Eastenders - Current Episode Discussion - VIII

[monalisa62003]

Great minds... :D

About this issue of looking guilty. To use Whitney as an example again, she looked very shifty and guilty for a few episodes when the focus was on her around the time Tamwar found her note, but has since been acting as normal.

However, we had absolutely no indication from Stacey's behaviour that she was guilty of Archie's murder, so I don't think we can conclude that lack of guilt in everyday episodes signifies innocence in Eastenders.
Thats cos archie raped her, she had no reason to feel guilty

[Dazzle]

Thats cos archie raped her, she had no reason to feel guilty

I can't agree with that. There were extenuating circumstances, of course, but a decent person like Stacey would have felt very guilty about ending someone's life, even evil Archie's. We've seen proof of that recently even, when she handed herself into the police. She felt she deserved to be punished for the murder.

[monalisa62003]

I can't agree with that. There were extenuating circumstances, of course, but a decent person like Stacey would have felt very guilty about ending someone's life, even evil Archie's. We've seen proof of that recently even, when she handed herself into the police. She felt she deserved to be punished for the murder.

I thought that was down to clearing bradleys name and setting herself free.

[monalisa62003]

I can't agree with that. There were extenuating circumstances, of course, but a decent person like Stacey would have felt very guilty about ending someone's life, even evil Archie's. We've seen proof of that recently even, when she handed herself into the police. She felt she deserved to be punished for the murder.

I thought that was down to clearing bradleys name and setting herself free.

[Dazzle]

I thought that was down to clearing bradleys name and setting herself free.

It was, but I also thought she felt guilty about being a murderer and I do think that it's in character for her to feel guilt over it. Only someone without a conscience would feel no remorse over a murder, however much they felt the victim deserved it.

I'm happy to admit I'm wrong if my opinion's outnumbered though. :)

[xx_Dan_xx]

Called it.

[monalisa62003]

Didnt think anything could get more ew than phil & sharon but ben and abi do! urgh

[lizann]

abi is so deluded max wont be happy her with ben

so peter was lucy's dealer did he give her a family discount :p

[lizann]

abi is so deluded max wont be happy her with ben

so peter was lucy's dealer did he give her a family discount :p

[monalisa62003]

abi is so deluded max wont be happy her with ben

so peter was lucy's dealer did he give her a family discount :p

abi is using ben to get back at jay and make herself feel better

[monalisa62003]

abi is so deluded max wont be happy her with ben

so peter was lucy's dealer did he give her a family discount :p

abi is using ben to get back at jay and make herself feel better

I cant be the only one who doesnt want lucys killer to be cold blooded and one who doesnt really care. im so fed up of killers covering up their crime

[Dazzle]

Why was Peter supplying Lucy with drugs and where was he getting them? I can't see him being a drugs dealer. I'm looking forward to finding out the rest of the story.


abi is using ben to get back at jay and make herself feel better

Abi was over the moon when Ben said she was his girlfriend. I was thinking how desperate she came across during that scene - maybe she was just delighted to be anyone's girlfriend. The fact that the relationship displeases Jay (though not for the reason Abi thinks) is probably an added bonus for her lol.


I cant be the only one who doesnt want lucys killer to be cold blooded and one who doesnt really care. im so fed up of killers covering up their crime

I don't think you're the only one by any means. I've seen lots of people on other sites say the same, so you're not alone. I do understand that you want the story to be different from other soap murders as it starts to get boring when they all follow the same formula.

[monalisa62003]

Why was Peter supplying Lucy with drugs and where was he getting them? I can't see him being a drugs dealer. I'm looking forward to finding out the rest of the story.



Abi was over the moon when Ben said she was his girlfriend. I was thinking how desperate she came across during that scene - maybe she was just delighted to be anyone's girlfriend. The fact that the relationship displeases Jay (though not for the reason Abi thinks) is probably an added bonus for her lol.



I don't think you're the only one by any means. I've seen lots of people on other sites say the same, so you're not alone. I do understand that you want the story to be different from other soap murders as it starts to get boring when they all follow the same formula.

I think jay still loves abi but there is a reason he had to dump her. Its clearly not about lola as he doesnt seem fussed about her. He has been ignoring abi and been quite harsh to her when theres no real reason to be so nasty to her.

Im enjoying finding out things that happened to her rather than wanting to find out who killed her

[monalisa62003]

Why was Peter supplying Lucy with drugs and where was he getting them? I can't see him being a drugs dealer. I'm looking forward to finding out the rest of the story.



Abi was over the moon when Ben said she was his girlfriend. I was thinking how desperate she came across during that scene - maybe she was just delighted to be anyone's girlfriend. The fact that the relationship displeases Jay (though not for the reason Abi thinks) is probably an added bonus for her lol.



I don't think you're the only one by any means. I've seen lots of people on other sites say the same, so you're not alone. I do understand that you want the story to be different from other soap murders as it starts to get boring when they all follow the same formula.

I think jay still loves abi but there is a reason he had to dump her. Its clearly not about lola as he doesnt seem fussed about her. He has been ignoring abi and been quite harsh to her when theres no real reason to be so nasty to her.

Im enjoying finding out things that happened to her rather than wanting to find out who killed her

[Dazzle]

I think jay still loves abi but there is a reason he had to dump her. Its clearly not about lola as he doesnt seem fussed about her. He has been ignoring abi and been quite harsh to her when theres no real reason to be so nasty to her.

Good point, I've been wondering what's behind Jay's nastiness to Abi and why he hasn't made a move on Lola.


Im enjoying finding out things that happened to her rather than wanting to find out who killed her

Yes it does make a nice change.

[lizann]

I think jay still loves abi but there is a reason he had to dump her. Its clearly not about lola as he doesnt seem fussed about her. He has been ignoring abi and been quite harsh to her when theres no real reason to be so nasty to her.

Im enjoying finding out things that happened to her rather than wanting to find out who killed her

jay wants and loves lola but he is more preoccupied now with ben and what they did on the night lucy died i don't think jay loves abi anymore and hasn't done for a while also lola was away for a bit as billy hushed her and lexi away from ben

[lizann]

I think jay still loves abi but there is a reason he had to dump her. Its clearly not about lola as he doesnt seem fussed about her. He has been ignoring abi and been quite harsh to her when theres no real reason to be so nasty to her.

Im enjoying finding out things that happened to her rather than wanting to find out who killed her

jay wants and loves lola but he is more preoccupied now with ben and what they did on the night lucy died i don't think jay loves abi anymore and hasn't done for a while also lola was away for a bit as billy hushed her and lexi away from ben

[monalisa62003]

jay wants and loves lola but he is more preoccupied now with ben and what they did on the night lucy died i don't think jay loves abi anymore and hasn't done for a while also lola was away for a bit as billy hushed her and lexi away from ben

he hasnt been near lola. i dont buy them cos he turned lola down when he was with abi and all of a sudden he liked her at the start of the year. i think it was just a plot device to throw us off scent of ben/jay with the lucy thing

[monalisa62003]

jay wants and loves lola but he is more preoccupied now with ben and what they did on the night lucy died i don't think jay loves abi anymore and hasn't done for a while also lola was away for a bit as billy hushed her and lexi away from ben

he hasnt been near lola. i dont buy them cos he turned lola down when he was with abi and all of a sudden he liked her at the start of the year. i think it was just a plot device to throw us off scent of ben/jay with the lucy thing

why is jay being so nasty to abi then, theres absolutely no need. you dont just stop caring about someone you were with for 3 years. even if he doesnt love her doesnt mean he wouldnt care. he did run after her when he dumped her

ben has this hold over jay. there a reason why ben claimed jay was in love with lola

[monalisa62003]

So, im supposed to buy jay has no thoughts about ben using abi? even if he doesnt love abi, he could at least have some compassion..im not buying this at all. the way jay acted he didnt even react to maxs accusations. im convinced something has happened to make him react so cold towards/about abi. its not like he denied to phil he was jealous

so annoying they cut ben telling phil

[sarah c]

yeah thats what i mean. i think whoever killed her it was an accident which is why they dont know. they probably know they had an issue with her or done something but dont think that it killed her or was serious enough

how did her body get moved then?

[sarah c]

and my other half says Abi killed Lucy - thats not a spoiler just where money would be put sort of thing?

[tammyy2j]

I think whomever killed Lucy meant to kill her it wasn't an accident imo

Ian was very cruel to Peter last night

[tammyy2j]

.

[monalisa62003]

how did her body get moved then?

I think ben moved her

[monalisa62003]

how did her body get moved then?

I think ben moved her


I think whomever killed Lucy meant to kill her it wasn't an accident imo

Ian was very cruel to Peter last night

Boring and dull...dont want a repeat of the same old killer story. It would ruin the whole story for me who on the square hated her enough and would be so cruel to lie to ian/peter/bobby/lauren. Whoever would will be ruined then

[Dazzle]

So, im supposed to buy jay has no thoughts about ben using abi? even if he doesnt love abi, he could at least have some compassion..im not buying this at all. the way jay acted he didnt even react to maxs accusations. im convinced something has happened to make him react so cold towards/about abi. its not like he denied to phil he was jealous

Jay's hostile attitude to Abi may simply be because she's his ex. Former lovers often hate each other for no sensible reason. There's a fine line between love and hate as they say. I do think it's out of character for Jay though as Abi's done nothing that he could conceivably resent her for, but the simple truth is that love very often ends badly with people hating their exes.

I do think it's an interesting theory that there's something more to his hostility though, Mona. It'd be good if there was something concrete behind his attitude.


so annoying they cut ben telling phil

I know right lol. That was so annoying! I'm dying to find out the truth about what Ben and Jay got up to that night.


Ian was very cruel to Peter last night

I know it's bad, but I couldn't help smile when Ian said to Peter "look who's crying now". That line and Ian's facial expression were delivered perfectly by Adam Woodyatt. I thought Peter was pretty mean to Ian earlier in the episode but he's certainly correct that a lot of the family's dysfunctions are due to Ian's selfishness.

I must admit that I found Peter unconvincing and wooden during the episode which probably explains why my sympathy was with Ian.

I'm assuming that Fatboy's video was taken the night Lucy died and proves that Lauren lied about her alibi.

[monalisa62003]

If thats all it was with jay, would he not tell phil that?

[Glen1]

and my other half says Abi killed Lucy - thats not a spoiler just where money would be put sort of thing?
Some months ago Jake Wood aka Max was being interviewed on one of the chat shows and was asked who he thought killed Lucy , in almost a throw away comment he said Abi and quickly moved on, so your other half may have a point .
Thought Jane was quick to say no to Peter's suggestion of police involvement last night . Begin to wonder if the murder motive is centred around Bobby's attachment to Lucy , Jane's concern re the drug issue and wanting Bobby's affection and attention focused on her. :hmm: When Bobby went missing and was found at the murder scene ,how did he know the location? So many red herrings at the moment....:)

[Dazzle]

If thats all it was with jay, would he not tell phil that?

I got the impression that was about Ben lying about being gay.

[monalisa62003]

I got the impression that was about Ben lying about being gay.

Exactly. Why would he show no compassion for ben using abi. Makes no sense. Jays been so quiet and unmoved by anything lately

[monalisa62003]

I got the impression that was about Ben lying about being gay.

Exactly. Why would he show no compassion for ben using abi. Makes no sense. Jays been so quiet and unmoved by anything lately

[vcdg84]

Can someone remind me what Lauren's alibi was?! Its been so long I can't remember

[parkerman]

That she went to Roxy's party, left early and went straight home.

[vcdg84]

Thanks! But of a weak alibi anyway then!

