night. Is this a sign that Lauren is coming back and will be the one to get him out?

[Ruffed_lemur]

I thought that too. I think Abi knows Max didn't do it for some reason. Also, she mentioned Lauren being Max's favourite last night. Is this a sign that Lauren is coming back and will be the one to get him out?

I can't believe Abi thought Max did it, when she knows Max thought it was her.

[Ruffed_lemur]

Should Abi be arrested, how many how times now has she changed her story on Max to the police and also her own fight with Lucy on the night she died

Perhaps she should be. She's acting so crazy at the moment!

[tammyy2j]

I thought that too. I think Abi knows Max didn't do it for some reason. Also, she mentioned Lauren being Max's favourite last night. Is this a sign that Lauren is coming back and will be the one to get him out?

I am glad Lauren finally got a mention I am surprised Carol or Whitney have not contacted her yet about Max also is Cindy not in any contact with Peter

If Liam and Cindy just leave and not tell Carol I will be disappointed honestly I don't think the Lucy murder case should drag on much longer either Jane or Ian should tell the police the truth on Bobby

Roxy is an idiot, why does she always need a man :angry:

[Dazzle]

Roxy is an idiot, why does she always need a man :angry:

Because she's an idiot! :p

I've read rumours that Lauren will be back in September, but there's been nothing official yet and I doubt it's a permanent return. I've no idea how true these rumours are though. Maybe DTC wants to surprise us, and Max's trial starts fairly soon so the timing fits.

[lizann]

fatboy not a dean fan this is new

sharon knows but will ian dissuade her

[lizann]

fatboy not a dean fan this is new

sharon knows but will ian dissuade her

[tammyy2j]

I did laugh at nosy Sharon reading the email from Cindy to Bobby

That was Cindy's last episode too which is a shame

[maidmarian]

I did laugh at nosy Sharon reading the email from Cindy to Bobby

That was Cindy's last episode too which is a shame

Its probably for "plot" reasons- and possibly
the actress doesnt fit in with current regime-
but all soaps seem to get rid of characters
that could have good story lines and yet
keep those that dont have much going
for them!
A shame as you say!

[parkerman]

Characters in soaps never seem to have many possessions. Everything they own can be fitted in to one or two small bags.

[tammyy2j]

Characters in soaps never seem to have many possessions. Everything they own can be fitted in to one or two small bags.

Liam's carry bag looked very light and empty :p did Liam or Carol call Bianca and let her know about his permanent move to Germany to Ricky?

[lizann]

i was expecting cindy to return after a few weeks abroad fed up of liam

[Dazzle]

What a shock that it was Mimi Keene's last episode! I was fully expecting her to be back after a few weeks. She certainly left with a bang by sending that video. I'm glad Sharon now knows, and I'm looking forward to some intense scenes between her and Ian. Their scenes are always riveting.

I enjoyed seeing Marcus again and the look on Phil's face when he realised what was going on. :D

Roxy's already regretting moving in with that pig Dean. http://www.picgifs.com/smileys/smileys-and-emoticons/happy/smileys-happy-514478.gif (http://www.picgifs.com/smileys/)

[parkerman]

did Liam or Carol call Bianca and let her know about his permanent move to Germany to Ricky?

Yes.

[tammyy2j]

I am very disappointed in Liam so blinded by his love for Cindy seeing how upset his gran Carol was he could have been honest with her

[parkerman]

When I saw that scene I have to say I completely shared your view, tammy.

However, maybe he hoped that sending that video would sort it out and get Max released.

[tammyy2j]

When I saw that scene I have to say I completely shared your view, tammy.

However, maybe he hoped that sending that video would sort it out and get Max released.

I think Liam was trying to talk Cindy out of sending the video

[Kim]

I hope that it was Mimi Keene's decision to go. I know Kathy's coming back even with her, Ian and Bobby are not a lot to show for the Beales. They're as depleted as they were in Kirkwood times and we all know what a disaster he was for the show.

Dominic wants rid of all these characters but I wish he would time things better. Kat missing Jean's wedding for instance was odd, and her own exit rushed. Now Cindy and Liam are out of the door a few days before their GCSE results.

[lizann]

sharon knows

sounds like Kathy wants to protect gavin and turn herself in wonder for what

[lizann]

sharon knows

sounds like Kathy wants to protect gavin and turn herself in wonder for what

[Glen1]

With Sharon in the loop about Bobby, the undeleted video, and Marcus on the case. This must surely be bringing closure to the Lucy Beale murder at long last. Hope Bobby finally goes to the police and confesses.

[parkerman]

Hope Bobby finally goes to the police and confesses.
Bobby doesn't know he did it. Apart from the police he will soon be the only person on the Square who doesn't!

[maidmarian]

how did I guess when I was scanning down
right hand column on forum thar thus post
would be from you parkerman!
But you are correct! Very correct!

[maidmarian]

Dupl

[Glen1]

Always living in hope ,thought there might be a chance Bobby would see the video ,giving a reason for Jane not being able to delete it.

[parkerman]

Talking of which, how hard is it to delete an email? I think it must be harder to get an error message when trying to delete one than actually delete one.

[lizann]

Talking of which, how hard is it to delete an email? I think it must be harder to get an error message when trying to delete one than actually delete one.

did ian delete it

[lizann]

Talking of which, how hard is it to delete an email? I think it must be harder to get an error message when trying to delete one than actually delete one.

did ian delete it

[maidmarian]

Talking of which, how hard is it to delete an email? I think it must be harder to get an error message when trying to delete one than actually delete one.

Quite easy from inbox -but then goes into
trash- then somewhere else etc etc.
Thats my experience-so far.

But I thought even when you thought it
was gone -things including emails could
be brought back by tech experts
eg police in criminal matters
and employers etc in case of internal fraud
or misuse.

[maidmarian]

Talking of which, how hard is it to delete an email? I think it must be harder to get an error message when trying to delete one than actually delete one.

Quite easy from inbox -but then goes into
trash- then somewhere else etc etc.
Thats my experience-so far.

But I thought even when you thought it
was gone -things including emails could
be brought back by tech experts
eg police in criminal matters
and employers etc in case of internal fraud
or misuse.

[parkerman]

did ian delete it
yes

Quite easy from inbox -but then goes into
trash- then somewhere else etc etc.
Thats my experience-so far.

But I thought even when you thought it
was gone -things including emails could
be brought back by tech experts
eg police in criminal matters
and employers etc in case of internal fraud
or misuse.

Oh yes, it can be resurrected if necessary.

[Dazzle]

Really good episode tonight. :thumbsup:

Jane really put her foot in it with Sharon, who up until then seemed convinced by the explanation she'd been given for Cindy's video. Will Sharon be prepared to allow Max to go down for Lucy's murder? It sounds like Marcus Christie's involvement is going to make Max's trial unmissable!


sounds like Kathy wants to protect gavin and turn herself in wonder for what

What I got from that scene was she wanted to turn herself in for faking her death - but there might be more to it.

I was disappointed that Phil made it obvious that it was Kathy's own decision to die and that she wasn't forced into it. I hope it'll make more sense when the whole truth is revealed because I can't see fans (including myself) accepting she'd allow her sons to believe she was dead except under extreme circumstances.

I hope that "moment" between Kathy and Phil wasn't foreshadowing a relationship between them after the way he treated her when they were married... :thumbsdow

A few phrases Les used tonight, like he needed an "outlet" and he could "be himself" with Claudette, fits in nicely with the theory we were discussing earlier today on the "Les and Pam Coker" thread. He made a mistake not confessing the truth (whatever it is) when he had the chance.

Pam's scenes with Carol were excellent.

[tammyy2j]

I am glad Sharon didn't drop it and kept pushing at Jane who caught herself out

The stress is going to make Jane ill, maybe have a heart attack

Sharon make a comment previously that even if it were her own son Denny she would turn him in (when thinking Ben killed Lucy) now let's see if she will do the same to Bobby and get Max released

I wish Les would tell Pam the whole truth, I expect we will see him in full lady gear soon :p

[Glen1]

Apols guys didn't realise Ian had deleted the video ...:o

[Dazzle]

I wish Les would tell Pam the whole truth, I expect we will see him in full lady gear soon :p

If that happens, I hope it'll be written sensitively. I'd hate for Les to be a laughing stock. :(


Apols guys didn't realise Ian had deleted the video ...:o

If Ian's not technologically savvie, it could still be in the recycle bin/trash folder, so you might be right that it'll rear its ugly head again. Also, as Parkerman pointed out, it could still be retrieved even if permanently deleted.

[Glen1]

If Ian's not technologically savvie, it could still be in the recycle bin/trash folder, so you might be right that it'll rear it's ugly head again. Also, as Parkerman pointed out, it could still be retrieved even if permanently deleted.
Indeed, and maybe this combined with some teamwork from the interesting Marcus and Sharon duo, progress.

[xx_Dan_xx]

I can't imagine them needing the email. I'd imagine its going to go all down hill now. Jane clearly wants the truth to come out - telling Sharon the truth even when he first believed the whole "joke" angle.

I think Ian and Jane will get to a point, either by themselves or forced by others, that they'll explain to Bobby what happened and what he did and probably hand himself in with Bobby pleading guilty.

Problem is, when all this comes out, Ian, Jane and Bobby will go down. Would EE send Ian and Jane to prison?

[xx_Dan_xx]

.

[maidmarian]

I can't imagine them needing the email. I'd imagine its going to go all down hill now. Jane clearly wants the truth to come out - telling Sharon the truth even when he first believed the whole "joke" angle.

I think Ian and Jane will get to a point, either by themselves or forced by others, that they'll explain to Bobby what happened and what he did and probably hand himself in with Bobby pleading guilty.

Problem is, when all this comes out, Ian, Jane and Bobby will go down. Would EE send Ian and Jane to prison?

I dont know about all 3- but the actress playing
Jane has had various "breaks" in past at her
request.Not sure how many but some seemed
long.
Perhaps they can think.of a way to put
brunt of blame on her! With child actors
they often have breaks for educational
reasons.
Im.not sure thats what they will want to
do though.!!

[maidmarian]

dupl

[Dazzle]

Problem is, when all this comes out, Ian, Jane and Bobby will go down. Would EE send Ian and Jane to prison?

With Kathy due to re-enter his life, I think it's safe to assume Ian won't be going anywhere for the foreseeable future. If the truth comes out soon, there's no reason why the police have to find out Ian has known for months - meaning Jane alone could be imprisoned. She might even confess to the murder itself if Max is found guilty.

I've heard rumours that Kathy will become heavily involved in the Bobby storyline - which seems feasible given the timing. I wonder if she'll convince Jane and/or Ian to tell the truth? Maybe it'll be the big Christmas storyline?

[maidmarian]

With Kathy due to re-enter his life, I think it's safe to assume Ian won't be going anywhere for the foreseeable future. If the truth comes out soon, there's no reason why the police have to find out Ian has known for months - meaning Jane alone could be imprisoned. She might even confess to the murder itself if Max is found guilty.

I've heard rumours that Kathy will become heavily involved in the Bobby storyline - which seems feasible given the timing. I wonder if she'll convince Jane and/or Ian to tell the truth? Maybe it'll be the big Christmas storyline?

I would imagine that Kathy would become
involved and want to do the right thing and
could be a good Christmas story. She has
got her re- appearance to explain and
problems?? with/about Gavin to deal with tho!