[parkerman]

Thanks! But of a weak alibi anyway then!

Yes, as we will no doubt discover!

[monalisa62003]

Andy refused to see shirley then. this doesnt bode well, she wasnt even that bothered. i remember how devastated she was when phil refused to see her and she sat waiting for him loads.

and urgh thats all it was that ben told phil. why all the build up;(

[parkerman]

We don't know that's all he told Phil. We know he held something back from Ian but we don't know what. But whatever it was he might have told Phil.

[monalisa62003]

We don't know that's all he told Phil. We know he held something back from Ian but we don't know what. But whatever it was he might have told Phil. I assumed so cos phil told ian he wanted the phone

[Dazzle]

Ben may have told Phil the whole truth but it looks like the writers are going to keep us guessing about that for the time being.

Now that I've had a chance to get used to the idea of a new Martin, I'm quite excited to see what he's going to be like. I wonder if he still loves Sonia at all?

[parkerman]

From the brief glimpse we caught of Martin, I thought they'd done a fair job in getting someone facially similar.

[lizann]

aleks should go after his wife for his daughter's sake plus she looks better than peroxide

the new martin is doing well good casting

lauren is treating peter too badly over the drugs she has done bad things in the past too and also had worse boyfriends

ian is being a total pr*ck

[xx_Dan_xx]

aleks should go after his wife for his daughter's sake plus she looks better than peroxide

the new martin is doing well good casting

lauren is treating peter too badly over the drugs she has done bad things in the past too and also had worse boyfriends

ian is being a total pr*ck

I disagree with Lauren. Would you want to start a life and family with someone who's answer to a drug addict is to keep it going. I know he had good intentions but he wasn't getting rid of her problem and kept quiet after her death. He says its embarrassment but she was murdered. As for Lauren doing bad things, she has, but doesn't mean she should let this slide because you think she's still up on the score.

[xx_Dan_xx]

aleks should go after his wife for his daughter's sake plus she looks better than peroxide

the new martin is doing well good casting

lauren is treating peter too badly over the drugs she has done bad things in the past too and also had worse boyfriends

ian is being a total pr*ck

I disagree with Lauren. Would you want to start a life and family with someone who's answer to a drug addict is to keep it going. I know he had good intentions but he wasn't getting rid of her problem and kept quiet after her death. He says its embarrassment but she was murdered. As for Lauren doing bad things, she has, but doesn't mean she should let this slide because you think she's still up on the score.

[tammyy2j]

Is new Martin staying around?

He could help Peter

[tammyy2j]

I thought Peter's dealer was someone we might know

[Dazzle]

the new martin is doing well good casting


Is new Martin staying around?

I also liked the new Martin, and his and Sonia's relationship was very much as I remember it. I assume he'll be back as there wouldn't be much point in the recast for two episodes. There were certainly strong hints that

he might run the fruit and veg stall again when Peter leaves.

I disagree with Lauren. Would you want to start a life and family with someone who's answer to a drug addict is to keep it going. I know he had good intentions but he wasn't getting rid of her problem and kept quiet after her death. He says its embarrassment but she was murdered. As for Lauren doing bad things, she has, but doesn't mean she should let this slide because you think she's still up on the score.

I found Lauren quite harsh to Peter as she didn't even attempt to understand his motives. However, you make some good points about the reasons for her attitude I hadn't considered so I've changed my mind now. :)

I'm not sure that I found Peter turning to drugs a very convincing twist in the tale.

[lizann]

ian is a cruel s.o.b.

[Dazzle]

ian is a cruel s.o.b.

Did you see the state of Ian in that last scene though? I'm not condoning his behaviour in any way, and I feel sorry for Peter (even though I'm not a fan of the character), but Ian's really struggling too. It's a mess all round.

Cranking up Tosh's paranoia over Tina and Sonia was extremely ruthless on Babe's part. I guess there's no redeeming Tosh after that brutally violent outburst, which I think is a shame in a way because I think the actress is very good. I hope Tina is able to get away from her permanently now. I've a feeling that Babe and Shirley will get their revenge!

[Perdita]

Very convincing scene of the violent outburst .. made me feel uncomfortable just watching

[Dazzle]

Very convincing scene of the violent outburst .. made me feel uncomfortable just watching

It was very convincing indeed. :(

[tammyy2j]

Aunt Babe is very like Archie Mitchell she likes to control the Carter family, she knew Tosh would attack Tina over the watch

Tina seems to have a heart of gold and likes to help, especially her good mate Sonia, I hope they are kept as mates only too

[Dazzle]

Tina seems to have a heart of gold and likes to help, especially her good mate Sonia, I hope they are kept as mates only too

I think they'll almost certainly start a relationship at some point as the writers have gone to an awful lot of trouble to build up their chemistry (perhaps remembering the disaster that was Sonia and Naomi). I think a relationship between them would work well.

[lizann]

I think they'll almost certainly start a relationship at some point as the writers have gone to an awful lot of trouble to build up their chemistry (perhaps remembering the disaster that was Sonia and Naomi). I think a relationship between them would work well.

what chemistry?

why didn't anyone call the cops on tosh

[lizann]

I think they'll almost certainly start a relationship at some point as the writers have gone to an awful lot of trouble to build up their chemistry (perhaps remembering the disaster that was Sonia and Naomi). I think a relationship between them would work well.

what chemistry?

why didn't anyone call the cops on tosh

[maidmarian]

what chemistry?

why didn't anyone call the cops on tosh

Apparently -acccording to actresss playing
Tosh-as the story unfolders the viewers will
understand why she behaves as she does!!

And the appearance cops could upset this??
and we wouldnt want that!!!

[maidmarian]

what chemistry?

why didn't anyone call the cops on tosh

Apparently -acccording to actresss playing
Tosh-as the story unfolders the viewers will
understand why she behaves as she does!!

And the appearance cops could upset this??
and we wouldnt want that!!!

[Dazzle]

what chemistry?

I think there's very good chemistry between Sonia and Tina, and that their relationship's been built up very realistically as close friends who fall for each other.


why didn't anyone call the cops on tosh

I must say that I'm disappointed that some kind of revenge wasn't exacted upon Tosh, and I felt the Carters were far too nice to her. I can just about accept that they did it to avoid upsetting Tina any further though - she did definitively finish with Tosh after all.

Also, they may have felt they're was no point in calling the police as Tina would just deny everything (and one of them mentioned Tosh having friends in the force anyway). I still think I would have done it if I was one of them though.

I'm very surprised that Mick didn't recognise his "mother". Had he never seen any photos of her? Sylvie's very different to how I imagined her!

[parkerman]

Apparently -acccording to actresss playing
Tosh-as the story unfolders the viewers will
understand why she behaves as she does!!

And the appearance cops could upset this??
and we wouldnt want that!!!

When you say "as the story unfolds", what do you mean? That was Tosh's last appearance. She's gone for good.

[Perdita]

I don't watch EE on a regular basis so was it never shown why Tosh had anger issues? The way she was brought up, abusive parent or something like that?? I liked Tosh in the episodes I watched, portrayed by a very good actress

[Dazzle]

I don't watch EE on a regular basis so was it never shown why Tosh had anger issues? The way she was brought up, abusive parent or something like that?? I liked Tosh in the episodes I watched, portrayed by a very good actress

I agree, the actress was excellent. I was able to sympathise with Tosh during moments of vulnerability, which shows the actress' capability.

Tosh's background was never explored in depth (a missed opportunity I think) but we did meet her mother. Her parents were religious and highly disapproved of the fact she was gay. She wasn't accepted as part of the family after coming out. That was where her anger issues stemmed from.

[tammyy2j]

I don't watch EE on a regular basis so was it never shown why Tosh had anger issues? The way she was brought up, abusive parent or something like that?? I liked Tosh in the episodes I watched, portrayed by a very good actress

Tina mentioned Tosh had issues with her parents but it was never explored more as a storyline, I think Tosh's parents didn't approve of her sexuality I don't think she was beaten by her parents

[monalisa62003]

I didnt watch the phil and sharon scene, glad i didnt As i know he was all over her like a rash and it was disgusting. Where is the logic, shriley is in TEARS yet phil gets to be happy. Baffles belief why the show thinks we want phil to be happy

[maidmarian]

When you say "as the story unfolds", what do you mean? That was Tosh's last appearance. She's gone for good.


Well, me lud, what do I mean.........indeed!!

My plea in mitigation is that I have been staying
with in.an EE unfriendly environment for a while
and havent "caught up " with the latest episodes
When poster asked why cops not called I had
been reading a v long posting dated 8/12 in thread
"Rebecca Sproggs" where actress quotes long term
arc/reasons for her behaviour at lenghth and makes
it sound almost as tho she will be portrayed as
much a victim as Tina
So I thought there was much
more to come! but it didnt look as tho it would
be acceptable to victims & viewers and I posted my
reply.

There is now anr posting in same thread dated 12/12
confirming character has left and so has left a lot
of matters unresolved.
So Im sorry about my posting. I supposed it was too
much to expect a full resolution of an issue in a soap
and I dont think there is any excuse for domestic
violence.
Perhaps actress hoping for longer stay and exaggerating!

[parkerman]

While on the subject of general gripes (see DAvid and Kylie!!! on the Corrie thread), isn't it about time the well-worn cliche of getting stuck behind a stationary van was put out to grass. That must have been at least the 100th time it's happened in Eastenders! And it all seemed to be about nothing anyway. If Shirley's mum had gone missing for a long time, there might have been some reason for it, but, really, what was the point???

[maidmarian]

While on the subject of general gripes (see DAvid and Kylie!!! on the Corrie thread), isn't it about time the well-worn cliche of getting stuck behind a stationary van was put out to grass. That must have been at least the 100th time it's happened in Eastenders! And it all seemed to be about nothing anyway. If Shirley's mum had gone missing for a long time, there might have been some reason for it, but, really, what was the point???

I suppose because SWs have done it many
times before- they think why waste time&
brain-cells thinking up a new script when
u can" phone one in" for same salary.!

[maidmarian]

While on the subject of general gripes (see DAvid and Kylie!!! on the Corrie thread), isn't it about time the well-worn cliche of getting stuck behind a stationary van was put out to grass. That must have been at least the 100th time it's happened in Eastenders! And it all seemed to be about nothing anyway. If Shirley's mum had gone missing for a long time, there might have been some reason for it, but, really, what was the point???

I suppose because SWs have done it many
times before- they think why waste time&
brain-cells thinking up a new script when
u can" phone one in" for same salary.!

[Dazzle]

Excellent episode last night.

I was shocked that Sylvie has Alzheimer's. An unexpected twist in the tale that makes her an extremely unpredictable (and sad) character to watch.

Dot certainly wasn't expecting Ian to go rushing round to tell all to Sharon and Phil! I wonder what they'll do?


I didnt watch the phil and sharon scene, glad i didnt As i know he was all over her like a rash and it was disgusting. Where is the logic, shriley is in TEARS yet phil gets to be happy. Baffles belief why the show thinks we want phil to be happy

I knew there'd be a post from you about last night's Phil and Sharon scenes! :D


...and I dont think there is any excuse for domestic
violence.

I don't think there were ever any excuses made for Tosh's violence (except by Tina, who was under her spell). We were given glimpses of reasons for her anger and insecurity, which always have root causes, but that in no way excuses her battering Tina.

What I'd like to see for once is character like Tosh seeking professional help and overcoming their anger and violence issues instead of them just leaving the soap when their behaviour becomes public knowledge (and presumably moving on to their next victim).

I still felt she was redeemable as a character (up until the last brutal attack) if, after Tina had left her, she'd admitted that she had a problem and sought help for it. It might have encouraged others to do the same too. I don't know how realistic that scenario is in real life though.

[monalisa62003]

Dazzle, i havent watched the snogging bits yet. ive watched before sharon came in and when phil was answering the door. I've seen pics and other people have commented on it. Phil doesnt seem as into sharon as he was with shirley, he put up a much bigger fight with jay to leave them alone than he did ian, and he was all over shirley a lot more than sharon. One picture i seen he actually looks miserable kissing her. He didnt touch her face and barely touched her hair (from what ive been told) He just stood there when ian came in. I don't buy this phils madly in love with sharon at all...Thankgod i have scenes to look forward to! I was expecting it to be more than what i've heard. They had a snogging scene last year that looked like he was actually eating her, and i know ive been told he was slightly in this one but the pics didnt look the same as that one. that one was awful (for me) to watch...this one im thinking it might not be that bad lol!

of course that is all from my perspective from the bits ive watched and what people have told me. I seen him smile on the market and that worried me more!. i was glad the last scene was at the very end of the episode so i could turn it over! (if you think im wrong please dont be too harsh, this is just from what ive seen without watching the snogging bits!)

Sylvie is nasty, she was nasty about shirleys looks. the actress has already said sylvie is manipulative

[maidmarian]

You did get the impression- from
interview with actress the DV issue
would be dealt with much more deeply.
Reasons for behaviour given making it
if not excusable then to some extent
understandable and the actress seemed
to hint at some sort of redemption.

So I was amazed after missing a couple
of episodes- it was all concluded and Tosh
gone. I doubt she would return in the future.
In the few cases I became aware of -I'm
not sure redemption was possible-because
of attitudes- people need to want to change.
But different people with different lives
who accept their behaviour was wrong
and want to change - there must be at
least a hope for the future even if the
victim does not want to see them again.

My own limited experience of people who
have been victims of Domestic Violence
is men attacking women and one case of
a very small woman attacking a very large
man over prolonged period- unknown to
friends & colleagues . Which apparently
happens more frequently than thought.

So a case of two women which tho
very unpleasant was an opportunity to
highlight a scenario a lot of people
wouldnt be aware of and bring more
general awareness - as well.

[maidmarian]

You did get the impression- from
interview with actress the DV issue
would be dealt with much more deeply.
Reasons for behaviour given making it
if not excusable then to some extent
understandable and the actress seemed
to hint at some sort of redemption.

So I was amazed after missing a couple
of episodes- it was all concluded and Tosh
gone. I doubt she would return in the future.
In the few cases I became aware of -I'm
not sure redemption was possible-because
of attitudes- people need to want to change.
But different people with different lives
who accept their behaviour was wrong
and want to change - there must be at
least a hope for the future even if the
victim does not want to see them again.

My own limited experience of people who
have been victims of Domestic Violence
is men attacking women and one case of
a very small woman attacking a very large
man over prolonged period- unknown to
friends & colleagues . Which apparently
happens more frequently than thought.

So a case of two women which tho
very unpleasant was an opportunity to
highlight a scenario a lot of people
wouldnt be aware of and bring more
general awareness - as well.

[Dazzle]

Sly bit of manipulation by Shirley in convincing Mick that Sylvie needs to go into a home. I'm such a fan of Linda Henry!

I laughed out loud twice at last night's episode. Once at Dot's outrage at Nick being locked in his room, and again at Nick's description of Phil to Yvonne (something to do with Phil being able to snap Nick in half). Very funny lines and acting. :D

I'm thoroughly enjoying Ronnie vs Nick!

[lizann]

are kat and alfie not staying in terry's flat (keys from donna) which the rent was paid in advance

[lizann]

kat and alfie need to leave

[Glen1]

Heard Mick say to Shirley "get in the haddock" meaning his vehicle, never heard that one before ?...:searchme:

[parkerman]

Short for the Haddock and bloater, cockney rhyming slang for motor.

[Glen1]

Short for the Haddock and bloater, cockney rhyming slang for motor.
Thanks, would never have worked that out...:lol:

[Dazzle]

are kat and alfie not staying in terry's flat (keys from donna) which the rent was paid in advance

The flat was paid up until the end of November so they've been squatting since then. I'm surprised the landlord hadn't arranged to have it rented again by now.


kat and alfie need to leave

I couldn't agree more! They're painful to watch nowadays and I don't think I can ever like Alfie again after the arson and his recent arrogant and entitled attitude.

So Summerhayes is spying on Lauren, who we now know is a chief suspect. I hope we're not kept in suspense about what's on her computer!

Dean playing happy families... :sick: :angry:

[lizann]

who is paul to the crokers, another son or grandson?

[parkerman]

They said he was their grandson.

[parkerman]

Why was Stacey sleeping with Dean fully clothed!?

[tammyy2j]

Why was Stacey sleeping with Dean fully clothed!?

She was wearing pjs I think

I do like Stacey with Dean

Santa Stan in the pub was funny as was Elf Shirley

Good to see Phil with Janice too

[parkerman]

She was wearing pjs I think


Quite possibly, but I can't help thinking that, given the current state if their relationship, she'd be wearing a lot less than that!

[parkerman]

..................

[Dazzle]

I wish the writers hadn't made Kat and (especially) Alfie so unsympathetic, as being homeless is a big problem facing many people at the moment and I have lots of sympathy for real people in that position.

I hated the scene in the housing office! The pair of them were supposedly controlling themselves, but they were going on as if they were the only people ever to be homeless and that they somehow more deserving of help than others because of the fire. (At least we didn't have to endure "I'M ALFIE MOON" again, I suppose.)

At least Kat knows about the arson now so the storyline can move along. I wish she'd take her kids to Hull and shop Alfie to the police so I wouldn't have to watch either of them again.

[monalisa62003]

Sly bit of manipulation by Shirley in convincing Mick that Sylvie needs to go into a home. I'm such a fan of Linda Henry!

I laughed out loud twice at last night's episode. Once at Dot's outrage at Nick being locked in his room, and again at Nick's description of Phil to Yvonne (something to do with Phil being able to snap Nick in half). Very funny lines and acting. :D

I'm thoroughly enjoying Ronnie vs Nick!Can you blame shirley when sylvie was horrible to her?

Loved the phil & shirley scenes tonight. it was brief but you could tell there's still something very deep there between the two of them. phils reaction when he first seen her, how he looked back at her and smiled, the banter and phil smiling again. I didn't think his laughing was cruel, it didnt even last that long and when he said he couldnt take her seriously (I cant make out what he said why?) think he was just saying it to hurt her back. way more natural than phil/sharon & shirley/andy. Shirls defo not over phil

[Dazzle]

Can you blame shirley when sylvie was horrible to her?

Not at all! :)

[monalisa62003]

Not at all! :)

no comment on the phil & shirley scenes? i thought it was one of those scenes that really showed his love for her:)

[monalisa62003]

Not at all! :)

no comment on the phil & shirley scenes? i thought it was one of those scenes that really showed his love for her:)

[Dazzle]

no comment on the phil & shirley scenes? i thought it was one of those scenes that really showed his love for her:)

I thought it was a nice bit of friendly banter, but I didn't read more into it than that. They've certainly still got good chemistry, but whether there's any deeper feelings of love there remains to be seen. :)

[monalisa62003]

I thought it was a nice bit of friendly banter, but I didn't read more into it than that. They've certainly still got good chemistry, but whether there's any deeper feelings of love there remains to be seen. :)

The way he looks back at her is way more than friendly banter. You wouldnt look back at someone who was just a friend

[monalisa62003]

I thought it was a nice bit of friendly banter, but I didn't read more into it than that. They've certainly still got good chemistry, but whether there's any deeper feelings of love there remains to be seen. :)

The way he looks back at her is way more than friendly banter. You wouldnt look back at someone who was just a friend

[Dazzle]

The way he looks back at her is way more than friendly banter. You wouldnt look back at someone who was just a friend

Maybe lol. I'm not convinced but I do admit you may turn out to be right in the end. :)

[monalisa62003]

Maybe lol. I'm not convinced but I do admit you may turn out to be right in the end. :)
His smiles are a lot more natural than what they were with sharon. and dont forget this is shirley as an elf...i think its showing he prefers her even when sharon was in stockings! Even when hes annoyed about stan he smiles at shirley again

I dont think theyre friends. Shirley cant bear to be near him and sharon wont even allow phil near shirley.

[Dazzle]

I dont think theyre friends. Shirley cant bear to be near him and sharon wont even allow phil near shirley.

Maybe friendly banter was the wrong phrase. How about unfriendly banter instead? :D

[lizann]

how did kat's boots survive the fire

[parkerman]

They walked out on their own.

[parkerman]

During all that time Kat and Stacey were talking,Kat was having a shower/bath and then Kat going outside to talk to Alfie,where were the three kids?

[Dazzle]

During all that time Kat and Stacey were talking,Kat was having a shower/bath and then Kat going outside to talk to Alfie,where were the three kids?

Asleep in Tina's old room I thought. Wouldn't it be nice if kids were as easy to escape from in real life as they are in soaps? :D

Thanks goodness Kat saw sense and dumped the traitorous Alfie. Kat Slater is a far better character than Kat Moon. Please, please writers don't get them back together...

I hope Stacey now realises there's something radically wrong between Linda and Dean, and pulls away from him now. She'll be horrified when she finds out she was sleeping with a rapist.

Love that Stan calls Cora his dolly bird! :D

[lizann]

stan wanting to see which of these two brothers knocked that blonde bird up was funny :p

[tammyy2j]

A great scene between Stacey and Linda tonight, Stacey opening up about Archie's rape of her as she knew Linda has been raped too was good

[Dougie]

I agree really moving

[Dazzle]

A great scene between Stacey and Linda tonight, Stacey opening up about Archie's rape of her as she knew Linda has been raped too was good

Both actresses were fantastic and it made me remember why Stacey was my favourite character for many years. I'm so glad that someone else knows Linda's awful secret now. It must have been such a relief for her to hear Stacey articulating Linda's feelings since the rape.

[Glen1]

The rape storyline is proving to be far more interesting than the Lucy Beale saga at the moment. Which, imo .is rapidly turning into farce and needs to be pulled back on track.....:(

[lizann]

didn't like johnny's exit he could have stayed for xmas

[Dazzle]

Aaarghh!!! Weak woman alert!!! :wall:

What is it with so many women in EE falling at the feet of deadbeat men? First, Jane is falling for Ian all over again even after he treated her as little more than a skivvy during their first marriage. She also knows he recently used a prostitute! :sick: What is possessing her? Then there's silly Summerhayes, who goes back to Max after he undermined her professionally and got her the sack. He even admits he's weak and selfish! I suppose we know she's none too bright since she had an affair with a suspect, but Jane doesn't have that excuse.

Thank goodness for Stacey and Linda, who can give women everywhere someone to root for. I do wish that Stacey'd been more subtle in dumping Dean though for Linda's sake. Dean's comeuppance can't come a moment too soon for me! :angry:

Nice to see Shabnam with a smile on her face, and Kush appears to be a decent bloke. I'm sure there's going to be lots of obstacles in the way of them getting together though. I'm keen to see the writers delve deeper into Shabnam's character and what happened in Pakistan that changed her so much.

Do we believe Lauren that she never even knocked at the Beale's door the night Lucy was killed? :hmm:


didn't like johnny's exit he could have stayed for xmas

It's a shame that Johnny's left just before the fallout out the major Carter storylines over Christmas but I suppose if the actor wanted to leave when his contract was up, the writers didn't really have a choice. It won't make much difference him not being there, to be honest, as he's not a strong character. Also, there's no way Johnny would leave after he learns the truth, so I think it's better that he left before Christmas.