The difficulty might be stretching it out
til Christmas whilst writing the story in
a believable way. So many people seem
to know -so theres keeping the rumours
under control and police not getting to
know too soon( on past performace that
might be TOO difficult!)

But theres keeping Bobby "under control"
and him not doing things to draw attention
to himself( thats while keeping him in the
character/personality they have deemed/
defined to explain his actions so far.!)

I could see it becoming repititious?
but we do have Maxs trial and Marcus Christie
to look forward too!

I do think if just one person is "blamed" it will
be Jane and that may suit the actress if
she wants another break( as I mentioned
in an earlier post) but thats just supposition.!

[maidmarian]

Dupl

[xx_Dan_xx]

With Kathy due to re-enter his life, I think it's safe to assume Ian won't be going anywhere for the foreseeable future. If the truth comes out soon, there's no reason why the police have to find out Ian has known for months - meaning Jane alone could be imprisoned. She might even confess to the murder itself if Max is found guilty.

I've heard rumours that Kathy will become heavily involved in the Bobby storyline - which seems feasible given the timing. I wonder if she'll convince Jane and/or Ian to tell the truth? Maybe it'll be the big Christmas storyline?

You're probably right but this would mean Sharon will keep quiet. Bit annoying.

[xx_Dan_xx]

.

[Dazzle]

You're probably right...

Actually I'm wrong! :D

Your post made me think and, after doing a bit of digging, I've discovered:

that Adam Woodyatt's doing panto this Christmas - which means Ian will likely be absent for a couple of months early in the New Year.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/s2/eastenders/news/a637847/eastenders-star-adam-woodyatt-to-star-in-christmas-pantomime.html#~plV21xlsMvnn3z

I've no idea how long Ian would get for perverting the course of justice, but is two months enough time if he got out early on good behaviour? Maybe he has a breakdown and does a disappearing act with the stress over Jane/Bobby and Kathy's reappearance?

[Glen1]

Actually I'm wrong! :D

Your post made me think and, after doing a bit of digging, I've discovered:

that Adam Woodyatt's doing panto this Christmas - which means Ian will likely be absent for a couple of months early in the New Year.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/s2/eastenders/news/a637847/eastenders-star-adam-woodyatt-to-star-in-christmas-pantomime.html#~plV21xlsMvnn3z (\\"http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/s2/eastenders/news/a637847/eastenders-star-adam-woodyatt-to-star-in-christmas-pantomime.html#~plV21xlsMvnn3z\\")

I've no idea how long Ian would get for perverting the course of justice, but is two months enough time if he got out early on good behaviour? Maybe he has a breakdown and does a disappearing act with the stress over Jane/Bobby and Kathy's reappearance?Very informative post Dazzle. Average 4 to 18 mths but can be life depending on circs. I don't think he normally does the activity you mention, at that time. Might be answering a few questions ..

[Dazzle]

Average 4 to 18 mths but can be life depending on circs.

That could fit then if he got the minimum sentence (which is a possibility since he wasn't involved from the start like Jane was).

[Glen1]

That could fit then if he got the minimum sentence (which is a possibility since he wasn't involved from the start like Jane was). Absolutely, Steve MacFadden normally off 3 to 4 mths for the same reason.

[parkerman]

Doesn't he have a breakdown in October? That would fit. The pantomime run is from December 5 to January 3.

[Glen1]

Doesn't he have a breakdown in October? That would fit. The pantomime run is from December 5 to January 3. Might at a push ..:p..:)

[Dazzle]

Doesn't he have a breakdown in October? That would fit. The pantomime run is from December 5 to January 3.

I think they usually film 6-8 weeks ahead, so Adam's absence from the set from early December would translate to Ian's absence in early 2016. I think it's possible he'll be off for longer than a month due to rehearsal time.

[xx_Dan_xx]

I think they usually film 6-8 weeks ahead, so Adam's absence from the set from early December would translate to Ian's absence in early 2016. I think it's possible he'll be off for longer than a month due to rehearsal time.

What about rehearsals for the Panto? I'd imagine there must be some conflict with EE filming? He might even be written out (temp) earlier?

Bit awkward, finds out his Mum is alive and then disappears for a while.

[xx_Dan_xx]

.

[lizann]

thought jane was going to top herself in the bedroom

denny is back and acting a brat bully again

sharon's fascination with k will overshadow her deciding not to tell the cops on bobby

[lizann]

thought jane was going to top herself in the bedroom

denny is back and acting a brat bully again

sharon's fascination with k will overshadow her deciding not to tell the cops on bobby

[parkerman]

I'm still finding it a bit unbelievable that Lauren and Peter haven't heard about what's going on. Or, if they have, that Lauren hasn't said anything about it.

[tammyy2j]

I'm still finding it a bit unbelievable that Lauren and Peter haven't heard about what's going on. Or, if they have, that Lauren hasn't said anything about it.

Yes I can't believe Lauren has not been in contact in some way with her mother, Abi, Fatboy or Whitney

I hope Sharon goes to the police as I think this storyline has gone on far too long

[Dazzle]

I'm very glad Sharon's so conflicted about Bobby. She's always been a decent person so it'd be out of character if she were to accept the situation. And I was very pleased she called Ian and Jane out on their hypocrisy about Denny! :clap:


What about rehearsals for the Panto? I'd imagine there must be some conflict with EE filming? He might even be written out (temp) earlier?

Bit awkward, finds out his Mum is alive and then disappears for a while.

It's impossible to predict the exact timing or duration of Ian's absence. Steve McFadden did panto last year and seemed to be absent for ages - it felt like at least a couple of months to me. I think Phil was arrested shortly after the car crash on New Year's Day. He apparently filmed the prison scenes before he left, so Adam could do something similar meaning Ian wouldn't be completely off our screens during that time. It's even possible Ian won't go anywhere but just won't appear much.

The way things are going, Ian, Jane and Sharon won't be able to hold it together until Christmas anyway. Well, we know for a fact Ian won't be able to...

sharon's fascination with k will overshadow her deciding not to tell the cops on bobby

I thought she was still undecided, but Ian said she'd keep quiet to stop Jane from cracking up. I agree that "K" will likely take Sharon's mind off the Bobby issue though.


I'm still finding it a bit unbelievable that Lauren and Peter haven't heard about what's going on. Or, if they have, that Lauren hasn't said anything about it.

The writers seen to be ignoring this elephant in the room at the moment. Perhaps because they can't think of a convincing excuse for why Lauren wouldn't immediately contact the police if she found out?

[lizann]

so far to me ian is acting fine but Jane not she is cracking up

[Dazzle]

so far to me ian is acting fine but Jane not she is cracking up

Something could happen to worsen Ian's state of mind though.

[lizann]

Something could happen to worsen Ian's state of mind though.

jane or bobby arrest or can bobby even be arrested at his age

[lizann]

Something could happen to worsen Ian's state of mind though.

jane or bobby arrest or can bobby even be arrested at his age

[parkerman]

Yes. The age of criminal responsibility is 10.

[lizann]

marcus could contact lauren or he is pointing suspicion on her

[parkerman]

marcus could contact lauren or he is pointing suspicion on her
Good thinking. She'd certainly have to respond to that!

[Glen1]

I think Lizann and Parkerman you will both be proved spot on. Marcus certainly seemed to read right through Janes' facial expression. Lauren surely must be the starting point.

[Dazzle]

I got the feeling that Marcus was more interested in Jane than the video. He seemed to me to have an agenda and to be sizing her up. I'm looking forward to seeing what he has up his sleeve.

Tense scenes with Phil, Kathy, Sharon and Ian at the train station. It's good to finally set eyes on Gavin at last.

[tammyy2j]

I found the scene at the train station where Kathy saw Ian and Sharon ridiculous to be honest she was only a few feet away from them

Gavin don't look at all to be totally innocent and good in whatever Kathy is mixed up in

I hoped Lucy's murderer storyline with Bobby don't continue too longer, he don't want to be the house with only Ian and Jane who keep sending him upstairs when talking he must know something is up

I like that Marcus is getting straight in his defence of Max and investigating hopefully he contacts Lauren

[Dazzle]

I found the scene at the train station where Kathy saw Ian and Sharon ridiculous to be honest she was only a few feet away from them

It was a bit ridiculous because it was so contrived (and because I knew Ian wouldn't see Kathy yet), but I couldn't help but feel tense anyway. :p

[lizann]

gavin and his lovely hair look very old compared to kathy :p

[lizann]

so phil knows with 3 years kathy is alive after faking her death for insurance

[maidmarian]

gavin and his lovely hair look very old compared to kathy :p

Quite a few are looking old compared to
Kathy! There were comments a few days
ago about Ian & Jane !!

Perhaps she' ll launch a skin cream!!

[maidmarian]

gavin and his lovely hair look very old compared to kathy :p

Quite a few are looking old compared to
Kathy! There were comments a few days
ago about Ian & Jane !!

Perhaps she' ll launch a skin cream!!

[Dazzle]

Monday's episode was very well written but there were a couple of OMG moments for me:

Firstly, Stacey asking Ronnie if she'd ever done the wrong thing for the right reason immediately made me think she's lying about Martin being the father (and even worse that the baby's probably Kush's :wall:). It would explain why she's so reluctant to get Martin involved with the pregnancy. I really, really hope I've got the wrong end of the stick or I'll be very cross! :angry:

Secondly, Phil saying Kathy and Gavin faked their deaths for the insurance money! There better damn well be a more imaginative explanation (that Phil's still in the dark about) to explain why Kathy would do something so out of character as to abandon her sons... :angry:

I liked what Ronnie said about it all blowing up in Phil's face. He's known Kathy's alive for three years! How could Ben ever forgive him for keeping that knowledge from him? :wall:

[maidmarian]

Monday's episode was very well written but there were a couple of OMG moments for me:

Firstly, Stacey asking Ronnie if she'd ever done the wrong thing for the right reason immediately made me think she's lying about Martin being the father (and even worse that the baby's probably Kush's :wall:). It would explain why she's so reluctant to get Martin involved with the pregnancy. I really, really hope I've got the wrong end of the stick or I'll be very cross! :angry:

Secondly, Phil saying Kathy and Gavin faked their deaths for the insurance money! There better damn well be a more imaginative explanation (that Phil's still in the dark about) to explain why Kathy would do something so out of character as to abandon her sons... :angry:

I liked what Ronnie said about it all blowing up in Phil's face. He's known Kathy's alive for three years! How could Ben ever forgive him for keeping that knowledge from him? :wall:

On one level I can believe its "just" insurance
money but on the other if it is -its going to
be a real.let-down.
Apart from as you say -it being out of
character for Kathy -its just such a boring
mundane reason.
Various people inc Adam Woodyatt said
things like dramatic/all fitting together
and making sense/ something you wouldnt
think of( cant remember all)
so I thought it was going to be totally
unexpected and for once was content to
let it unfold-but insurance!!??

Not usually keen on Ronnie but liked
her tonight.

And you are probably right about Stacey-
unless shes thinking of termination -
but not likely and possibly too late!

[maidmarian]

dupl

[Dazzle]

On one level I can believe its "just" insurance
money but on the other if it is -its going to
be a real.let-down.
Apart from as you say -it being out of
character for Kathy -its just such a boring
mundane reason.
Various people inc Adam Woodyatt said
things like dramatic/all fitting together
and making sense/ something you wouldnt
think of( cant remember all)
so I thought it was going to be totally
unexpected and for once was content to
let it unfold-but insurance!!??