[lizann]

jane is an idiot emma was always a numpty idiot

so lauren went to see lucy because she is fun when she is sober

[lizann]

jane is an idiot emma was always a numpty idiot

so lauren went to see lucy because she is fun when she is sober

[Dazzle]

so lauren went to see lucy because she is fun when she is sober

Very convincing excuse...

[lizann]

is dean is the tenant's name on the flat rental/lease agreement so he can kick stacey and kat and the kids out not stacey kicking him out and where is big mo living?

[parkerman]

Yes, I can't see Dean, given the way the character has developed just meekly allowing Stacey to boot him out from his own flat! And where IS Mo living? Good question.

[maidmarian]

[QUOTE=Dazzle;814020]Aaarghh!!! Weak woman alert!!! :wall:

What is it with so many women in EE falling at the feet of deadbeat men? First, Jane is falling for Ian all over again even after he treated her as little more than a skivvy during their first marriage. She also knows he recently used a prostitute! :sick: What is possessing her? Then there's silly Summerhayes, who goes back to Max after he undermined her professionally and got her the sack. He even admits he's weak and selfish! I suppose we know she's none too bright since she had an affair with a suspect, but Jane doesn't have that excuse.


Reply

It isnt just EE tho. A lot of female characters
in various Soaps start off strong and then
become feeble nitwits.
I think we are supposed to think that its
acceptable for women to be drippy
doormats and it probably is to men
who cant deal with any other sort!

I know its not real life but surveys
shows that a higher% of very young
women accept abuse (mental&
physical)as "normal" in relationships
than ever before. When the tide should
be turning the other way.
It does make me think that the
constant drip-drip of once strong
characters being bedazzled by
weaker men - must contribute in
some way.
And at the risk of being heightist
- the men are usually smaller.

[kayuqtuq]

Hasn't Mo gone off to Spain or somewhere to visit Charlie Slater?

[Glen1]

Hasn't Mo gone off to Spain or somewhere to visit Charlie Slater?
The way she suddenly seems to pop up and then vanish is a mystery. Might have a secret lover tucked away ....:)

[Perdita]

Probably gone off with Fat Elvis :D

[Dazzle]

It isnt just EE tho. A lot of female characters
in various Soaps start off strong and then
become feeble nitwits.
I think we are supposed to think that its
acceptable for women to be drippy
doormats and it probably is to men
who cant deal with any other sort!

I agree it's all the soaps, though EE seems to be the worst to me. We have the likes of Whitney and Lauren apparently constantly chasing unsuitable men, and the recent unedifying spectacle of Sharon and Shirley fighting tooth and sharpened claw over serial abuser Phil. Sharon even married him after learning he set two thugs on her!! What a comedown for two otherwise excellent female characters. :wall:


I know its not real life but surveys
shows that a higher% of very young
women accept abuse (mental&
physical)as "normal" in relationships
than ever before. When the tide should
be turning the other way.
It does make me think that the
constant drip-drip of once strong
characters being bedazzled by
weaker men - must contribute in
some way.

I've heard that about today's young women too. It's very worrying. I doubt the soaps make things much worse, though they certainly don't help.


Hasn't Mo gone off to Spain or somewhere to visit Charlie Slater?

That's right. A couple of weeks ago, she and Kat had a conversation about Charlie sending £200 for the flights. He wanted them all to go, but they didn't have enough money.

[parkerman]

That's right. A couple of weeks ago, she and Kat had a conversation about Charlie sending £200 for the flights. He wanted them all to go, but they didn't have enough money.

Oh yes, that rings a bell....wasn't it Lanzarote? Not that it matters. :)

[tammyy2j]

I didn't like Johnny's exit especially the timing of it just as Carter mania kicks off :p and no Whitney to say goodbye to him is she still off visting Bianca?

As much as I dislike Kat and Alfie and their storyline at the moment, I am annoyed at Kat not allowing Alfie to see the kids, she is no angel either her affair with Derek didn't help them and Alfie was an idiot and fool for the fire but he didn't think anyone was in the house and he does love the kids

Yes don't like Jane being weak and getting back with Ian

[parkerman]

Absolutely, tammy. Using your children as a weapon to get back at your partner in that way is, in my opinion, as bad - if not worse - as setting fire to the house in the first place. Children should never never be used as pawns in that way.

[Dazzle]

Absolutely, tammy. Using your children as a weapon to get back at your partner in that way is, in my opinion, as bad - if not worse - as setting fire to the house in the first place. Children should never never be used as pawns in that way.

I absolutely agree with you, and was very careful not to do so with my own child.

However, in this case, I think Kat has a point. Alfie endangered her life and everyone else's in the vicinity. He's frankly dangerous in my view. The fact that he didn't intend to hurt anyone is neither here nor there. How many people suffer and die due to others' stupidity?

However, going back to my point about weak women in EE, I'm sure Kat'll forgive him in the end... :thumbsdow

[lizann]

the jane singing and proposing scene was awful

mick is so happy but not for long

[lizann]

the jane singing and proposing scene was awful

mick is so happy but not for long

[parkerman]

Jane proposing to Ian.:sick:

[Glen1]

Jane proposing to Ian so quickly after her return, particularly after the reasons for her previous departure . not her style imo. May somehow be linked to the L.B.plot ? But can't fathom how....:hmm:

[monalisa62003]

Phil looked miserable with sharon in last nights ep bring back the smile he had with shirley last week. excited for tonights episode

[lizann]

Phil looked miserable with sharon in last nights ep bring back the smile he had with shirley last week. excited for tonights episode

he is always miserable

[lizann]

Phil looked miserable with sharon in last nights ep bring back the smile he had with shirley last week. excited for tonights episode

he is always miserable

[monalisa62003]

he is always miserable

he wasnt miserable with shirley last week?

[monalisa62003]

he is always miserable

he wasnt miserable with shirley last week?

[lizann]

he's your brother so typical of eastenders

[tammyy2j]

As usual too much hype but still the best soap this Christmas for me

[xx_Dan_xx]

Tomorrow's episode probably has more action and todays just the reveal. Brother or Nephew, Mick should be killing Dean - not 3 punches and thats it.

[Dazzle]

Jane proposing to Ian so quickly after her return, particularly after the reasons for her previous departure . not her style imo. May somehow be linked to the L.B.plot ? But can't fathom how....:hmm:

I really hope you're right that there's more to it, Glen, because Jane deserves a more than becoming Ian's doormat for a second time. The worrying thing is that she's acting as if she's genuinely happy. :thumbsdow


he's your brother so typical of eastenders

I'm not sure what you mean by this. :searchme:

Unfortunately some people guessed the truth about Shirley being Mick's mother would be revealed as it did, which is a shame. If I hadn't have read those guesses, the ending would have shocked me.


Tomorrow's episode probably has more action and todays just the reveal. Brother or Nephew, Mick should be killing Dean - not 3 punches and thats it.

Agreed, especially the bit about Mick killing Dean. Why did Shirley have to get in the way??!! :angry:

I thought that was an incredibly tense episode and that the Mick and Linda scenes were very moving. The prolonged reveal scenes between Linda and Mick may have felt slow to some, but I felt they were needed as a catharsis after so much stress and secrecy.

I am sorry that Mick only got a few punches in before Shirley stopped him. I hope you're right Dan, and that Dean will get his comeuppance tomorrow. I'd like to see the police lead a severely injured Dean away in handcuffs personally... :ninja:

Do we really believe that Dean's so deluded he doesn't understand he's a rapist? I think (hope) that he's putting that on. :nono:

Cora's jealousy over the wife Stan hasn't seen for nearly 40 years was a bit over the top!

Overall, I thought it was an excellent episode of EE and I'm really looking forward to Boxing Day's episode. Now everything's out in the open there should be plenty of drama tomorrow.

[parkerman]

Sorry to disagree, Dazzle, but I thought that, after all the hype, it was a pretty poor episode, especially Shirley's "He's your brother" outburst. It sounded so unnatural to me. Why would she say that after all she's been through to try and keep Mick from learning the truth? Yes, I know she wanted him to stop beating Dean up, but that just sounded so false to me?

I also found the whole business with Stan's wife and what she does and doesn't remember and Cora's reaction pretty hard to fathom.

Compared to some of the great Christmas episodes of the past, I thought it was a bit duff. Its only redeeming feature was Max. He was great.

[parkerman]

.................

[Dazzle]

Sorry to disagree, Dazzle, but I thought that, after all the hype, it was a pretty poor episode, especially Shirley's "He's your brother" outburst. It sounded so unnatural to me. Why would she say that after all she's been through to try and keep Mick from learning the truth? Yes, I know she wanted him to stop beating Dean up, but that just sounded so false to me?

If you remember though, Babe stopped Shirley from revealing the truth several times during the episode. I think it's been made obvious from the start that Babe manipulated the whole situation and convinced Shirley (and possibly Sylvie too) to lie about being Mick's mum.

I think the main weakness is that Shirley's outburst at the end was predictable (since so many foresaw it happening). I'm excited to see what happens next though.


I also found the whole business with Stan's wife and what she does and doesn't remember and Cora's reaction pretty hard to fathom.

Agreed. Maybe there's more to the story than we've been told?


Compared to some of the great Christmas episodes of the past, I thought it was a bit duff.

I don't agree that it was duff lol, although maybe it didn't quite live up to the hype. :D

[xx_Dan_xx]

Yeah, I actually believe Dean is deluded enough to believe it wasn't rape. However, I am more concerned if in the future, Mick will start to doubt his wife's innocence. Should that ever happen, complete loss of faith in EE.

[Dazzle]

Yeah, I actually believe Dean is deluded enough to believe it wasn't rape. However, I am more concerned if in the future, Mick will start to doubt his wife's innocence. Should that ever happen, complete loss of faith in EE.

I'm absolutely convinced that Mick will not doubt Linda. He saw the devastation the rape caused her and knows that her explanation rings true to her behaviour. Dean also made some creepy comments about Linda just before she confessed all yesterday, so Mick can be in doubt that Dean is a sleazy misogynist. The icing on the cake is that Mick absolutely loves Linda to death. I think I'd too have a loss of faith in EE if Mick did something so out of character as to seriously doubt Linda, but I'm positive it won't happen.

It was disappointing that Shirley believed Dean but I felt it was in character and realistic that a woman would believe her own son over Linda (who she dislikes). I hope she changes her mind if and when she speaks to Linda though.

As for whether Dean truly believes he didn't rape Linda, I've been thinking about it and I'm more sure than ever that he cannot believe it deep down. I didn't see the rape episode but I've read how it went down: that Linda said no several times and struggled, and that Dean behaved very coldly during and after it. If he thought it was consensual, surely he'd have behaved affectionately towards her? Also, he's often intimidated her since the rape. He may be in denial but I can't believe he's deluded in a mental illness kind of way (and I also find the thought horrendous that the writers might go down the path of trying to elicit sympathy for Dean if that happens).

Parkerman...did you notice that I thanked your deleted double post? I did it before you deleted it, so I was actually thanking the original post you wrote not the blank one lol! :D

[xx_Dan_xx]

I'm absolutely convinced that Mick will not doubt Linda. He saw the devastation the rape caused her and knows that her explanation rings true to her behaviour. Dean also made some creepy comments about Linda just before she confessed all yesterday, so Mick can be in doubt that Dean is a sleazy misogynist. The icing on the cake is that Mick absolutely loves Linda to death. I think I'd too have a loss of faith in EE if Mick did something so out of character as to seriously doubt Linda, but I'm positive it won't happen.