Ronnie mentioned the canoe guy who faked his death for the insurance (and appears to have had no conscience about abandoning his sons) tonight, so at least there's a real-life precedence for such selfish behaviour. However, I'm hoping DTC realises most EE fans won't accept Kathy willingly abandoning Ian and Ben.

I don't really mind if the explanation's "bonkers" as long as it doesn't mean Kathy acted totally out of character. The Kathy we knew would never have willingly left a young Ben in Phil's care.

[tammyy2j]

I hope Martin is the father of Stacey's baby and not Kush

I like new Martin more and more plus him and Stacey are a good match

What happened Martin's hand, is this for storyline or a real life incident?

[sarah c]

What happened Martin's hand, is this for storyline or a real life incident?

it was said he fell down drunk, ?? but that couldve been to cover a real life incident as the plaster looked convincing

[Dazzle]

What happened Martin's hand, is this for storyline or a real life incident?

It was a real life accident. James cut his hand very badly when cooking:

http://www.soapsquawk.co.uk/news/eastenders-star-james-bye-impales-himself-on-a-knife.php#results

He didn't seem to be acting his sheepishness about the accident... :D

[tammyy2j]

Who was the comedian Mick hired for Kush's stag, a friend of Stan's?

[Dazzle]

Who was the comedian Mick hired for Kush's stag, a friend of Stan's?

I think he just enjoyed his jokes. :D

[tammyy2j]

I think he just enjoyed his jokes. :D

More for Mick himself than Kush

[Dazzle]

More for Mick himself than Kush

He seemed a bit fed up by the end of the episode though. :D

Stan was also a fan (which is why he was mentioned).

[tammyy2j]

Poor Shabham but why didn't she speak up sooner and go to the hospital, Mas with all his lady troubles

[Dazzle]

Poor Shabham but why didn't she speak up sooner and go to the hospital

Maybe she thought it was already too late, or perhaps she was in denial. I remember rushing to the hospital in terror when I hadn't felt my baby move for a few days. Luckily in my case the everything was fine, but I find I find the whole subject of stillbirth distressing. I was traumatised when it happened to Corrie's Maria. I feel so sorry for Shabnam. :crying:

[lizann]

that scottish doctor manner was rude and blunt to shabham

[Dazzle]

that scottish doctor manner was rude and blunt to shabham

Agreed, and I thought the actor was way too chirpy to be giving such terrible news.

I'm glad we're not going to have to witness Shabnam giving birth to her dead baby like we did Corrie's Maria. :crying:

[Dazzle]

I'm glad we're not going to have to witness Shabnam giving birth to her dead baby like we did Corrie's Maria. :crying:

Unfortunately, I spoke too soon about not seeing Shabnam give birth. I thought it would happen over the weekend and be over by Monday's episode, but apparently not:

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-08-28/eastenders-star-rakhee-thakrar-on-shabnams-stillbirth-trauma---her-coping-mechanism-is-to-shut-everyone-out-and-run-away

[tammyy2j]

Maybe she thought it was already too late, or perhaps she was in denial. I remember rushing to the hospital in terror when I hadn't felt my baby move for a few days. Luckily in my case the everything was fine, but I find I find the whole subject of stillbirth distressing. I was traumatised when it happened to Corrie's Maria. I feel so sorry for Shabnam. :crying:

I am happy to hear all was well for you Dazzle

I think Shabham and Mas should have gone straight to the hospital, I think maybe part of Shabham still may not have wanted this baby

[Dazzle]

I think Shabham and Mas should have gone straight to the hospital, I think maybe part of Shabham still may not have wanted this baby

From what was said on Friday, it'd been less than 24 hours since she'd noticed the baby move. She seemed devastated to me. :(

[Perdita]

Well done to EE, I am in floods of tears ....Very well acted by all

[tammyy2j]

Well done to EE, I am in floods of tears ....Very well acted by all

It was heartbreaking to watch but very well acted by all

[Glen1]

Well done to EE, I am in floods of tears ....Very well acted by all
Absolutely Perdita, one of the most moving episodes for a long time so well written and acted by all concerned. The final touch with the wee foot and hand prints ,what can be said ,very emotional .

[Dazzle]

Heartbreaking. :(

I usually skip upsetting episodes but couldn't bring myself to miss this one for some reason. I'm glad I didn't even though I still feel sad. Eastenders at its very best.

[tammyy2j]

I hope this brings Shabham and Kush closer instead of him chasing after Stacey, as they make a good couple

It is a shame also Zainab didn't return but at least Tamwar mentioned her and Syed

[maidmarian]

I hope this brings Shabham and Kush closer instead of him chasing after Stacey, as they make a good couple

It is a shame also Zainab didn't return but at least Tamwar mentioned her and Syed

It was a moving scene - very well acted.
I hope Kush doesnt go.after Stacey ...
but not sure -this being a soap.

Im.sorry to say that if Zainab had returned
and been her usual.OTT self -it would
have spoilt the sensitivity of the scene-
for me anyway!

She seems to only have one setting.
But fortunately -it didnt happen!

[maidmarian]

dupl

[tammyy2j]

It was a moving scene - very well acted.
I hope Kush doesnt go.after Stacey ...
but not sure -this being a soap.

Im.sorry to say that if Zainab had returned
and been her usual.OTT self -it would
have spoilt the sensitivity of the scene-
for me anyway!

She seems to only have one setting.
But fortunately -it didnt happen!

I like that she was mentioned or showed Tamwar talking on the phone to her and Syed

She is Shabham's mother, she needs all her family's support as does Kush

[maidmarian]

I like that she was mentioned or showed Tamwar talking on the phone to her and Syed

She is Shabham's mother, she needs all her family's support as does Kush

Usually I would agree - that a mother would
be a main.source of support in circumstances
like these- but not when.played as this
character is and based on previous form!
(my opinion only.of course)

[maidmarian]

dupl

[Dazzle]

Im.sorry to say that if Zainab had returned
and been her usual.OTT self -it would
have spoilt the sensitivity of the scene-
for me anyway!

It was bad enough to hear from Tamwar that she said something along the lines that at least now the wedding would be respectable... :thumbsdow

I think Zainab's a good character and I'd be glad to see her return, but that comment seemed to have undone all the character development of her last stint. :wall:

[storyseeker1]

I can't believe EE wouldn't have Zainab come back. I mean, especially now! Her daughter was expecting a baby, Shabs already has a daughter that's been found, now Shabs has lost the baby... If those aren't excuses for a mother to return and be there for her own child, then what is???

[Dazzle]

I can't believe EE wouldn't have Zainab come back. I mean, especially now! Her daughter was expecting a baby, Shabs already has a daughter that's been found, now Shabs has lost the baby... If those aren't excuses for a mother to return and be there for her own child, then what is???

Ha ha...you've found us! :thumbsup:

I know, it's incredibly contrived that Zainab wasn't there. Maybe saying a close relative was dying or something would have made it more believable?

To be fair to DTC, I have heard he tried to get Nina Wadia back but she was too busy.

[lizann]

I hope this brings Shabham and Kush closer instead of him chasing after Stacey, as they make a good couple

It is a shame also Zainab didn't return but at least Tamwar mentioned her and Syed

stacey needs to stop sniffing around kush

what did shabham name the baby?

[Dazzle]

What a harrowing episode again. Shabnam's grief feels so real. It went right through me when she screamed at the dinner table. I think I'd have done much the same in her position having to listen to Carmel rambling on so inappropriately about the wedding.

I found Shabnam and Kush's row at the end difficult to watch too. Well done to the actors because it really didn't feel as if they were pretending.


what did shabham name the baby?

Zaair :(

[parkerman]

If ever you want to find an old rare record, just ask Winston.:cheer:

[maidmarian]

[QUOTE=Dazzle;829617]What a harrowing episode again. Shabnam's grief feels so real. It went right through me when she screamed at the dinner table. I think I'd have done much the same in her position having to listen to Carmel rambling on so inappropriately about the wedding.

I found Shabnam and Kush's row at the end difficult to watch too. Well done to the actors because it really didn't feel as if they
pretending.

I do feel great sympathy for Shabnam.
As well as dealing with the still birth - which
is very traumatic- I wonder if that has caused
her to think again about the birth of Jade and
all the following events.
Plus Carmel and possibily past problems in
her own family. It must be unbearable for
her.I was very impressed by the interview
the actress gave and she is obviously
determined to give the storyline the seriousess
it deserves.

[maidmarian]

[QUOTE=Dazzle;829617]What a harrowing episode again. Shabnam's grief feels so real. It went right through me when she screamed at the dinner table. I think I'd have done much the same in her position having to listen to Carmel rambling on so inappropriately about the wedding.

I found Shabnam and Kush's row at the end difficult to watch too. Well done to the actors because it really didn't feel as if they
pretending.

I do feel great sympathy for Shabnam.
As well as dealing with the still birth - which
is very traumatic- I wonder if that has caused
her to think again about the birth of Jade and
all the following events.
Plus Carmel and possibily past problems in
her own family. It must be unbearable for
her.I was very impressed by the interview
the actress gave and she is obviously
determined to give the storyline the seriousess
it deserves.

[tammyy2j]

I believed Kush when he told Carmel he really loves Shabham, I hope they work out

[Dazzle]

I believed Kush when he told Carmel he really loves Shabham, I hope they work out

I also believed him, and I was quite surprised because I thought he was still a bit ambivalent about her. I hope they make it too.

[storyseeker1]

I also believed him, and I was quite surprised because I thought he was still a bit ambivalent about her. I hope they make it too.

Knowing EE, though, they probably won't. :C

[tammyy2j]

Babe and Queenie were selling babies illegally and now both don't look to have any money

[storyseeker1]

The way the episode was going, I was almost starting to think that EE were going to use the same idea twice, by saying that Babe and Queenie were planning to sell Mick as soon as he was born, that everything was set, but then Shirley ended up having twins, and the couple only wanted one and they didn't have time to find another buyer.

[Dazzle]

I'm loving seeing Aunt Babe again, and I like the fact none of us was able to guess her dark secret. I wonder if they were doing it out of the kindness of their hearts or to make money? I expect it'll turn out to be the latter (although it certainly didn't make them rich as tammyy2j says). I've enjoyed spending time with the Carters again.

EE is back on form at the moment. If only Linda would get justice and Dean would leave (one way or another), I'd be over the moon with it.

I think Masood and Carmel are falling for each other... :wub:


The way the episode was going, I was almost starting to think that EE were going to use the same idea twice, by saying that Babe and Queenie were planning to sell Mick as soon as he was born, that everything was set, but then Shirley ended up having twins, and the couple only wanted one and they didn't have time to find another buyer.

That would have been a twist too far after the Kat revelation! :D

[lizann]

stan out to sea

[maidmarian]

I'm loving seeing Aunt Babe again, and I like the fact none of us was able to guess her dark secret. I wonder if they were doing it out of the kindness of their hearts or to make money? I expect it'll turn out to be the latter (although it certainly didn't make them rich as tammyy2j says). I've enjoyed spending time with the Carters again.

EE is back on form at the moment. If only Linda would get justice and Dean would leave (one way or another), I'd be over the moon with it.

I think Masood and Carmel are falling for each other... :wub:



That would have been a twist too far after the Kat revelation! :D

as you say no one guessed Aunt Babes secret and
it is a shocking one. Havent seen Fridays episode yet-
so dont know if any more developments in it?

The writers do seem to have a bit of a trend at
mo of basing stories on.real life events- which
is fair enough I suppose as " There is nothing
new under the sun"

But they also seem to be picking stories from
some time ago but that someone else has relatively
recently made a film/tv prog about.
Canoe man - insurance scams
Selling Babies-Philomena -
Bobbys story - We need to talk about Kevin.
(producer quite up front about that)

none are exact replicas - but might like
to take a story someone else hasnt used
recently. Perhaps it saves money on research!?

[maidmarian]

I'm loving seeing Aunt Babe again, and I like the fact none of us was able to guess her dark secret. I wonder if they were doing it out of the kindness of their hearts or to make money? I expect it'll turn out to be the latter (although it certainly didn't make them rich as tammyy2j says). I've enjoyed spending time with the Carters again.

EE is back on form at the moment. If only Linda would get justice and Dean would leave (one way or another), I'd be over the moon with it.

I think Masood and Carmel are falling for each other... :wub:



That would have been a twist too far after the Kat revelation! :D

as you say no one guessed Aunt Babes secret and
it is a shocking one. Havent seen Fridays episode
-yet-.so dont know if any more developments
in it.

The writers do seem to have a bit of a trend at
mo of basing stories on.real life events- which
is fair enough I suppose as " There is nothing
new under the sun"

But they also seem to be picking stories from
some time ago but that someone else has
relatively recently made a film/tv prog about.
Canoe man - insurance scams
Selling Babies-Philomena -
Bobbys story - We need to talk about Kevin.
(producer quite up front about that)

none are exact replicas - but might like
to take a story someone else hasnt used
recently. Perhaps it saves money on research!?

[Ruffed_lemur]

A very good episode last night. Very touching between Shirley and Mick.

[storyseeker1]

I loved last night. It's nice to see Nick and Shirley making up. I thought the end where he called her mum was especially sweet. I can't believe how quickly they were to forgive Babe, though. Though I do enjoy her character. I wonder if we'll ever see any of those girls from her photo album show up?

[Dazzle]

I loved last night. It's nice to see Nick and Shirley making up. I thought the end where he called her mum was especially sweet. I can't believe how quickly they were to forgive Babe, though. Though I do enjoy her character. I wonder if we'll ever see any of those girls from her photo album show up?

While I enjoyed the episode and the ceasefire between the Carters, Mick and Shirley's tender reconciliation was ruined for me by the presence of Dean in the back of my mind.

How could Mick have a relationship with Shirley while she still backs Dean over Linda, and after the spiteful way she's behaved since the rape reveal? It would be a difficult thing to forgive even if she'd apologized profusely and admitted her error, let alone while she's still living with Dean and backing him to the hilt.

It's good to see Babe returning to the square, but I hope that's not the end of the baby selling storyline. There needs to be repercussions! Like you storyseeker1, I'm left wondering if we'll meet some of those girls and/or their babies in the future.

[parkerman]

Perhaps Sharon is one of the babies!

[Dazzle]

Perhaps Sharon is one of the babies!

Good thinking! Stranger things have happened in Eastenders...much stranger things in fact. :D

[maidmarian]

Perhaps Sharon is one of the babies!

yes-I think there has to be a further development
of story and involving character(s) important
in.EE and to the viewers.
I keep thinking we have Sharons parentage
sorted now- then something else happens!!

Most of past speculation is regarding Sharons
natural father but I wonder about her natural
mother.Carol Hanley did have other children
- Sharons half -siblings!?.

The character is deceased now ( relatively
recently).- so they could "retcon" without
too much bother!

[maidmarian]

dupl

[tammyy2j]

I enjoyed the Carters and Aunt Babe, even though she manipulates them all, she does love the family as her own so I am glad she is coming back to live with them

I also like how Vincent is trying to fit in with Patrick and Denise for baby Pearl (who is so adorable) and Kim, it is shame he is lusting after Ronnie again, he works much better with Kim

[lizann]

lee and whitney are so boring, cant get into lee depression storyline

good to have dot free and home and now a new roommate for her in cora

a year since linda rape and nothing done to dean :angry:

does ronnie want to get away from charlie and matthew

[Dazzle]

lee and whitney are so boring, cant get into lee depression storyline

I'm finding it OK, but it's not a patch on Simon's Gregson's portrayal of depression so far. I am glad Whitney's being given something to do though.


good to have dot free and home and now a new roommate for her in cora

And all poor Dot wanted was some peace and quiet... :D


a year since linda rape and nothing done to dean :angry:

:angry: :angry: :angry:


does ronnie want to get away from charlie and matthew

She wants to get away from Charlie. She seems singularly disinterested in her longed-for child... :searchme:

[tammyy2j]

Vincent should stay with Kim and Pearl and stop chasing Ronnie

[lizann]

dot knows her prison talk, she is proper tough now :p

[tammyy2j]

Vincent you idiot :angry:

Does Phil think Ian and Jane know Kathy is alive and that is why he was way over the top with Jane as he wants to protect Ben

[storyseeker1]

Vincent you idiot :angry:

Does Phil think Ian and Jane know Kathy is alive and that is why he was way over the top with Jane as he wants to protect Ben

I agree. Vincent is a complete idiot for wanting to risk everything for Ronnie. Seriously, are all the couples on EE idiots??? Stacey with Kush Max, and previously with Max. Vincent with Ronnie. Hasn't anybody on this show ever heard of commitment?

Phil scared me at the end of tonight's ep. The way he grabbed Jane made me think he was gonna strangle her at first.

[Dazzle]

Phil scared me at the end of tonight's ep. The way he grabbed Jane made me think he was gonna strangle her at first.

Phil's definitely very scary when he loses it, which is why he makes a convincing hard man even though he looks physically unfit. Vincent's the opposite in my view. I like him as part of the Fox family, and he has a bit of an edge, but he hasn't convinced me as a villain yet - despite his relative youth and physical advantages compared to Phil.

I'm so annoyed they've axed Charlie - who was very believable as a possible criminal and all-round nasty piece of work when he first arrived in Albert Square - so that Ronnie can get with Vincent! They've turned Charlie into an irritating wet rag for some unkown reason. :angry:

[lizann]

phil was scary with jane he needs to know what is going on

[parkerman]

How on earth would Sharon know that Jane was planning to take the train to Kent? At what point did they discuss her mode of transport?

[tammyy2j]

Phil had a point about Bobby being dangerous but Jane and Sharon managed to get him also to protect Bobby :angry:

Vincent's mother was good confronting Vincent and Ronnie, I think Vincent wants them caught out and Matthew is probably better with Charlie as he wants him I don't think Ronnie really does

[Dazzle]

I'm not ashamed to say the Linda/Nancy scenes brought a tear to my eye. It's about time Linda's state of mind was addressed.

Anyone notice Kathy had a bruise on her forehead? Punishment from Gavin for her disobedience? :hmm:


How on earth would Sharon know that Jane was planning to take the train to Kent? At what point did they discuss her mode of transport?

When they'd left the Beale house, Sharon commented to Phil that Jane seemed better after talking to Bobby, so they were in the house during the entire phone conversation. Presumably travel arrangements were discussed during the call.


Phil had a point about Bobby being dangerous but Jane and Sharon managed to get him also to protect Bobby :angry:

I didn't expect it to, but the writing for the Jane/Phil/Sharon scenes made me believe those characters would conspire to keep the secret (at least for now). Comparing Bobby to a young Ben really pulled on a guilty Phil's heartstrings, plus he's no fan of Max's after the latter conned Ben.


...Matthew is probably better with Charlie as he wants him I don't think Ronnie really does

It's true that Ronnie appears indifferent to Matthew. How will that be explained when she's been desperate for a child for so long? Maybe it's because she was in a coma for months so never properly bonded with him? :searchme:

You're right that Matthew would be better off with his dad who truly loves him.

[tammyy2j]

I liked Tracey being part of today's show and having lines

Did Gavin know Archie or also does he know the Square, like was he there before?

It seems him and Kathy are on the run from someone else more dangerous

[storyseeker1]

Well, I'm glad to see they've added a bit more to the story than just Kathy suffering at the hands of an abusive and controlling husband. If their lives really are in danger then I can understand more now why she left Ian and Ben.

Kathy should be proud of herself for walking away, but it's like Phil said, "It's only just beginning". Men like Gavin never let those they consider their possessions go, and EE warned us that he's gonna be one of the darkest characters we've seen in a long while.

So I guess Ronnie has finally made a decision over her marriage. I can't say I'm surprised, as it didn't look like she had any feelings for him for a while.

[Dazzle]

I liked Tracey being part of today's show and having lines

So did I. Jane Slaughter was very good.


Did Gavin know Archie or also does he know the Square, like was he there before?

I've read that Kathy met Gavin through her brother. If that's true, it seems likely he used to live in the area.

The old photo he looked at was of him (looking surprisingly chirpy) and four other men (presumably his old gang back in the day). Two of them could have been Eric and Archie Mitchell. One of the men was black, so could have been Vincent's father (we know the Hubbards and Mitchells go way back).


It seems him and Kathy are on the run from someone else more dangerous

I wouldn't be surprised if whoever they're running from no longer pose a danger to Kathy's family (if they ever did). He might be saying it just to control her.

I thought Paul Nicholas was very convincing as a sinister, Archie Mitchell type villain.

I believe Kathy is now officially a regular character again.

[parkerman]

I've read that Kathy met Gavin through her brother. If that's true, it seems likely he used to live in the area.

The old photo he looked at was of him (looking surprisingly chirpy) and four other men (presumably his old gang back in the day). Two of them could have been Eric and Archie Mitchell. One of the men was black, so could have been Vincent's father (we know the Hubbards and Mitchells go way back).



This whole thing seems to be getting very incestuous with everyone knowing everyone else as well as possibly all being related to each other. Gavin certainly knows the Mitchells of old and especially Archie; the Hubbards have some sort of feud with the Mitchells, but what it is about we are uncertain exactly; Sharon could be Gavin's daughter; Gavin also seems to have known Pete Beale and Den Watts; Gavin may have known the Hubbards as well, if that photo does show Vincent's father. There seem to be a lot of tie-ups between Gavin, the Mitchells, the Hubbards and the Beales..........

[Dazzle]

Incestuous is the right word parkerman. I suppose at least we can't complain that no thought's been given to the character of Gavin and his connections to Albert Square. :D

Here's a link to the picture Gavin looked at:

https://mobile.twitter.com/bbceastenders/status/642416507453050880/photo/1


I've seen the first man on the left suggested as being Den Watts. I can see the resemblance although I'm not 100% sure. See this picture as a comparison: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7b/30/8a/7b308a7faa64d488b35fe16d7fda3e50.jpg

the next man is possibly Vincent's father

I've seen some people suggest the man in the middle is possibly Eric Mitchell because there's a resemblance to Phil

the next man along is definitely Ted Hills, Kathy's brother (it appears to have been photoshopped from this photo of Brian Croucher, the actor who played Ted Hills: http://www.cloveclub.com/wp-content/uploads/Brian-Croucher1.jpg

The man on the far right is obviously a young Gavin.


What does everyone else think of the photo?