It was disappointing that Shirley believed Dean but I felt it was in character and realistic that a woman would believe her own son over Linda (who she dislikes). I hope she changes her mind if and when she speaks to Linda though.

As for whether Dean truly believes he didn't rape Linda, I've been thinking about it and I'm more sure than ever that he cannot believe it deep down. I didn't see the rape episode but I've read how it went down: that Linda said no several times and struggled, and that Dean behaved very coldly during and after it. If he thought it was consensual, surely he'd have behaved affectionately towards her? Also, he's often intimidated her since the rape. He may be in denial but I can't believe he's deluded in a mental illness kind of way (and I also find the thought horrendous that the writers might go down the path of trying to elicit sympathy for Dean if that happens).

Parkerman...did you notice that I thanked your deleted double post? I did it before you deleted it, so I was actually thanking the original post you wrote not the blank one lol! :D

I did see the episode, he was drunk, upset and Linda was comforting him beforehand. It is plausible I guess but who knows what he believes.

We know it doesn't go to trial - is that because he gets away with it, murdered or does he hand himself in?

[xx_Dan_xx]

I'm absolutely convinced that Mick will not doubt Linda. He saw the devastation the rape caused her and knows that her explanation rings true to her behaviour. Dean also made some creepy comments about Linda just before she confessed all yesterday, so Mick can be in doubt that Dean is a sleazy misogynist. The icing on the cake is that Mick absolutely loves Linda to death. I think I'd too have a loss of faith in EE if Mick did something so out of character as to seriously doubt Linda, but I'm positive it won't happen.

It was disappointing that Shirley believed Dean but I felt it was in character and realistic that a woman would believe her own son over Linda (who she dislikes). I hope she changes her mind if and when she speaks to Linda though.

As for whether Dean truly believes he didn't rape Linda, I've been thinking about it and I'm more sure than ever that he cannot believe it deep down. I didn't see the rape episode but I've read how it went down: that Linda said no several times and struggled, and that Dean behaved very coldly during and after it. If he thought it was consensual, surely he'd have behaved affectionately towards her? Also, he's often intimidated her since the rape. He may be in denial but I can't believe he's deluded in a mental illness kind of way (and I also find the thought horrendous that the writers might go down the path of trying to elicit sympathy for Dean if that happens).

Parkerman...did you notice that I thanked your deleted double post? I did it before you deleted it, so I was actually thanking the original post you wrote not the blank one lol! :D

I did see the episode, he was drunk, upset and Linda was comforting him beforehand. It is plausible I guess but who knows what he believes.

We know it doesn't go to trial - is that because he gets away with it, murdered or does he hand himself in?

[tammyy2j]

I didn't like Cora's bitchness and jealousy towards Sylvie

[tammyy2j]

Jane proposing to Ian so quickly after her return, particularly after the reasons for her previous departure . not her style imo. May somehow be linked to the L.B.plot ? But can't fathom how....:hmm:

Why was Jane back in Walford in Massod's house that she saw Lauren the night Lucy was killed?

It really is like the writers have no idea what the outcome of Lucy's murder will be

[monalisa62003]

what happened to phil knowing shirley is micks mum secret, would he not think maybe mick knows and thats why hes trashing the vic??

[tammyy2j]

what happened to phil knowing shirley is micks mum secret, would he not think maybe mick knows and thats why hes trashing the vic??

Phil knows but I think he don't care about Shirley and her problems, he didn't even ask her where she was going when she left the pub with her bag

I did think we might have seen Phil try and talk to Mick

[tammyy2j]

When did Sharon become friends with Emma?

[xx_Dan_xx]

When did Sharon become friends with Emma?

Probably happened then

[xx_Dan_xx]

When did Sharon become friends with Emma?

Probably happened then

[monalisa62003]

Phil knows but I think he don't care about Shirley and her problems, he didn't even ask her where she was going when she left the pub with her bag

I did think we might have seen Phil try and talk to Mick

as if, after the way he was with her last week, theres no way he wouldnt care or react. i dont buy hes that happy with sharon and i dont buy he wouldnt react

[monalisa62003]

Phil knows but I think he don't care about Shirley and her problems, he didn't even ask her where she was going when she left the pub with her bag

I did think we might have seen Phil try and talk to Mick

as if, after the way he was with her last week, theres no way he wouldnt care or react. i dont buy hes that happy with sharon and i dont buy he wouldnt react

he cared enough not to drop shirley in it re the shooting and wanted to see her after. now she means nothing to him? sorry dont buy it

sharon was with him, and he told sharon he hated shirley.

[tammyy2j]

as if, after the way he was with her last week, theres no way he wouldnt care or react. i dont buy hes that happy with sharon and i dont buy he wouldnt react

But Phil was in the pub and he saw an upset Shirley leave with a bag and Mick thrash the place and did nothing, I know you are passionate about Phil and Shirley as a couple and them living happy ever after but somehow I don't think it will happen as too much has gone on

Danny Dyer's acting is very good

[parkerman]

You are an old romantic, monalisa. This is Phil Mitchell we're talking about!

[monalisa62003]

But Phil was in the pub and he saw an upset Shirley leave with a bag and Mick thrash the place and did nothing, I know you are passionate about Phil and Shirley as a couple and them living happy ever after but somehow I don't think it will happen as too much has gone on

Danny Dyer's acting is very goodsharon was there could he talk to shirley after he told sharon he hated shirley ?

do you buy phil and sharon is happily ever after?

[tammyy2j]

sharon was there could he talk to shirley after he told sharon he hated shirley ?

do you buy phil and sharon is happily ever after?

Phil could have gone out after Shirley, Sharon was enjoying herself with "new best pal Emma" and Ian's free sparkling wine :p

[monalisa62003]

You are an old romantic, monalisa. This is Phil Mitchell we're talking about!

i dont buy phil is that happy with sharon he doesnt act like he is. i dont buy phil wouldnt react to mick trashing up the vic. its not even in character. shirley wasnt there, mick was

[monalisa62003]

Phil could have gone out after Shirley, Sharon was enjoying herself with "new best pal Emma" and Ian's free sparkling wine :p
sharon doesnt want them anywhere near each other. she hates shirley

[monalisa62003]

Phil could have gone out after Shirley, Sharon was enjoying herself with "new best pal Emma" and Ian's free sparkling wine :p
sharon doesnt want them anywhere near each other. she hates shirley

[tammyy2j]

sharon doesnt want them anywhere near each other. she hates shirley

Sharon didn't need to know, Phil could have slipped out of the pub after Shirley

Sharon seemed tipsy so wouldn't have noticed he left

[tammyy2j]

I don't think Charlie wants Nick gone as well as Dot

[monalisa62003]

Sharon didn't need to know, Phil could have slipped out of the pub after Shirley

Sharon seemed tipsy so wouldn't have noticed he left

not sure he would risk it. i just dont buy he wouldnt cotton on or there wouldnt be a subtle reaction he knew why mick was kicking off.

[monalisa62003]

Sharon didn't need to know, Phil could have slipped out of the pub after Shirley

Sharon seemed tipsy so wouldn't have noticed he left

not sure he would risk it. i just dont buy he wouldnt cotton on or there wouldnt be a subtle reaction he knew why mick was kicking off.

[tammyy2j]

not sure he would risk it. i just dont buy he wouldnt cotton on or there wouldnt be a subtle reaction he knew why mick was kicking off. =

I was expecting someone to try and stop Mick and ask what was up and did think it would be Phil or even Lee

[tammyy2j]

If Linda is gone to her mother's pub, hope she brings Elaine back with her

[monalisa62003]

I was expecting someone to try and stop Mick and ask what was up and did think it would be Phil or even Lee

exactly makes no sense for phil not to react

[monalisa62003]

I was expecting someone to try and stop Mick and ask what was up and did think it would be Phil or even Lee

exactly makes no sense for phil not to react esp if mick was hurting people its not just about shirley its about everyone, surprised if sharon didnt encourage phil to try and stop it

itd make more sense if he was ignoring shirley on purpose after how happy he was last week and didn't want sharon finding out he knew or couldnt help incase it annoyed sharon. just struggling buying phil & sharon is happy ever after

[lizann]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. :searchme:
.

as you said it was predicted by many as we had the kat/zoe reveal done before

tonight's episode was better than xmas day's episode, loved mick going mental, shirley knows dean is messed up yet still believes him wonder where they will live now

[lizann]

i dont buy phil is that happy with sharon he doesnt act like he is. i dont buy phil wouldnt react to mick trashing up the vic. its not even in character. shirley wasnt there, mick was

can phil ever be happy with anyone :p

[monalisa62003]

can phil ever be happy with anyone :p

sharon is meant to be the love of his life and he has waited 20 years to marry her..and yes as i keep saying he was very happy in the scenes with shirley last week

phil is still lying to sharon about knowing shirley is micks mum. the writers cant honestly expect us to forget this

what was with him suggesting ronnie kill nick????

[parkerman]

I think Phil offered to kill Nick himself.

[Dazzle]

do you buy phil and sharon is happily ever after?

Probably not, but I think it's the writers' intention to keep them together for the foreseeable future.


i dont buy phil wouldnt react to mick trashing up the vic. its not even in character. shirley wasnt there, mick was

Phil simply doesn't care enough about the Carters to get involved. As you say, Shirley wasn't even there.


I think Phil offered to kill Nick himself.

He did, yes, but Ronnie said no (for Charlie and Dot's sake). I think she's regretting it now! :D

I hope everyone was satisfied with the Boxing Day episode. We were given the high drama and action that many felt were missing Christmas Day. I absolutely loved it but I wish we'd had an hour-long episode again. Maybe it was a good thing though as the writing was tighter this time.

Poor Mick's life's in tatters (but his fury was pretty awesome to behold!). I'm soooo relieved he didn't doubt Linda for a moment. I'm a bit worried about Nancy's reaction though as she's doubted her mother about Dean in the past.

I'm very glad that the mother reveal didn't overshadow the rape reveal. There's plenty of time for Mick to come to terms with Shirley being his mother now - as long as she finally accepts that Dean's a rapist.

The way everyone scurried out of the way of the furious Mick really made me laugh lol. :D

10/10

[parkerman]

Yes, Dazzle, I agree. The Boxing Day episode was much better than the Christmas Day one.

[monalisa62003]

Probably not, but I think it's the writers' intention to keep them together for the foreseeable future.



Phil simply doesn't care enough about the Carters to get involved. As you say, Shirley wasn't even there.



He did, yes, but Ronnie said no (for Charlie and Dot's sake). I think she's regretting it now! :D

I hope everyone was satisfied with the Boxing Day episode. We were given the high drama and action that many felt were missing Christmas Day. I absolutely loved it but I wish we'd had an hour-long episode again. Maybe it was a good thing though as the writing was tighter this time.

Poor Mick's life's in tatters (but his fury was pretty awesome to behold!). I'm soooo relieved he didn't doubt Linda for a moment. I'm a bit worried about Nancy's reaction though as she's doubted her mother about Dean in the past.

I'm very glad that the mother reveal didn't overshadow the rape reveal. There's plenty of time for Mick to come to terms with Shirley being his mother now - as long as she finally accepts that Dean's a rapist.