[maidmarian]

Incestuous is the right word parkerman. I suppose at least we can't complain that no thought's been given to the character of Gavin and his connections to Albert Square. :D

Here's a link to the picture Gavin looked at:

https://mobile.twitter.com/bbceastenders/status/642416507453050880/photo/1 (\"https://mobile.twitter.com/bbceastenders/status/642416507453050880/photo/1\")


I've seen the first man on the left suggested as being Den Watts. I can see the resemblance although I'm not 100% sure. See this picture as a comparison: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7b/30/8a/7b308a7faa64d488b35fe16d7fda3e50.jpg (\"https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7b/30/8a/7b308a7faa64d488b35fe16d7fda3e50.jpg\")

the next man is possibly Vincent's father

I've seen some people suggest the man in the middle is possibly Eric Mitchell because there's a resemblance to Phil

the next man along is definitely Ted Hills, Kathy's brother (it appears to have been photoshopped from this photo of Brian Croucher, the actor who played Ted Hills: http://www.cloveclub.com/wp-content/uploads/Brian-Croucher1.jpg (\"http://www.cloveclub.com/wp-content/uploads/Brian-Croucher1.jpg\")

The man on the far right is obviously a young Gavin.


What does everyone else think of the photo?

You done much better than I could!!Dazzle

Gavin&Ted -yes

Den- very probably -nose similar -hair-line
different .That happens over time -but seems
lower in later pic - rather than higher.?

Vincent -Ive not really thought about his
fathers ethnicity !? I.think Id made an assumption
he was white. I dont know why because I.
dont usually assume- because of my nephew
- which I mentioned on here once!

Eric Mitchell - that was a surprise to
me - though I can see the resemblence.
I think Ive always had a mental.pic
of him being the same physical type
as Grant rather than Phil -but don't
know why!
So very well.deduced!!

[maidmarian]

dupl

[Dazzle]

You done much better than I could!!Dazzle

Aww thanks MM, but I can't take the credit because most of the above is taken from comments I've read on other sites. The only character I recognised straight away was Gavin; I wouldn't know Ted Hills from Adam... :o


Vincent -Ive not really thought about his
fathers ethnicity !? I.think Id made an assumption
he was white. I dont know why because I.
dont usually assume- because of my nephew
- which I mentioned on here once!

Funnily enough, I was discussing the possibility that Gavin could be Vincent's father* on another thread a few weeks ago. We haven't been told his ethnicity, so it being him in the photo is just speculation. If not, I think it's likely to be someone close to Vincent - possibly Claudette's brother?

* Maybe it would be easier to rule out characters who definitely couldn't be Gavin's children... :D

[lizann]

is sharon father in that picture

[Dazzle]

is sharon father in that picture

That's the million dollar question... :D

[parkerman]

is sharon father in that picture
Only if Gavin is in it!:ninja::D:hmm:

[Kim]

I had Thursday's episode on in the background while I was doing my nails. All I can say how does DTC think that this is good quality entertainment?

Friday's was better. Great to see Tracey with some dialogue. But surely DTC wouldn't need to keep sacking people if he wasn't wasting money on costly scenes like Kathy and Gavin in a helicoper. He has money, we got that looking at his car and his house in Notting Hill when Sharon went there.

So obvious that Gavin is Sharon's father. Sharon tells Ian that he's practically her brother; next scene is Gavin sitting in his car.

[Dazzle]

I had Thursday's episode on in the background while I was doing my nails. All I can say how does DTC think that this is good quality entertainment?

I enjoyed Thursday's episode. To be fair, it's easier to pick up on the negatives when you're not fully absorbed in the storyline. :p

[lizann]

kathy wanted ian and phil to have ben really dtc changing past for new storyline

sharon now knows 2 big secrets

so why did kathy leave her boys and fake her death still no clear explanation or logic

[lizann]

kathy wanted ian and phil to have ben really dtc changing past for new storyline

sharon now knows 2 big secrets

so why did kathy leave her boys and fake her death still no clear explanation or logic

[Kim]

kathy wanted ian and phil to have ben really dtc changing past for new storyline

sharon now knows 2 big secrets

so why did kathy leave her boys and fake her death still no clear explanation or logic

Couldn't agree more. Just months before her supposed death Kathy moved house and didn't even bother telling Phil or giving him a new contact number so that he could phone Ben. Then all of a sudden she wants him to have him! Gavin insisted on that now did he? I always thought the details we were given about the crash meant that it couldn't have been faked, but of course continuity or whether something is true to character doesn't count for anything any more.

I expected Kathy to come back thinking that Ben had spent the rest of his childhood with Ian, then go mad when she found out that Phil got him, brought Stella into his life and taught him violence.

Where is Billy? Didn't he and Peggy know Kathy was alive also?

Ronnie is so cruel. She didn't even bother to tell Charlie about Matthew for months and now she doesn't even bother to break it to him gently that she doesn't want to be with him any more. Her and Vincent do my head in and that opening scene of them was a particular low point on Thursday.

[tammyy2j]

Wow at Kathy and Sharon violent scene, didn't expect that, good showdown though

Sharon's initial shock as seeing Kathy was well played by Letitia Dean

I agree Ronnie was very cruel and blunt with Charlie, he should claim full custody of Matthew and get spousal support as Ronnie has more money than him, claim the house if he can

I forgot Billy and Peggy know Kathy is alive too

Good to have Lauren back, just don't let her too cover for Bobby

[parkerman]

Bit of a pathetic duff duff. We all know she knows who killed Lucy.

[tammyy2j]

Bit of a pathetic duff duff. We all know she knows who killed Lucy.

She should have gone straight to the police station than to the Beale house and get her innocent dad out

[Dazzle]

I loved Sharon's attitude towards Kathy. Considering she knows exactly how it feels having a parent fake their death (I'm glad that wasn't forgotten), her disgust rang very true. I think she's also probably correct that it would be best for Ian and Ben never to know of their mother's betrayal (but at the same time they do have a right to know).

Of course, Sharon doesn't understand at the moment how controlling Gavin is and that Kathy feared for her kid's lives.

I can't believe what Ronnie did to Charlie - what a cow! I also can't believe their roles have completely reversed in a couple of months. Ronnie was the sympathetic one and Charlie was the b*stard after his and Roxy's fling. I suppose it's true you'd never trust someone again after that, but she seems to be using it as an excuse to get rid of him. Infuriating! :angry:


kathy wanted ian and phil to have ben really dtc changing past for new storyline

I agree what Kathy said about leaving Ben to Phil and Ian's care isn't what happened. Wasn't he left to Ian's care but Phil fought for custody? I'm sure Kathy didn't want Phil as Ben's guardian. Kathy could be lying though, perhaps because she's in denial because she feels so guilty at abandoning her sons.


so why did kathy leave her boys and fake her death still no clear explanation or logic

We know the major points but not the details. Gavin owed some dangerous gangsters a lot of money and convinced Kathy their lives (and her whole family's) were in danger if they didn't fake their deaths. Gavin is sinister and controlling and Kathy was under his spell, so she believed him (that was made clear when they were sitting in the plane).

It's possible he made up the gangster story and just did it for the insurance money, but I'm pretty sure Kathy wouldn't have gone along with that if she'd known.


Bit of a pathetic duff duff. We all know she knows who killed Lucy.

Jane obviously missed that episode. :p

[storyseeker1]

Well, we've learned a little now about what happened to Kathy so far. We know Gavin is a controlling jerk, putting her through god knows what. We also know that apparently he's on the run from some bad people, and he told her she'd be putting her family in danger if she stayed. Though I wonder if that was really true, and he was just playing with her?

Sharon's obviously clueless about the kind of abuse that men like Gavin can do. Yeah, Kathy looked well, but looks can be deceiving.

I can understand some of Sharon's reaction, as she went through the same thing with her dad as I recall. But some of what she said sounded petty and childish to me. "They've got me now!" Like she's worried Kathy is gonna come back and take over. Personally I think Kathy should take over, as Phil's done a shoddy job with Ben by teaching him violence up to the point of him committing murder, and unaccepting of his homosexuality etc. And Sharon, while she comes across as a nice person, she is definitely not someone I would call mother of the year considering the way Denny is acting. I was close to cheering when Kathy finally got some of her spirit back and shoved Sharon. Sharon so needed a slap!

Kathy likes Abi's name, but I wonder what she'd say if she actually knew the circumstances of her and Ben's relationship? Not to mention what a freaky girl Abi is becoming.

[storyseeker1]

Jane obviously missed that episode. :p

I couldn't remember. I know Lauren knew the truth, and Peter knew that she knew, but did the rest of his family?

[lizann]

I couldn't remember. I know Lauren knew the truth, and Peter knew that she knew, but did the rest of his family?

peter told lauren the truth and i thought he told ian and jane he told her but that may be wrong

[lizann]

I couldn't remember. I know Lauren knew the truth, and Peter knew that she knew, but did the rest of his family?

peter told lauren the truth and i thought he told ian and jane he told her but that may be wrong

[Kim]

Bit of a pathetic duff duff. We all know she knows who killed Lucy.

I agree, although in fairness some were thinking that Peter wouldn't have told Lauren the whole truth as we didn't hear the words.

Strange that we had a whole scene without Jane noticing/commenting on the fact that Lauren is pregnant. Would have preferred "Stop covering for Bobby or Ian will never see his grandchild" myself.

[Rear window]

I loved Sharon's attitude towards Kathy. Considering she knows exactly how it feels having a parent fake their death (I'm glad that wasn't forgotten), her disgust rang very true. I think she's also probably correct that it would be best for Ian and Ben never to know of their mother's betrayal (but at the same time they do have a right to know).

Of course, Sharon doesn't understand at the moment how controlling Gavin is and that Kathy feared for her kid's lives.

I can't believe what Ronnie did to Charlie - what a cow! I also can't believe their roles have completely reversed in a couple of months. Ronnie was the sympathetic one and Charlie was the b*stard after his and Roxy's fling. I suppose it's true you'd never trust someone again after that, but she seems to be using it as an excuse to get rid of him. Infuriating! :angry:



I agree what Kathy said about leaving Ben to Phil and Ian's care isn't what happened. Wasn't he left to Ian's care but Phil fought for custody? I'm sure Kathy didn't want Phil as Ben's guardian. Kathy could be lying though, perhaps because she's in denial because she feels so guilty at abandoning her sons.



We know the major points but not the details. Gavin owed some dangerous gangsters a lot of money and convinced Kathy their lives (and her whole family's) were in danger if they didn't fake their deaths. Gavin is sinister and controlling and Kathy was under his spell, so she believed him (that was made clear when they were sitting in the plane).

It's possible he made up the gangster story and just did it for the insurance money, but I'm pretty sure Kathy wouldn't have gone along with that if she'd known.



So who would have got the insurance money if there was any? I'm pretty certain that insurance companies would look oddly at any requests for it to not go to family followed so closely by the 'deaths' ...
I don't remember much detail from the time it happened - I have a vague memory of Ian going to SA but that's it.

[Rear window]

We know the major points but not the details. Gavin owed some dangerous gangsters a lot of money and convinced Kathy their lives (and her whole family's) were in danger if they didn't fake their deaths. Gavin is sinister and controlling and Kathy was under his spell, so she believed him (that was made clear when they were sitting in the plane).

It's possible he made up the gangster story and just did it for the insurance money, but I'm pretty sure Kathy wouldn't have gone along with that if she'd known.



So who would have got the insurance money if there was any? I'm pretty certain that insurance companies would look oddly at any requests for it to not go to family followed so closely by the 'deaths' ...
I don't remember much detail from the time it happened - I have a vague memory of Ian going to SA but that's it.

[Kim]

So who would have got the insurance money if there was any? I'm pretty certain that insurance companies would look oddly at any requests for it to not go to family followed so closely by the 'deaths' ...
I don't remember much detail from the time it happened - I have a vague memory of Ian going to SA but that's it.

I'm going to guess and say that Gavin's sister would have received it (though if it were a joint policy which it looks like it was, that in itself doesn't explain why Ian didn't get any, with some being left in trust for Ben.) It was Gavin's sister that the Beales were in contact with in 2006, so perhaps she is in on it. Maybe Gavin concocted some explanation for the insurers that Kathy didn't get on with her children so no money was to go to them, though as I've already said, I don't find the way this whole Kathy situation is going realistic.

Phil has known about this for three years from an email Kathy sent to the Arches? Yet they haven't told us when Phil first saw her again. Hoax emails from dead people do happen; Steven was "Cindy" back in 2007. Surely Phil, having been stalked by Ben little more than 6 months prior, wouldn't just have taken her word for it.

Funnily enough I bought Den's resurrection. My 11 year old self was easily satisfied.

[Dazzle]

Sharon's obviously clueless about the kind of abuse that men like Gavin can do. Yeah, Kathy looked well, but looks can be deceiving.

I can understand some of Sharon's reaction, as she went through the same thing with her dad as I recall. But some of what she said sounded petty and childish to me. "They've got me now!" Like she's worried Kathy is gonna come back and take over. Personally I think Kathy should take over, as Phil's done a shoddy job with Ben by teaching him violence up to the point of him committing murder, and unaccepting of his homosexuality etc. And Sharon, while she comes across as a nice person, she is definitely not someone I would call mother of the year considering the way Denny is acting. I was close to cheering when Kathy finally got some of her spirit back and shoved Sharon. Sharon so needed a slap!

To be fair to Sharon, I think she reacted exactly the way most people would have if they discovered the mother of a very close friend had faked their death. It's even worse for Sharon because she knows exactly how Ian will feel. She doesn't know why Kathy did it, and at the moment she doesn't want to know because she's so angry on Ian and Ben's behalf. She's bound to calm down and listen at some stage, although it looks to me like the writers are setting them up as enemies from the off.


I couldn't remember. I know Lauren knew the truth, and Peter knew that she knew, but did the rest of his family?

I can't remember either, but I took it from the duff duff that Jane wasn't supposed to realise Lauren knew.


So who would have got the insurance money if there was any? I'm pretty certain that insurance companies would look oddly at any requests for it to not go to family followed so closely by the 'deaths' ...
I don't remember much detail from the time it happened - I have a vague memory of Ian going to SA but that's it.

Gavin's sister "identified" the bodies so she must have been in on it. It might also come out that some local police were paid to look the other way too.

If it was Gavin's insurance policy, and his sister was his closest relative after Kathy, surely it would seem natural that she be the beneficiary?


Funnily enough I bought Den's resurrection. My 11 year old self was easily satisfied.

We're obviously going to be able to find holes if we look for them. They've engineered a story to bring Kathy back and I'll probably accept it as long as Kathy didn't just cold-heartedly abandon Ian and Ben - which doesn't appear to the case. It's obvious a lot of thought has gone into the details.

The fact is that truth can sometimes be stranger than fiction, as evidenced by the canoe man story upon which Kathy's resurrection has been loosely based.

[tammyy2j]

Marcus is a good solicitor, he is tearing each witness apart one by one showing a new suspect each time

Why cant Lauren tell Abi and Cora the truth :angry:

[Kim]

I'm finding the line about Ben taking Denny for a hair cut hilarious, seeing as he's about to show up with a new head.

[lizann]

vincent turning ronnie down and charlie going for custody and saying ronnie a killer was enjoyable

i expect a returning jack or tanya next to know bobby the killer and not do anything i could understand if innocent arrested was nick cotton but his love for ladies and cheating max isn't a true baddin

[Dazzle]

Interesting to hear Kathy believed Ben was coming with her and Gavin to start their new life. That softened Sharon towards her somewhat.


Marcus is a good solicitor, he is tearing each witness apart one by one showing a new suspect each time

He's excellent, but am I wrong in thinking a solicitor wouldn't get up in court and question witnesses like that?


Why cant Lauren tell Abi and Cora the truth :angry:

It's frustrating that Lauren keeps saying "trust me" and they don't question her further. If she's intent on keeping quiet about Bobby, surely she could invent a reason to explain how she knew for sure Max didn't do it?


I'm finding the line about Ben taking Denny for a hair cut hilarious, seeing as he's about to show up with a new head.

I laughed about that too. I expect the new actor playing Denny has much shorter hair than the old one. :D


i could understand if innocent arrested was nick cotton but his love for ladies and cheating max isn't a true baddin

Max isn't really an innocent, he just appears so compared to most of the other Albert Square residents.

As well as all the affairs and generally treating everyone appallingly (so much so that Tanya buried him alive, Lauren tried to run him over and Abi believes he's a murderer), he's conned several residents (including recently Ben). Am I also right in thinking he knew Kat was going to give false testimony against Alice to save Stacey? It that's correct, he's getting a taste of his own medicine now.

[storyseeker1]

He's excellent, but am I wrong in thinking a solicitor wouldn't get up in court and question witnesses like that?

Yes, you're completely wrong, as that's "exactly" what a solicitor/lawyer is meant to do in a courtroom. Trust me on this, as this is years of watching courtroom dramas like Perry Mason talking here.

[maidmarian]

I didnt want to reproduce the whole of Dazzles#8922
and when I cut out bits - it goes pear -shaped- sorry

Re Marcus Christie-
in wiki he is referred to as both solicitor and lawyer.
Solicitors and Barristers are both types of lawyers.
Most people if they said 'my lawyer " would mean
a solicitor!

Generally Barristers represent clients charged with
serious crimes in higher courts and are allowed
to wear wig& gown.
Solicitors represent on lower charges often in
magistrates courts. Cant wear wig & gown

There is now another level ie Solicitor Advocate
who can represent clients in higher courts!!
Marcus hasnt been seen for sometime- perhaps
brushing up.his qualifications?

Ive not been able to see episodes yet; - so can't
say more. The above is a simplistic version
of a complicated system.

No wonder Arthur Daley just used to say
"my brief"!!

[maidmarian]

dupl

[parkerman]

Yes, I wondered about Marcus as well. When we first knew him he was a solicitor and not a barrister. But, apparently, when he returned last year. Sharon found him through a firm of lawyers. He must have studied hard, had lots of dinners and taken silk.....

[moonstorm]

I have lots of dinners and like to wear silk - can I be a barrister???

[parkerman]

I have lots of dinners and like to wear silk - can I be a barrister???

Of course, moonstorm. There is one other initiation ceremony though - I bet you can guess what that is! :D

[Dazzle]

Yes, you're completely wrong, as that's "exactly" what a solicitor/lawyer is meant to do in a courtroom. Trust me on this, as this is years of watching courtroom dramas like Perry Mason talking here.

Things are done slightly differently in the US. According to their TV shows it seems any lawyer can represent a client in court, but in the UK higher courts it's traditionally a barrister (in wig and gown) who does so.

I worked for a solicitor's firm a long time ago and we always instructed barristers on big cases that were going to court which is why I was confused as to Marcus' role in court.


I didnt want to reproduce the whole of Dazzles#8922
and when I cut out bits - it goes pear -shaped- sorry

Sorry! Some of my posts do get out of hand. Perhaps I ought to start posting replies individually instead of multi-quoting? :o


There is now another level ie Solicitor Advocate
who can represent clients in higher courts!!
Marcus hasnt been seen for sometime- perhaps
brushing up.his qualifications?

Thanks! Solicitor advocate is a new one to me. It looks like Marcus has gained more qualifications in his years away, either as a solicitor advocate or as a barrister (as parkerman suggests).


Of course, moonstorm. There is one other initiation ceremony though - I bet you can guess what that is! :D

I think we can all guess what that is... :nono: :p :D

[maidmarian]

I like the multi- comment posts!!
They are interesting and it means.I.
sometimes see things I might otherwise
have missed !!
Its just sometimes I seem.to delete the
one point I want to.refer to-but rest
remain!!
Other times-its fine.

P.S. I.thought Moonstorm was famed
for NOT wearing things!!

[moonstorm]

Of course, moonstorm. There is one other initiation ceremony though - I bet you can guess what that is! :D

:cheer: And it's not even that time of year!!

[lizann]

I have lots of dinners and like to wear silk - can I be a barrister???

i can't afford silk nothing with cotton is there

[Kim]

Yes, I wondered about Marcus as well. When we first knew him he was a solicitor and not a barrister. But, apparently, when he returned last year. Sharon found him through a firm of lawyers. He must have studied hard, had lots of dinners and taken silk.....

This is soapland, so I'd say his qualifications were probably faked. Studying is a dirty word in EastEnders it seems. With all the money he had out of Phil back in 2004, he had more than enough to buy fakes/pay someone to sit exams in his name.

[sarah c]

Yes, you're completely wrong, as that's "exactly" what a solicitor/lawyer is meant to do in a courtroom. Trust me on this, as this is years of watching courtroom dramas like Perry Mason talking here.

no Marcus is a solicitor, it is a Barrister that stands up in Court and questions witnesses?

[maidmarian]

no Marcus is a solicitor, it is a Barrister that stands up in Court and questions witnesses?

Also Solicitor Advocates can lead defence in
murder trials at higher courts in Uk now.

There seem to be quite a number who
are "employed" at well known firms
and have done so in murder trials
and retrials- in reports on Internet
incuding some trials that have had TV
programmes made about them.

In the case of Marcus -I would say based
on what Parkerman can remember from
Sharon finding him last year and references
in Wiki- he is now a barrister or we are
meant to believe so.

[maidmarian]

dupl

[tammyy2j]

Marcus is doing a great job whether barrister or solicitor, love him tearing into the witnesses, he is making this long now farce saga of Lucy's murder enjoyable for me, now let him free Max as no one will tell on Bobby not even Max's own daughter to save him

[xx_Dan_xx]

I've been thinking about the night Lucy died and I am puzzled the police didn't even consider Lucy made it home.

If you think about it, if Max planned to kill Lucy, do the police really believe he was so sloppy up to the moment he killed her by being seen by loads of people, getting blood on his clothes but apparently the murder and moving of the body is was done ingeniously. There is too much of a contrast, and I am surprised the police were too easily swayed because if it was Max, he was making a right mess up to the murder but was a criminal genius afterwards.

After everything that happened to Lucy that night: the drugs, being mugged, hit by whatever that drunk guy was called - surely anyone would just want to go home and start the day fresh. That is exactly what she did but the police didn't even consider it. The body was moved to the common which tells us the location of the murder was at a place where it would reveal who the murderer is. So if you consider that and the fact Lucy would just want to go home - why didn't the police consider if she did make it home. By the point, I don't think Lucy would be in the mood to go into someone else's house.

So, if you consider if she did make it home then the list of suspects is down to the Beales.

Ian: Don't believe he had a vehicle to move her body, unlikely he'd move her body to the common and let it remain their the entire night. He did say she was his favorite child.
Peter: Does have a motive, doesn't have a vehicle and he would of likely told someone and he was on drugs, hardly going to commit a crime ingeniously
Cindy: Would need help moving body, even if she told Ian or Jane, they would of called the police
Bobby: Would need help moving body, well, obviously Jane has a vehicle and she's his mom.