The way everyone scurried out of the way of the furious Mick really made me laugh lol. :D

10/10the writers are acting like they are the happily ever after. they've had no issues or anything since the wedding

phil would NEVER leave the vic lying down without wanting to know why they're being chucked out. he was banging on the door to get in the vic in the first place. its not in character for him to be ok with being told to get out, its not about the carters, its about principal in character that he just wouldnt leave like that and be OK about it. mick was hurting people, even sharon didnt seem that concerned? im thiinking phil guessed why mick did it and doesnt want sharon to find out

im annoyed shirleys secret has been overshadowed. ive waited all year for her reveal and its not been given the attention it deserved

[Dazzle]

the writers are acting like they are the happily ever after. they've had no issues or anything since the wedding

It's called the honeymoon period. It won't last....


phil would NEVER leave the vic lying down without wanting to know why they're being chucked out. he was banging on the door to get in the vic in the first place. its not in character for him to be ok with being told to get out, its not about the carters, its about principal in character that he just wouldnt leave like that and be OK about it. mick was hurting people, even sharon didnt seem that concerned? im thiinking phil guessed why mick did it and doesnt want sharon to find out

While I agree that it would have been in character for Phil to protest loudly at Mick's behaviour, I also don't find it out of character that he didn't, for the following reasons: it was Christmas Day, Phil was with his family, he was in an excellent mood, he's not close to the Carters (except for Shirley) and maybe he's even mellowing slightly as he grows older lol. :D


im annoyed shirleys secret has been overshadowed. ive waited all year for her reveal and its not been given the attention it deserved

It will be given the attention it deserves, but the rape needed to be given the attention it deserved after Linda revealed it to Mick. There's no way he was going to react well to Shirley's reveal given that he was traumatised after having just found out that Dean had raped his wife, and, even worse, that Shirley had believed Dean's word over Linda's.

I've no doubt the mother reveal will be explored at length and that it will make fantastic TV. Danny Dyer and Linda Henry work brilliantly together and their scenes should make mesmerising viewing.

[monalisa62003]

It's called the honeymoon period. It won't last....



While I agree that it would have been in character for Phil to protest loudly at Mick's behaviour, I also don't find it out of character that he didn't, for the following reasons: it was Christmas Day, Phil was with his family, he was in an excellent mood, he's not close to the Carters (except for Shirley) and maybe he's even mellowing slightly as he grows older lol. :D



It will be given the attention it deserves, but the rape needed to be given the attention it deserved after Linda revealed it to Mick. There's no way he was going to react well to Shirley's reveal given that he was traumatised after having just found out that Dean had raped his wife, and, even worse, that Shirley had believed Dean's word over Linda's.

I've no doubt the mother reveal will be explored at length and that it will make fantastic TV. Danny Dyer and Linda Henry work brilliantly together and their scenes should make mesmerising viewing.

well i dont see phil acting like its the honeymoon period, sharon is. phils just always grumpy (oh except when he saw shirley as an elf :P)

phil wasnt in an excellent mood. he looked like he was in his normal grumpy mood. sharon is best mates with linda, she would be worrying for her like she has been since linda was going nuts since the rape. even if phil doesnt care about the carters, mick was going insane and hurting people. any sane person would

it deserved more attention at christmas now christmas 2014 weill be remembered for the rape and mick trashig rhe vic, not shirlesyr reveal

[monalisa62003]

It's called the honeymoon period. It won't last....



While I agree that it would have been in character for Phil to protest loudly at Mick's behaviour, I also don't find it out of character that he didn't, for the following reasons: it was Christmas Day, Phil was with his family, he was in an excellent mood, he's not close to the Carters (except for Shirley) and maybe he's even mellowing slightly as he grows older lol. :D



It will be given the attention it deserves, but the rape needed to be given the attention it deserved after Linda revealed it to Mick. There's no way he was going to react well to Shirley's reveal given that he was traumatised after having just found out that Dean had raped his wife, and, even worse, that Shirley had believed Dean's word over Linda's.

I've no doubt the mother reveal will be explored at length and that it will make fantastic TV. Danny Dyer and Linda Henry work brilliantly together and their scenes should make mesmerising viewing.

well i dont see phil acting like its the honeymoon period, sharon is. phils just always grumpy (oh except when he saw shirley as an elf :P) and rarely pays sharon attention do they even kiss outside the house??

phil wasnt in an excellent mood. he looked like he was in his normal grumpy mood. sharon is best mates with linda, she would be worrying for her like she has been since linda was going nuts since the rape. even if phil doesnt care about the carters, mick was going insane and hurting people. any sane person would think what he was doing wasnt right and people didnt deserve their xmas ruined. i think phil would want to distract sharon from asking questions incase she found out he knew

it deserved more attention at christmas now christmas 2014 weill be remembered for the rape and mick trashig rhe vic, not shirlesyr reveal

[Dazzle]

even if phil doesnt care about the carters, mick was going insane and hurting people. any sane person would think what he was doing wasnt right and people didnt deserve their xmas ruined.

Mick was definitely going insane but nobody actually got hurt except for himself. He pushed a few people out of the way that's all. Not nice for them of course, but they didn't sustain any damage.

Phil isn't exactly empathic and would have zero sympathy for a bunch of randoms being pushed out of the Vic. If Mick had done that to any of the Mitchells it would've been a very different story of course.


it deserved more attention at christmas now christmas 2014 weill be remembered for the rape and mick trashig rhe vic, not shirlesyr reveal

Agreed - Mick trashing the Vic will be this remembered as the most memorable event this Christmas. Some people think the two reveals should have happened separately, but I really like how it was done personally. The fallout from them both will continue for months no doubt.

[monalisa62003]

does sharon being lindas best mate not count for phil then?

i just find it hard to believe there'd be no reaction from phil and sharon

[lizann]

does sharon being lindas best mate not count for phil then?

i just find it hard to believe there'd be no reaction from phil and sharon

sharon didn't care about mick or linda and phil not about shirley or her family

[lizann]

does sharon being lindas best mate not count for phil then?

i just find it hard to believe there'd be no reaction from phil and sharon

sharon didn't care about mick or linda and phil not about shirley or her family

[xx_Dan_xx]

sharon didn't care about mick or linda and phil not about shirley or her family

Linda and Sharron are besties though and Sharon knew someone has been wrong with Linda for awhile. Perhaps they'll get involved t a later date when shes finds out Linda has gone.

[xx_Dan_xx]

sharon didn't care about mick or linda and phil not about shirley or her family

Linda and Sharron are besties though and Sharon knew someone has been wrong with Linda for awhile. Perhaps they'll get involved t a later date when shes finds out Linda has gone.

[lizann]

Linda and Sharron are besties though and Sharon knew someone has been wrong with Linda for awhile. Perhaps they'll get involved t a later date when shes finds out Linda has gone.

sharon will think linda slept with dean, they argued before over linda's kiss with dean, sharon said she lead him on

[lizann]

Linda and Sharron are besties though and Sharon knew someone has been wrong with Linda for awhile. Perhaps they'll get involved t a later date when shes finds out Linda has gone.

sharon will think linda slept with dean, they argued before over linda's kiss with dean, sharon said she lead him on

[Dazzle]

Linda and Sharron are besties though and Sharon knew someone has been wrong with Linda for awhile. Perhaps they'll get involved t a later date when shes finds out Linda has gone.

Most people would scarper quick smart if they had a furious Danny Dyer bearing down on them! :D

Seriously though, Linda wasn't there so there was no reason to suspect she was in imminent danger. There were plenty of other Carters in residence. We don't know how the people ejected from the Vic reacted yet. Sharon may have phoned Linda, for instance. The police may even have been phoned.

I think we have to accept with soaps that not all interactions will be shown and that we have to fill in the blanks ourselves.

[Dazzle]

sharon will think linda slept with dean, they argued before over linda's kiss with dean, sharon said she lead him on

Yes, that's a sad possibility, however Sharon does know there's been something seriously wrong with Linda recently, and that a "customer" harassed her, so I'm hoping she won't doubt Linda.

I'm more worried about Nancy's reaction.

[monalisa62003]

Linda and Sharron are besties though and Sharon knew someone has been wrong with Linda for awhile. Perhaps they'll get involved t a later date when shes finds out Linda has gone.this. for phil not to care about what sharon thought or her friends isnt in character. or does phil not love sharon that much not to care. i think i buy it more that phil doesnt want sharon finding out he knew Shirleys secret.

[monalisa62003]

Most people would scarper quick smart if they had a furious Danny Dyer bearing down on them! :D

Seriously though, Linda wasn't there so there was no reason to suspect she was in imminent danger. There were plenty of other Carters in residence. We don't know how the people ejected from the Vic reacted yet. Sharon may have phoned Linda, for instance. The police may even have been phoned.

I think we have to accept with soaps that not all interactions will be shown and that we have to fill in the blanks ourselves.

linda wasn't there, but its lindas pub do you honestly buy sharon not caring about her best mates husband trashing her pub?

[monalisa62003]

Most people would scarper quick smart if they had a furious Danny Dyer bearing down on them! :D

Seriously though, Linda wasn't there so there was no reason to suspect she was in imminent danger. There were plenty of other Carters in residence. We don't know how the people ejected from the Vic reacted yet. Sharon may have phoned Linda, for instance. The police may even have been phoned.

I think we have to accept with soaps that not all interactions will be shown and that we have to fill in the blanks ourselves.

linda wasn't there, but its lindas pub do you honestly buy sharon not caring about her best mates husband trashing her pub?

[Dazzle]

linda wasn't there, but its lindas pub do you honestly buy sharon not caring about her best mates husband trashing her pub?

That's why I said Sharon may have phoned Linda or even the police. We don't know what happened next (and we may never know).

[monalisa62003]

That's why I said Sharon may have phoned Linda or even the police. We don't know what happened next (and we may never know).

anyhow, i dont buy in this phil and sharon honeymoon period. he doesnt seem overly interested he doesnt care about sharons thoughts of her best mates pub being trashed.heck, he didnt care about suggesting they kill sharons oldest mates son :P i dont know what your seeing that im not. it doesnt even matter if he isnt interested in shirley either, he just isnt interested in Sharon that much. hes kicking off next week and is being nasty to everyone if this marriage lasts its a joke

[Dazzle]

anyhow, i dont buy in this phil and sharon honeymoon period. he doesnt seem overly interested he doesnt care about sharons thoughts of her best mates pub being trashed.heck, he didnt care about suggesting they kill sharons oldest mates son :P i dont know what your seeing that im not. it doesnt even matter if he isnt interested in shirley either, he just isnt interested in Sharon that much. hes kicking off next week and is being nasty to everyone if this marriage lasts its a joke

The honeymoon period may have been an extremely short one! :D

Like all the Mitchells, Phil only really cares about famerlee so it doesn't surprise me when he doesn't give a damn for others around him. He does care occasionally, when the mood takes him, but he's a very selfish man at heart. Anyway, hopefully we'll find out the truth about what the community (including Sharon and Phil) thinks about Mick trashing the Vic during the next episode.

I'm signing off now. Goodnight Mona (and anyone else who's reading). :)

[monalisa62003]

The honeymoon period may have been an extremely short one! :D

Like all the Mitchells, Phil only really cares about famerlee so it doesn't surprise me when he doesn't give a damn for others around him. He does care occasionally, when the mood takes him, but he's a very selfish man at heart. Anyway, hopefully we'll find out the truth about what the community (including Sharon and Phil) thinks about Mick trashing the Vic during the next episode.