Furthermore, Jane couldn't really of seen Lauren from Masood's house on that video especially if you consider that she just happened to stare out of the window at that exact moment, a moment that could of been important in a murder investigation.

I know that is mostly speculation but it is realistic and makes Lucy's final intentions sense. Anyone would want to go home after that night. I am surprised the police missed this.

[parkerman]

Your mistake is in assuming that the soap police behave like a normal police force when, in fact, they are the modern day equivalents to the Keystone Cops!

[tammyy2j]

Is Marsden off the case now?

[sarah c]

Is Marsden off the case now?

Keeble seems to have taken over?

[Kim]

Is Marsden off the case now?

She's in one episode next week I believe.

[Dazzle]

Do the police believe Max planned Lucy's murder? I can't remember that being said. Jane was incredibly lucky to not have been seen putting Lucy's body in the car and disposing of the body, so presumably Max could have been just as lucky in the same circumstances?

In real investigations the family is always the first place the police look because people are usually murdered by someone close to them. We weren't shown any intensive questioning of the family but I always assumed it had happened off screen because it would have been just too unrealistic if it hadn't. Only Jane and Bobby knew Lucy came home. Jane would of course have lied and presumably she would have coached Bobby to as well (if he was questioned). She could have told him not to mention Lucy coming back because he'd get into trouble if the police found out he'd hit her.

I'm not sure if the police have seen the video. I know Emma did but can't remember if it was shown to Keeble etc.

[Glen1]

Too many twists ,turns and contradictions over a long time . I don't recall Keeble seeing the video or saying anything about it if she had.
Thought Marcus had Abi well cornered in tonights ep and then ruined it giving her the perfect opportunity for a bit of witness box arrogance.

[Kim]

I thought Denny was having his hair cut, not dyed. He's gone from blonde to brown overnight!

[lizann]

I thought Denny was having his hair cut, not dyed. He's gone from blonde to brown overnight!

thought that was bobby, the old bobby :p

abi you little runt

[lizann]

I thought Denny was having his hair cut, not dyed. He's gone from blonde to brown overnight!

thought that was bobby, the old bobby :p

abi you little runt

[parkerman]

Wow! What an episode! Winston spoke.:cheer:

[lizann]

Wow! What an episode! Winston spoke.:cheer:

roxy fancies him, he is a smooth talker :p

[lizann]

Wow! What an episode! Winston spoke.:cheer:

roxy fancies him, he is a smooth talker :p

[Perdita]

roxy fancies him, he is a smooth talker :p

Roxy fancies too many, especially when they are in a relationship already :p

[storyseeker1]

Roxy fancies too many, especially when they are in a relationship already :p

Too true. If it's not someone who is a certifiable nutjob like Sean, or a rapist like Dean, then it's someone who's already involved with someone else.

[Dazzle]

Abi was great in the witness box (not so great for Max though :eek:).

It's a lot more realistic having the court case stretched over a couple of weeks, but I kind of wish we were getting a couple of episodes intensively focused on it. I'm still enjoying all the highly improbable twists and turns in the Bobby case.

Even if Max if found innocent, I hope the truth about Bobby won't be made public any time soon - although if it is, perhaps that's why

Ian ends up almost committing suicide?

[Glen1]

Agree, I would like to have had more time focused on the trial. As regards Abi , wouldn't have been surprised to see her finish her final answer to Marcus by sticking her tongue out and saying "so there". The spoiler Dazzle ,wonder if something is going to happen to Jane ? :)

[Dazzle]

The spoiler Dazzle ,wonder if something is going to happen to Jane ? :)

Well Jane is in the photos where Ian's about to jump off a bridge (as is Kathy), so she isn't in prison - yet.

Here's the spoiler post: http://www.soapboards.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?106282-Adam-Woodyatt-%28Ian-Beale-EastEnders-%29&p=827272#post827272

[tammyy2j]

How many times now has Abi lied and changed her story, she should he charged by now :angry: and why is Lauren still staying quite and covering for Bobby :angry:

Did Gavin find Kathy or did she call him?

Roxy is on Ronnie's side and is playing Charlie, why so he will charged with kidnapping his son?

[Dazzle]

I don't find Marcus accusing Abi of Lucy's murder a good enough reason for Lauren to hate Max enough to allow him to go down. She knows he's an innocent man and will therefore be desperate. I suppose she trusts Jane to get him off yet the latter hasn't given her an explanation of what she's going to say (to my knowledge), so why would she be so confident? I want to hear her reaffirm that if Max is found guilty she'll tell the truth about Bobby.

I'd also like an explanation of why Peter's not back with Lauren, especially now she's given birth. A line to the effect that he's started a very good new job and can't get the time off would be sufficient to explain a temporary separation. Maybe it'll come out that their relationship is in trouble?

Babe's "long dark night of the soul" admission was moving. It would be a nice touch if she was someone Lee felt he could confide in.


Did Gavin find Kathy or did she call him?

I'm pretty sure he found her. The difference in her demeanour when Gavin was there was very apparent.

On another note, I'm very glad to hear that Phil seems genuinely not to have any romantic interest in Kathy.


Roxy is on Ronnie's side and is playing Charlie, why so he will charged with kidnapping his son?

That's a good idea, I was wondering what Ronnie was up to.

I'm not quite sure whether to be on Ronnie or Charlie's side. I'm a long-term fan of Ronnie's but she's treated Charlie shockingly recently (although to be fair he started it), and I'm not convinced she truly loves Matthew. However, her admission that she's at the end of her tether rang true and got my sympathy. I couldn't help but be glad Roxy hadn't betrayed her.

Also, Charlie's plan to abduct Matthew is wrong however desperate he feels. I'd sympathise if he'd tried going the legal route and got nowhere.

[parkerman]

I think at the last count there are eight people (unless I've missed anyone) who know that Max is innocent and that it was Bobby who killed Lucy. I just cannot believe that in real life all eight of them would allow Max to go down for life for a crime they knew he didn't commit.......

[tammyy2j]

I think at the last count there are eight people (unless I've missed anyone) who know that Max is innocent and that it was Bobby who killed Lucy. I just cannot believe that in real life all eight of them would allow Max to go down for life for a crime they knew he didn't commit.......

One being his own daughter

[maidmarian]

d

[lizann]

glenda addicted to diazepam, is that new or was it known before?

why is lauren mad at max she is letting him rot in jail

[lizann]

glenda addicted to diazepam, is that new or was it known before?

why is lauren mad at max she is letting him rot in jail

[Ruffed_lemur]

I think at the last count there are eight people (unless I've missed anyone) who know that Max is innocent and that it was Bobby who killed Lucy. I just cannot believe that in real life all eight of them would allow Max to go down for life for a crime they knew he didn't commit.......

Yes, it's just ridiculous!

[Kim]

glenda addicted to diazepam, is that new or was it known before?

why is lauren mad at max she is letting him rot in jail

Glenda was definitely on some form of medication (Ronnie found them in her bag in January 2010, I think it was.) I'm not sure it was stated what they were. I don't recall addiction being stated or covered, but it may have happened under Kirkwood during another of my off periods with the show.

[Kim]

I think at the last count there are eight people (unless I've missed anyone) who know that Max is innocent and that it was Bobby who killed Lucy. I just cannot believe that in real life all eight of them would allow Max to go down for life for a crime they knew he didn't commit.......

You are right, there are eight:

Jane
Ian
Peter
Lauren
Cindy
Liam
Sharon
Phil

I couldn't buy Peter, Lauren and Cindy from the off, especially Peter and later Lauren, now that Max is in the frame. Phil playing the hardman and trying to get Jane to call the police was similarly ridiculous. Why is it one rule for a Mitchell (especially Phil and Ronnie) and another for everyone else? He wouldn't call the police if the shoe was on the other foot and Jane said as much. Marsden was absolutely right when she said there was something going on the other month because Phil had gone to the police station without being arrested.

[parkerman]

You are right, there are eight:

Jane
Ian
Peter
Lauren
Cindy
Liam
Sharon
Phil

I couldn't buy Peter, Lauren and Cindy from the off, especially Peter and later Lauren, now that Max is in the frame. Phil playing the hardman and trying to get Jane to call the police was similarly ridiculous. Why is it one rule for a Mitchell (especially Phil and Ronnie) and another for everyone else? He wouldn't call the police if the shoe was on the other foot and Jane said as much. Marsden was absolutely right when she said there was something going on the other month because Phil had gone to the police station without being arrested.

I know they have got shot of Cindy and Liam to foreign parts, but surely they must know what is going on and they, above anyone else (with the possible exception of Lauren), would not allow Max to be put away. Cindy, we know, actually sent that video to Bobby, so she is certainly not afraid to tell the truth. Where is she? And Liam, too, was all for spilling the beans before he left and what with him being related to Max as well......

I really think this is all stretching the bounds of credibility and, yes, I know it's not real life, but to be reasonable and acceptable, EE does have to have a very firm grounding in reality. But here it seems to be in a complete fantasy world.

[Dazzle]

I really think this is all stretching the bounds of credibility and, yes, I know it's not real life, but to be reasonable and acceptable, EE does have to have a very firm grounding in reality. But here it seems to be in a complete fantasy world.

I agree this storyline's got too far-fetched now. I don't understand the decision-making going on because it's unnecessary to the story that so many characters know about Bobby. Some of it just seems to have been done for short-term shock value without thought for the long-term repercussions.

My thoughts on the different characters' reactions (given that I accept EE is set in its own alternate universe and I don't expect or need total realism):



Jane - I find her covering it up in a moment of madness and now regretting it acceptable. She has a conscience and has stated many times that she'll confess to the murder rather than see an innocent go down for it.

Ian - acceptable. He's always been a selfish weasel given to cruelty.

Peter - although he was disgusted at first, I can believe he came to accept it as long as he believed Lucy's death was an accident and a one-off.

Lauren - I can believe she'd go along with Peter as long as nobody else was harmed by the secret (and certainly not her own father). I can just about accept she'd now trust Jane when she says she'll make sure Max doesn't go down for the murder, but I absolutely won't accept it if she turns her back on him if he's found guilty. The fact that he told Marcus that Abi "battered" Lucy would not be a good enough reason.

Cindy - I can believe she accepted it as long as she believed Lucy's death was an accident and a one-off. However, she came to realise Bobby is deeply disturbed. To be fair, she did send the video, but I don't believe she'd let things lie now just because she's out of the country. "Out of sight, out of mind" isn't good enough.

Liam - totally unbelievable that he'd let his uncle Max go down and cause his beloved aunt Carol untold stress in the process.

Sharon - I believe that she'd put family above all else (and she does consider Ian to be family).

Phil - has no scruples whatsoever. As Kim says, the only unbelievable thing about his part in all this is that he went to the police about Ben and threatened to force Jane to confess.



Anyone strongly disagree with my analysis?

[Rear window]

Phil - has no scruples whatsoever. As Kim says, the only unbelievable thing about his part in all this is that he went to the police about Ben and threatened to force Jane to confess.




He hates Max cos of him getting one over on Ben with the Arches ... So that's very natural.

The rest of them - well yes Jane I think would rather go to prison herself than let anyone else..

Wasn't there a rumour there was going to be another death at the hands of Bobby?