I'm signing off now. Goodnight Mona (and anyone else who's reading). :)this is why it was different with shirley. in 2011 phil actually went to get heather to bring over for shirley as they had fallen out. he let heather live with them when he couldnt stand her. if phil is supposed to be so madly in love with sharon, he would care about her welfare and her feelings. i think people forget what phil did for shirley as their recent thing has overshadowed it all

thought you meant the honeymoon period was still going as they still dont have any issues between them. phil and shirley were a lot closer after their non wedding. does sharon even know ben is dating abi

I find it funny dom said linda henry would be used more with the carters, but shes used less than she was with the mitchells. at least she wasnt overshadowed with them and the heather reveal actually overshadowed sharons return

i realize i go on abit, but im annoyed at how shirls secret is overshadowed and were not being delivered what was promised. some people dont even like her with the carters and are glad mick and linda chucked her out they didnt want her with phil and they dont want her with the carters she cant win

[Ruffed_lemur]

Where has Linda gone? Hope she's back soon.

[lizann]

i did find sonia leaving the pub funny

[tammyy2j]

does sharon being lindas best mate not count for phil then?

i just find it hard to believe there'd be no reaction from phil and sharon

Yes I was surprised Sharon didn't ask Phil to ask Mick what was wrong and where Linda was but hopefully tonight more will be shown

[lizann]

philip could not get any peace and quite time and he sure didn't seem to care one ounce about shirley or her family sorry monalisa true love is not shining through

mick or linda will have tell the kids as nancy thinks affair

[lizann]

philip could not get any peace and quite time and he sure didn't seem to care one ounce about shirley or her family sorry monalisa true love is not shining through

mick or linda will have tell the kids as nancy thinks affair

[monalisa62003]

philip could not get any peace and quite time and he sure didn't seem to care one ounce about shirley or her family sorry monalisa true love is not shining through

mick or linda will have tell the kids as nancy thinks affair
it wasnt just about shirley though was it. sharon was worrying about linda and phil couldnt give rats arseabout her, at lest ive been told he was willing to give shirley money till he knew it was for dean.and phil knows shirley is micks mother yet is lying to sharon about it. didnt he say hedidnt know why mick lasshed out

[monalisa62003]

philip could not get any peace and quite time and he sure didn't seem to care one ounce about shirley or her family sorry monalisa true love is not shining through

mick or linda will have tell the kids as nancy thinks affair
it wasnt just about shirley though was it. sharon was worrying about linda and phil couldnt give rats **** about her, at lest ive been told he was willing to give shirley money till he knew it was for dean.and phil knows shirley is micks mother yet is lying to sharon about it. didnt he say hedidnt know why mick lasshed out if he told sharon shirley is micks mum maybe she wouldnt need to worry as much. i think you'll find phil getting fed up about sharon caring about her mates is less true love than willing to give his ex who shot him money and ye i know he chucked her out but only cos the others wanted her out

my point is phil does care about shirley or else he would have got rid of her himself as soon as she came in the house

[Dazzle]

Lovely scenes between Linda and Mick again last night - I must admit they had me welling up. I'm glad Linda was feeling strong enough to tell her mother and Sharon the truth.

Shirley really put the cat among the pigeons by telling Ronnie about the money! :D

[monalisa62003]

just watched it. i think phil wanted shirley to go cos hes worried sharon might find out he knew shirl is micks mum. think shirl was referring to it when she said thats why he didnt want her there. he was willing to give her the money before she mentioned dean. phil didnt want to throw shirley out like that he was actually listening to her i think he understands more cos he knows

[xx_Dan_xx]

just watched it. i think phil wanted shirley to go cos hes worried sharon might find out he knew shirl is micks mum. think shirl was referring to it when she said thats why he didnt want her there. he was willing to give her the money before she mentioned dean. phil didnt want to throw shirley out like that he was actually listening to her i think he understands more cos he knows

I think you're over complicating it. He wanted Shirley to go in the kitchen because 1 she shot him and sharron knows about him and her before the wedding so they are not going to want to hang out with her now are they.

As for not getting her out instantly when she went into the lounge, well that was more Sharron wanted Linda round/Phil wasnt involved in it. Had phil been i volved he probably would have, but he isnt so he had no reason to get involved until sharron/Elaine told him to get her out.

[xx_Dan_xx]

.

[xx_Dan_xx]

Do you guys think we could figure out who the killer is based on rvidence we know and figure what what emma just figured out or its just a plot point and we cant/dont have the evidence to figure it out, if that makes sense.

[parkerman]

Because the killer is not going to be named until February my guess would be we don't have all the evidence yet. Otherwise some clever dicks will work it out and spread it all round the Internet, completely spoiling the final reveal.

[lizann]

Do you guys think we could figure out who the killer is based on rvidence we know and figure what what emma just figured out or its just a plot point and we cant/dont have the evidence to figure it out, if that makes sense.

so whose mobile number does emma have, looks to be jane or dean to me

[lizann]

Do you guys think we could figure out who the killer is based on rvidence we know and figure what what emma just figured out or its just a plot point and we cant/dont have the evidence to figure it out, if that makes sense.

so whose mobile number does emma have, looks to be jane or dean to me

[Glen1]

so whose mobile number does emma have, looks to be jane or dean to me
Might also be that Detective Sergeant ?

[maidmarian]

Because the killer is not going to be named until February my guess would be we don't have all the evidence yet. Otherwise some clever dicks will work it out and spread it all round the Internet, completely spoiling the final reveal.

you dont think its possible not finally
made their minds up who it is yet?
I did read some time ago that the
killer knew it waa them -but they
could change their minds?

[maidmarian]

Because the killer is not going to be named until February my guess would be we don't have all the evidence yet. Otherwise some clever dicks will work it out and spread it all round the Internet, completely spoiling the final reveal.

you dont think its possible not finally
made their minds up who it is yet?
I did read some time ago that the
killer knew it waa them -but they
could change their minds?

[tammyy2j]

Why didn't Emma go straight to the police if she knows who the killer is

Only the Beales and Brannings would have Emma's number and her theirs and use her name Emma with them, could Denise be a suspect now too? I am thinking Abi more now

I am glad Kim is back

[xx_Dan_xx]

Yeah, leaning away from Max but someone close to her.

Still want to know whether we could actually figure it out now like Emma or she has something we dont.

[xx_Dan_xx]

Yeah, leaning away from Max but someone close to her.

Still want to know whether we could actually figure it out now like Emma or she has something we dont.

[tammyy2j]

Yeah, leaning away from Max but someone close to her.

Still want to know whether we could actually figure it out now like Emma or she has something we dont.

She came out of the pub and was looking at Ian's house and B&B house, I think Kim's return helped her crack the case :p

[monalisa62003]

I think you're over complicating it. He wanted Shirley to go in the kitchen because 1 she shot him and sharron knows about him and her before the wedding so they are not going to want to hang out with her now are they.

As for not getting her out instantly when she went into the lounge, well that was more Sharron wanted Linda round/Phil wasnt involved in it. Had phil been i volved he probably would have, but he isnt so he had no reason to get involved until sharron/Elaine told him to get her out.if that was the case why did

a) phil apologise to shirley and tell her he deserved it
b) talk to her in the vic and bantered with her

he doesnt care about sharons feelings at all re shirley. if he did, he wouldnt have done the above. he backstabs sharon and acts all nicey nicey when shes around. he doesnt care about shirley shooting him, hes made that perfectly clear he didnt even care shirley told ronnie about the money. he doesnt hate shirley and doesnt blame her for anything shes done to him.

phil knows shirley is micks mum and doesnt want sharon to find out, or else he wouldve told her. he was understanding of shirleys willingness to see mick once she was there. he didnt want to have to chuck her out. he told her there was mates round, so he had no reason to assume shirley would cause an issue.

i actually said the reason phil didnt help shirley in friday was cos sharon hated shirley, and i got told phil could slip out and help her without sharon noticing. im struggling believing any of this makes sense

[Glen1]

Can someone confirm what Emma said on her mobile phone, was it she knows who , or you killed Lucy Beale.

[Perdita]

She said : I know YOU killed Lucy Beale, Cindy is still alive

[Dazzle]

I don't know what the hell Emma realised but I'm intrigued. I sadly think you must be correct, Parkerman, that we won't be able to work it out on what we've been given. Seeing Denise/Dean and the B&B appeared to trigger a thought or memory, and she was very interested in the layout of the square. I also think whatever Emma realised was connected with the video that she was looking at earlier in the episode.


Why didn't Emma go straight to the police if she knows who the killer is

There's only one reason that makes sense and that's that she's close to the killer and wants to speak to them to be certain before going to the police. That really only leaves Max, Lauren, Abi and the Beales (including Jane) as far as I can tell.


Can someone confirm what Emma said on her mobile phone, was it she knows who , or you killed Cindy Beale.

I can confirm that Perdita's correct because I had the subtitles on. Emma said "I know you killed Lucy".

How did Phil get so much of Archie's money? I know he and Shirley stole twenty grand from Roxy several years ago, but he appears to have a lot more than that going by what Ronnie said. Does this explain how Roxy ludicrously ran through the three million she inherited from Archie in a couple of years or so? Did Phil somehow siphon some of it off? That would explain why he's well off, although I've always thought that he's probably still involved in dodgy deals even though we're not privy to them.

Is Nick now gone for good? I doubt it was that easy. He was very interested in the wedding preparations!


im struggling believing any of this makes sense

Mona, you're struggling to make sense of it because you can't see the wood for the trees. To most of us not heavily invested in whether Phil loves Shirley or Sharon, it appears that he's happy in his marriage with Sharon for the time being despite everything that's gone before. He still cares for Shirley (after all they've been friends for years) and might want a relationship with her again in the future, but I don't think any more can be said than that from what's been played out recently.

There's no point picking at every plot hole because the writers are only human and not every single scene can make perfect sense. There's lots of writers and things get missed or forgotten. You analyse every word and look exchanged between Phil and Shirley, and I'm afraid a fictional story just isn't going to stand up to such close scrutiny. The writers intend a scene to be played a certain way, but that can then be interpreted quite differently by the director of the scene and the actors (who might have been thinking about something completely different during filming when they give a look that you ascribe to true love). You just can't expect perfect consistency in those circumstances.

Also, you have to remember that in real life people are often inconsistent too. We're humans and not robots.

You asked in an earlier post what I'm seeing that you're not. The answer is that I can be more objective about Phil/Shirley/Sharon because I feel a great deal less strongly about them than you do.

[Glen1]

Thanks Perdita on both counts ,I meant Lucy.....:o

[parkerman]

Mona, you're struggling to make sense of it because you can't see the wood for the trees. To most of us not heavily invested in whether Phil loves Shirley or Sharon, it appears that he's happy in his marriage with Sharon for the time being despite everything that's gone before. He still cares for Shirley (after all they've been friends for years) and might want a relationship with her again in the future, but I don't think any more can be said than that from what's been played out recently.

There's no point picking at every plot hole because the writers are only human and not every single scene can make perfect sense. There's lots of writers and things get missed or forgotten. You analyse every word and look exchanged between Phil and Shirley, and I'm afraid a fictional story just isn't going to stand up to such close scrutiny. The writers intend a scene to be played a certain way, but that can then be interpreted quite differently by the director of the scene and the actors (who might have been thinking about something completely different during filming when they give a look that you ascribe to true love). You just can't expect perfect consistency in those circumstances.

Also, you have to remember that in real life people are often inconsistent too. We're humans and not robots.

You asked in an earlier post what I'm seeing that you're not. The answer is that I can be more objective about Phil/Shirley/Sharon because I feel a great deal less strongly about them than you do.

Absolutely spot on, Dazzle.

[Dazzle]

Absolutely spot on, Dazzle.

Thanks! :)

[monalisa62003]

Mona, you're struggling to make sense of it because you can't see the wood for the trees. To most of us not heavily invested in whether Phil loves Shirley or Sharon, it appears that he's happy in his marriage with Sharon for the time being despite everything that's gone before. He still cares for Shirley (after all they've been friends for years) and might want a relationship with her again in the future, but I don't think any more can be said than that from what's been played out recently.