[Rear window]

Phil - has no scruples whatsoever. As Kim says, the only unbelievable thing about his part in all this is that he went to the police about Ben and threatened to force Jane to confess.




He hates Max cos of him getting one over on Ben with the Arches ... So that's very natural.

The rest of them - well yes Jane I think would rather go to prison herself than let anyone else..

Wasn't there a rumour there was going to be another death at the hands of Bobby?

[Dazzle]

He hates Max cos of him getting one over on Ben with the Arches ... So that's very natural.

Thanks, I forgot to mention Phil's hatred of Max after he conned Ben.


Wasn't there a rumour there was going to be another death at the hands of Bobby?

I haven't heard that, but that's not to say it won't happen. Perhaps it could be a Christmas storyline?

[parkerman]

I completely agree with your analysis, Dazzle. In the real world I just could not see Lauren, Cindy and Liam allowing Max to go down for murder. Like you, I don't buy Lauren turning on her father for the reason so far given, though I believe something else may happen next week. Not sure what. Jane could never live with herself if Max was found guilty. Yes, the other four I could just about accept might not speak up, though Peter's reaction would, I think, largely depend on what Lauren does. Of all of them, Liam is certainly the one who I just could not see accepting Max being found guilty. In fact I am certain in the real world he would never have allowed it even to go this far.

[Dazzle]

I completely agree with your analysis, Dazzle.

:thumbsup:


Of all of them, Liam is certainly the one who I just could not see accepting Max being found guilty. In fact I am certain in the real world he would never have allowed it even to go this far.

It's bizarre that Liam was ever written as finding out if they couldn't keep his reaction in character. We're supposed to believe that he was so in love with Cindy his feelings for her trumped all else, but that's never been his personality. Anyway, they both left thinking it would hit the fan after Bobby saw the video and are now well aware that didn't happen, so why have they turned their backs on the situation?

It might be the writers think "out of sight, out of mind" applies to us, the viewers... :wall:

[maidmarian]

Im. still perplexed about Lauren!
I thought I had read something that
"might" explain her attitude : but
cant find it! Wont add to confusion
by guessing/ or possibly mis- rembering!!

So.wait til.next week and see what
happens?

[Glen1]

I believe Dazzle you together with Parkerman and Kim have identified the very core of the problem. This storyline whilst starting off under control and a plan as to where and how it would develop gathered too much momentum and was allowed to spiral out of control . Too many layers were and continue to be added to the point where it's lost touch with what Parkerman has referred to on many occasions "gritty drama". Finally I don't think the producers understand that this storyline is now barren, let it conclude, move on. Rant over.

[parkerman]

Oh yes, found what I was looking for. "Her (Jane) next step is a shocker....She sees Max is frustrated that the court keep on bringing up daughter Abi during his trial. When Lauren and Abi attend the court hearing, they are also stunned at what they hear, and vow to withdraw their support of their father" (Didn't know Abi was supporting him in the first place!). So, apparently, it is something that Jane says in court that makes Lauren withdraw her support.

[Dazzle]

Oh yes, found what I was looking for. "Her (Jane) next step is a shocker....She sees Max is frustrated that the court keep on bringing up daughter Abi during his trial. When Lauren and Abi attend the court hearing, they are also stunned at what they hear, and vow to withdraw their support of their father" (Didn't know Abi was supporting him in the first place!). So, apparently, it is something that Jane says in court that makes Lauren withdraw her support.

I remembered reading that something makes Lauren withdraw her support for Max, but thought that it was Marcus bringing up Abi's "battering" of Lucy that was the cause. I'm very intrigued now as to what Jane will say to try to get Max off the hook that will outrage Lauren and Abi.

The only thing I can think of is a story about an affair, but while people might believe Jane would keep quiet about it until now, why would Max keep silent about an alibi that could have prevented him being arrested and imprisoned? I just don't think anyone would buy that.

[lizann]

has liam cut all ties with carol and whitney since he left

[Dazzle]

has liam cut all ties with carol and whitney since he left

I wouldn't have thought so because he left on good terms with them, but I can't remember it being mentioned.

[lizann]

max has had affairs before even if jane is tanya best mate so lies i cant see what max could do that lauren lets him rot in jail knowing he is innocent, its ridiculous

[parkerman]

I remembered reading that something makes Lauren withdraw her support for Max, but thought that it was Marcus bringing up Abi's "battering" of Lucy that was the cause. I'm very intrigued now as to what Jane will say to try to get Max off the hook that will outrage Lauren and Abi.

The only thing I can think of is a story about an affair, but while people might believe Jane would keep quiet about it until now, why would Max keep silent about an alibi that could have prevented him being arrested and imprisoned? I just don't think anyone would buy that.
Of course this is all speculation, but even if Jane does say in Court that she had an affair with Max, surely Lauren would know she is lying to get Max off. So it can't be that....or can it?

[maidmarian]

Of course this is all speculation, but even if Jane does say in Court that she had an affair with Max, surely Lauren would know she is lying to get Max off. So it can't be that....or can it?

that was what I thought I.read a couple of
weeks ago -but couldnt find again and still
havent!- not sure where it was!!

but it doesnt really explain things? possibly
after the revelation but not the current
behaviour??

[maidmarian]

dupl

[tammyy2j]

I really cant understand why Lauren is still staying quite, even Abi thinks Max is guilty :angry:

[Glen1]

I really cant understand why Lauren is still staying quite, even Abi thinks Max is guilty :angry:
Absolutely, why travel all the way from New Zealand ,(which must have been on Walford Airlines considering health and welfare issues with her condition) and not even attempt to contact the authorities to try and get an innocent man freed from a possible life term who as far as she knows is innocent of the crime. Didn't Lauren and Peter have an understanding with Ian and Jane that they wouldn't say anything unless circumstances arose that would reverse that decision ? If this isn't it ,heaven help us!

[tammyy2j]

Poor Max what ungrateful selfish kids he has, I cant understand why Lauren is letting him go down :angry: Charlie should have got away with Matthew, really shocked he left him behind must have been Ronnie's line about him being like Nick when she herself is turning like Archie

[vcdg84]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Sorry had to let that out so frustrated with the Lucy murder storyline now. Why have they written that so many people find out but no one is saying anything?!!!

[Dazzle]

Didn't Lauren and Peter have an understanding with Ian and Jane that they wouldn't say anything unless circumstances arose that would reverse that decision ? If this isn't it ,heaven help us!

Lauren promised him she'd protect Bobby, but I don't think Peter would agree with what's happening to Max.


Poor Max what ungrateful selfish kids he has, I cant understand why Lauren is letting him go down :angry:

Why Lauren is abandoning Max to his fate is easy to figure out: she's disgusted he's allowing Marcus to try to frame Abi. Whether it's believable that Lauren would do this is a totally different question. I think most of us (myself included) would say it's not.

Disown him, never speak to him again, never allow him to see his grandchildren - if she's so disgusted with him. But to allow him to be imprisoned for life for something she knows he's one hundred percent innocent of? I don't buy it for an instant. Lauren wouldn't do that to a stranger in my opinion, let alone her own father.


Charlie should have got away with Matthew, really shocked he left him behind must have been Ronnie's line about him being like Nick when she herself is turning like Archie

I think you're right that Charlie left Matthew because of what Ronnie said about Nick, but as far as I'm concerned it was another example of nonsensical writing in this episode. He was desperate to get Matthew away from Ronnie then changes his mind on a whim at the last moment? While I'm glad Ronnie still has Matthew (because I'm now persuaded she truly loves him), the writing for Charlie's exit was very poor.

I'm disappointed in EE at the moment. :wall:

[parkerman]

i'm rapidly losing the will to live over the ridiculous Lucy murder story - or at least the will to carry on watching Eastenders. It is descending rapidly into high farce. I'm expecting the next witness to be Brian Rix losing his trousers as he enters the witness box to be questioned by Coco the Clown.....:mad:

[lizann]

peter should be back they should have recast

[storyseeker1]

I agree with the part about Charlie just leaving Matt after everything he went through to get him. They should've just had him arrested. Not what I wanted, but at least it would have been a more believable exit.

Lauren sure changed her tune to help Max, although I can understand somewhat. She's most likely just lashing out in anger over what her dad has done to Abi in court. Hopefully, once she's had a chance to cool down, she'll go back to trying to help him. I don't know if I agree with what she said to Jane about "Family". I understand that she believes in people having each other's backs, but personally I think what Jane did is more delusion than it is helping. Bobby is clearly damaged, but she refuses to see it, and is going waaay overboard to protect him.

I'm sick of the murder story myself! This is all just getting too plain stupid.

[parkerman]

Surely Marcus's point about saying Abi could have murdered Lucy is to question the whole premise on which the police have built their case against Max and to show the jury that there is reasonable doubt that he did it as it could equally have been someone else. Lauren should be pleased with this line of questioning as it is designed to get her father off without implicating Bobby in any way.

In any case, what right has Abi got to be so self-righteous? She's the one that dobbed Max in it in the first place? Why shouldn't he fight back? And why Lauren should take Abi's side over all this when she knows the truth is completely beyond me. Bring on Brian Rix and Coco.....

[Rear window]

The murder story is pretty crazy now. Abi was involved in scrubbing up blood and the blow could have been dealt by a woman ..( or a child... nice touch adding that bit) so should she be arressted and charged if Max is let off?
Maybe if Marcus makes more accusations towards her (as a way of clearing his client) then maybe Max says it was him after all? That'd make him the devil and a tiny bit noble at the same time. And it'd be a reason why there'd be no appeal and so no need to have him in it for a year or so. But how long would he get for that? Years and years surely.

I feel quite mixed about Charlie going. I think he came in like his dad - lying - and could have gone out like him too.
So has Ronnie bonded with Matthew now? I think that valium storyline is going to show she hasn't and that the child will need his dad to look after him.

I did see an ad after one episode saying something about they've got some plot maker thing online. Are they after new storylines cos they've run out of sensible ones? :-)

[Rear window]

dup.

[parkerman]

But how long would he get for that? Years and years surely.

Funny you should say that! Because I did notice last night that Inspector Keeble said that the murder was probably unintentional as it was only one blow and not a heavy one at that. I thought it a bit odd that that should suddenly be introduced into the prosecution case and could mean they are leading to a manslaughter verdict instead of murder, which would mean less time in prison.........

[tammyy2j]

Marcus picking on Abi as a prosecution witness cant be the reason Lauren is letting her innocent dad stay in prison, it is stupid that Lauren came all the way home to let Max stay in, plus how many times now has Abi lied and changed her story, she should he charged by now too :angry:

[Dazzle]

So has Ronnie bonded with Matthew now? I think that valium storyline is going to show she hasn't and that the child will need his dad to look after him.

I think the opposite, that she appeared not to have bonded with Matthew and was acting out of character around him because she was so stressed. I think her desperation to get him back in Monday's episode proved she really does love him. Hopefully she'll no longer need the valium now.

[lizann]

why did charlie leave dot and matthew he knows how bad ronnie can be he should stay and fight for him, i know declan was axed but what a stupid exit

[Dougie]

Jake Wood, one word, FANTASTIC !!!!

[tammyy2j]

I really feel sorry for Max, is Carol beginning to doubt his guilt now or does she herself feel guilty over his abuse by Jim as the oldest sibling

I agree Jake is a great actor

I wish Abi and Lauren were in court to see that side of Max

[parkerman]

G
is Carol beginning to doubt his guilt now

Well she said, "...but killer, no."