There's no point picking at every plot hole because the writers are only human and not every single scene can make perfect sense. There's lots of writers and things get missed or forgotten. You analyse every word and look exchanged between Phil and Shirley, and I'm afraid a fictional story just isn't going to stand up to such close scrutiny. The writers intend a scene to be played a certain way, but that can then be interpreted quite differently by the director of the scene and the actors (who might have been thinking about something completely different during filming when they give a look that you ascribe to true love). You just can't expect perfect consistency in those circumstances.

Also, you have to remember that in real life people are often inconsistent too. We're humans and not robots.

You asked in an earlier post what I'm seeing that you're not. The answer is that I can be more objective about Phil/Shirley/Sharon because I feel a great deal less strongly about them than you do.

How is phil happy with sharon? did you see him smile at the table at ronnies dinner? the scene outside the house on xmas eve, phil is trying to smile but hes failing to keep a smile on his face. didnt you see him smile with shirley at the grotto scenes? loads of people commented that phil was actually happy in this episode, so it wasnt just me. the only time he probably has smiled about sharon was the stockings episode..and thats cos it was mainly about sex!
have phil and sharon kissed on the lips outside the house? even in a few minutes scene phil is actually talking to shirley and listening to her. i dont see him talking to sharon like he should talk to his wife. he hasnt confided in her about anything. in the scene with ben and johnnys present you can tell phil thinks ben is still gay. has he mentioned this to sharon?

i dont buy phil is that in love with sharon. he doesnt seem bothered in the preview either!
. theres no way phil is over the moon being with sharon or hell over heels in love with her. how anyone can think this baffles me

why was he suddenly so hostile towards shirley when he was fine with her before since she returned to the point he was bantering with her.

he has backstabbed sharon at least twice since the wedding and is STILL lying to her about knowing shirley is micks mum. hardly true love to me keeping your ex's secret !

i meant it didnt make sense cos people were giving me mixed opinions ie phil couldnt have shirley in the house cos of sharon but he could slip away and help shirley in fridays episode

i am allowed my own view and i just dont see what your seeing. thats why im debating it. its nothing to do with biased view, i just dont see the connection with phil and sharon that appears to me hes madly in love with her i cant exactly force myself or believe in something that isnt there

[parkerman]

I'm afraid it looks as though you are going to have to remain baffled, mona, as the rest of us really couldn't care less.

[monalisa62003]

I'm afraid it looks as though you are going to have to remain baffled, mona, as the rest of us really couldn't care less.

bit rude, you didnt need to reply if you didnt care. im making plenty of valid points why phil isnt that happy with sharon

[monalisa62003]

I'm afraid it looks as though you are going to have to remain baffled, mona, as the rest of us really couldn't care less.

bit rude, you didnt need to reply if you didnt care. im making plenty of valid points why phil isnt that happy with sharon

this is exactly what happened on the other forums. people didnt like my view so were rude to me. theres nothing i havent put that isnt true about phil re sharon. he might appear to want to spend time with her but he isnt happy when he is with her - you only have to watch the preview to see that( it has spoilers though for tomorrows ep)

[parkerman]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[xx_Dan_xx]

I think if the killer was Max/Lauren, why wouldnt Emma confront them when they came home looking for her. And the way she called the killer "oh im glad i got a hold of you" - or something along those lines suggests its someone she hadnt immediately seen, ie Max or Lauren.

[Dazzle]

this is exactly what happened on the other forums. people didnt like my view so were rude to me

It's not that people don't like your views. It's the same debate on an endless cycle that people don't enjoy.

The thing is that you're so focused on Phil and Shirley that you can't understand that most other people just aren't that interested in them. They're just one thread of the large fabric of the EastEnders most of us love. To you it's interesting to go over the same points again and again, whereas to the rest of us it gets boring fast I'm afraid.

I enjoy debating with you but I've said my piece several times and other people are getting frustrated, so I'm going to give it a rest now. If, as you believe, Phil and Sharon are going to crash and burn soon, there may be nothing to debate anyway.

Do you enjoy any other aspects of EE, Mona? :)


I think if the killer was Max/Lauren, why wouldnt Emma confront them when they came home looking for her. And the way she called the killer "oh im glad i got a hold of you" - or something along those lines suggests its someone she hadnt immediately seen, ie Max or Lauren.

Not confronting Max or Lauren (and possibly Abi) at home could be explained by Emma wanting to get them alone I suppose - but I agree it's a stretch.

You make an excellent point about the phrase "I'm glad I got hold of you". It does sound like it's someone she hadn't seen for a little while.

You're a pretty good detective, Dan!

[xx_Dan_xx]

You're a pretty good detective, Dan!

Thanks lol but watch it be one of them now xD.

At the moment, I am stuck between Jane or Abi. I am trying to figure out what Emma had figured out. Regrettably I actually didn't see Lucy's last episode.

[xx_Dan_xx]

.

[tammyy2j]

Is Cora leaving because she is guilty? Was Emma talking about Max's car not being there the night Lucy died?

I thought EE was going to kill off Ronnie

[tammyy2j]

.

[xx_Dan_xx]

So Emma said to Max "It wasnt there" so maybe Max is covering up for the real killer, Abi ?? Maybe it was the car taking Lucy's body to the common.

[tammyy2j]

I don't like that Denise has been hurting Patrick but I did think we might this type of storyline for her before

[Dazzle]

Brilliantly tense episode!


I thought EE was going to kill off Ronnie

I kept prevaricating between Ronnie and Emma. I heard that someone died this episode, and of course Ronnie did technically die. I was very glad that she lived though. I still think Emma might die due to her head wound as it's hard to see how the secret's going to be kept for another six weeks if she lives.


Was Emma talking about Max's car not being there the night Lucy died?


So Emma said to Max "It wasnt there" so maybe Max is covering up for the real killer, Abi ?? Maybe it was the car taking Lucy's body to the common.

I got the feeling that when Emma was looking at the video earlier in the evening, she may have been looking at the car parked in front of the Beale's house rather than Lauren. Whoever's it is, maybe it shouldn't have been there and proves the owner's alibi false?

As for what she said to Max, that could refer to something completely different. He went back to the house to get rid of evidence in a recent episode. Could that be what wasn't there?

Given that Emma called the killing "murder" to the person she met, I think we can definitively conclude that Lucy's death was murder and not accidental (and that the killer knows full well they're guilty) despite the persistent rumours otherwise. Anyone disagree with this assessment?

I heard there were supposed to be eleven suspects revealed this episode. When Emma sent the text, the camera panned around to the people who could have received it. I can remember Ben, Jay, Lee, Whitney, Max, Lauren, Abi, Peter, Les, Pam and Cindy. Were Ian and Jane there? If so, that's more than eleven. At least we know Lola and Billy are definitely ruled out.

[parkerman]

Yes, Ian and Jane were also in the sequence. They were both in the cafe; Jane was seen coming out of the loo with her phone and Ian was just standing in the cafe with his phone. Lola and Billy were also shown with their phones but we know it can't be them as they were seen going to the wedding at the same time as Emma was meeting the murderer.

[tammyy2j]

The final shortlist of suspects are Ian, Jane, Cindy, Pam, Les, Denise, Jay, Ben, Peter, Lauren, Abi, Lee, Whitney and Max

Emma would have Pam's mobile number too as she knows Pam's past secret and would go by Emma to her but if one of the Crokers are the killer then I think that is a let down big time

[Dazzle]

That's fourteen suspects at the moment then. I guess the outsiders will start to be eliminated now building up the to 30th anniversary.

I agree the Cokers would be disappointing. The murderer really needs to be someone close to Lucy, and an important character, to make the reveal satisfying.

[parkerman]

I can't quite remember what it was now, but I think there was some reason why it couldn't have been the Cokers. Something to do with the timing of Emma's visit to the park. I'll have to watch it again now....

[Dazzle]

I can't quite remember what it was now, but I think there was some reason why it couldn't have been the Cokers. Something to do with the timing of Emma's visit to the park. I'll have to watch it again now....

Yes please. You can report back to us! :D

[tammyy2j]

I can't quite remember what it was now, but I think there was some reason why it couldn't have been the Cokers. Something to do with the timing of Emma's visit to the park. I'll have to watch it again now....

We still don't really know the Crokers secret

Also did Max burn Emma's file on the case and why did she leave it be seen around at Max's house?

Was Roxy breathalysed as she was drinking

[lizann]

lol'd at emma looking at everyone like they are the killer, anna acton is a bad actress, either emma dies or is in a coma until killer is revealed

how could someone young and small like abi or cindy move lucy's body if she wasn't killed on the common

i agree if pam or les is the killer it is a fail

why is ronnie so hell bent on getting rid of nick, he is rotten though he might kill mrs. doyle now to shut her up

sharon told phil get the money back not don't kill nick she has accepted bad phil :p perfect match mona, remember too sharongate, she was the big love of phil's life and still is

[lizann]

lol'd at emma looking at everyone like they are the killer, anna acton is a bad actress, either emma dies or is in a coma until killer is revealed

how could someone young and small like abi or cindy move lucy's body if she wasn't killed on the common

i agree if pam or les is the killer it is a fail

why is ronnie so hell bent on getting rid of nick, he is rotten though he might kill mrs. doyle now to shut her up

sharon told phil get the money back not don't kill nick she has accepted bad phil :p perfect match mona, remember too sharongate, she was the big love of phil's life and still is

[Dazzle]

Nick was back to his nastiest tonight! :ninja:

I'm wondering if Phil will get the blame for cutting the brakes, seeing as witnesses saw him threatening Ronnie. :hmm:


why is ronnie so hell bent on getting rid of nick

I'd been wondering that. She did explain to Phil tonight that Nick scared her, but he hasn't done enough to scare steely Ronnie in my opinion (well, up until the crash). Maybe it can be explained by her feeling protective over the baby?


how could someone young and small like abi or cindy move lucy's body if she wasn't killed on the common

I guess they'd have to have had help.

[xx_Dan_xx]

The problem I have with Abi being the murderer is that Emma looked scared in the park. I mean, ok, she killed someone but isnt exactly scary or going to overpower you in a struggle. Of course if it was Abi, Cindy or Pam, they must of got someone to help cover it up.

[Dazzle]

The problem I have with Abi being the murderer is that Emma looked scared in the park.

I agree with that to a certain extent, but if I knew someone murdered in a fit of rage (for example) I'd be wary of them to say the least even if they were physically small. I think that how far someone is capable of going is often the thing that scares people the most.

Also, we don't actually know Emma met the murderer. She said "but that's still murder", which could also have been said to someone covering for the killer.

[lizann]

would emma parents be called at the hospital as next of kin not max

is mrs. doyle going to frame phil to share the money with nick

[lizann]

would emma parents be called at the hospital as next of kin not max

is mrs. doyle going to frame phil to share the money with nick

[xx_Dan_xx]

Gaaaah I now have a distorted view of Abi... I think shes the murderer so now every time she speaks I'm annoyed and thinking I know your game.

Whoever the killer is, am I the only one shocked that, given we have the list of names, that any of them have managed to pull this murder off and the Police haven't a clue. None of them look like a criminal genius if you ask me.

[lizann]

i wonder could emma have been poisoned or died from murder other than the car accident

carol might do a better job on lucy's murder case now if she takes over from emma :p

[lizann]

i wonder could emma have been poisoned or died from murder other than the car accident

carol might do a better job on lucy's murder case now if she takes over from emma :p