View Full Version : Do you believe in God?
Jessie Wallace
12-10-2005, 23:28
After to disscusion with some guy's on the shout box, i thought it would be a good idea to start a thread disscusing the bible and if you do or don't believe in God?
alkalinetrio
12-10-2005, 23:31
i dont believe. even tho my mum is catholic and i was brought up on it. i just dont believe in it. the thing about not wasteing sperm is that all religions or just catholics?
CrazyLea
12-10-2005, 23:32
i dont believe in god.. many reasons which include: if there is a god who loves us so much, why does he let people get/die of natural diseases such as cancer... that has nothing to do with messing with free will like stopping war or something so why?? also the poverty in the world.. if he really loved everyone why letthem all die of hunger..... again nothing to do with freewill. so why???
I dont believe. i went to a church school and was made to go to church but it was all a load of tosh to me! i just dont get all the hymns and prayers and preaching!
plus what really did it for me was when i was younger and i had a rabbit and he was poorly and i didnt clean him that day so that night i said in these words as i remember it very clearly"!
' dear god, i know i dont ever pray but please dont let smokey die i didnt get to clean him today but i promise i will tomorrow please let him be ok'
and what happend next morning i go to feed smokey and he was dead! if god was real he would have saved my rabbit but no he didnt!
i dont believe
Behemoth
12-10-2005, 23:38
I'm not sure I believe in God. How can there be a God when there is so much suffering in the world?
alkalinetrio
12-10-2005, 23:43
i respect anyone tho who believes in god
Behemoth
12-10-2005, 23:46
Oh yeah definatley. I wouldn't not respect someone who believes.
i respect anyone tho who believes in god
yeah i would never disrespevt them
Jessie Wallace
13-10-2005, 00:03
Everyone is entitled to there own beliefs, i do beliebe in God and am happy to talk to people about it (like on the shoutbox earlier) and aslso was we discovered earlier i don't have all the answers. And i would never push my believes onto others
It interesting to see other peoples view and stuff.
Chloe O'brien
13-10-2005, 00:20
I believe in God I was raised a catholic and went to confession and chapel every week. I only stopped when i lost three friends in two years as I could not understand why God would take someone so young. i wish i still went to chapel but i am a bad catholic and too lazy too drag myself out of bed on a sunday morning. i now believe that everything happens for a reason but i would never force my views on anyone else>
alkalinetrio
13-10-2005, 00:59
i dont expect people to believe what i believe. but ill like them to listen to what i have to say then they tell me what they have to say and so on i dont mean like a "you must believe in god" type way lol but as my question was before do all religions believe in not wasteing sperm? like with the catholics they dont believe in using condoms and pills ect ect right?
I don't believe in god,like others I feel he would stop alot of bad things that are happening in the world. they say that the storms and hurricanes are a act of god. So why would he do that to so many innecent people ?. also why are there so many sick little children in the world ?. Both my parents died young they were good people, helped others etc, yet there are some evil people in the world,and they live to a old age !. What god would do this ?
I was brought up in a catholic familly. Catholic school, church every sunday and all the usual things that go along with it. But i remember from an early age telling my grandparents that i didn't believe (think i got a clip round the ear for that)
When the time came for me to make my confirmation i was determined i was not going to go through with it (i mean whats the point if you dont believe) when i informed the teacher of this. She got my grandparents and the headmistress involved and i was parctically forced into doing it. I am still not happy out that happening but there wasn't really anything i could do. But i still dont believe so they didn't make me change my mind.
alkalinetrio
13-10-2005, 14:33
whats a confirmation?
confirmation is when you renew your baptisim and sort of pledge that you want to be part of this faith for the rest of your life. You used to do this in primary 7, the view to this was that you were now old enough to know what you wanted and could make your own mind up, as it was your parents choice to bring you into the faith when you were a baby and obviously you didn't get a say in the matter. But now they do a week after your first communion (primary 3-4) which i personally think they changed so the kids didn't speak up and REALLY have n choice in the matter.
i don't know if i believe in god or not.not been to church since 1995
alkalinetrio
13-10-2005, 16:12
the jesus thing i dont believe he was some miracle person either. i just think he was someone who took advantage of people willing to believe in anything. conman. you still get it today people making people believe they are someone else.
yup totally agree alkalinetrio - but always wanted to know how he managed that water to wine thing :p
alkalinetrio
13-10-2005, 17:21
magic trick lol
squillyfer
13-10-2005, 18:30
I go to a catholic school but it isnt really rammed down your thoat, saying that we do have mass tomorrow for the harvest festival but i dont really mind cos it gets me out of lessons and a lot of its more about morals than religion but I dont believe although two of my best friends are devout catholics and I helped both of them through their first holy communion and confirmation and we have lots of discussions on the subject
I beleive in God, unlike most people, i think it answers a lot of questions. I haven't really thought about it that much, although i've gone to church for years, untill i went to this youth weekend. Then it all sort of "clicked" because of things which happened there
Some of you guys have been saying stuff about "If theres a god, then why does he allow so much suffering?"etc. Well, read the Bible and theres a very good answer. God isn't going to make life easy. He's going to test people, make poeple relise what they've done wrong wiht their life, and if that means people get hurt, then so be it. It says int he bible that he wants to test us, and thats what he's doing.
Another thing which really annoys me when people say it, is that the Bible dont make sense. Well duh! Its written by hundreds of different people, they aren't all going to agree on all events, all talks, and things which happen
I haven't always beleive in God, but i think that if you lok at the bigger picture, most (and i do mean most, because some of it is a load of ****) of the bible makes a lot of sense.
ok how about this one - if god forgives everyone why is there a heaven AND a hell?
Surly there would be no need for hell??
Hmmm, let me think about that one.....
I'll get back to you :)
Hmmm, let me think about that one.....
I'll get back to you :)
lol ok
I know theres an answer to that.... i just can't remember it!!
i think i know what the answer is going to be but i dont believe it
Right, its sort of come back to me.
The new conenvant says that anyone who trusts in God will be forgiven, and can "live with and in" him. That indicates that he will forgive anyone who trusts in him, hence if you dont, he wont, therefore the purpose of hell!
i think i know what the answer is going to be but i dont believe it
?????
What d'ya mean?
nah - if we are ALL god's children and he loves us ALL then that doesnt make sence.
He wouldn't care if the other people didn't trust him becase he FORGIVES everyone
?????
What d'ya mean?
that you have to ask for forgiveness before it is given (well so my gran said)
But as i said before, the bible contradict itself. You've just got to take from it, what you can and what you ebelive its trying to say. I think that the new convenant is more reliable than the whole "w're all God's children" stuff, but its just down to a matter of opinion really. If you don't beleive in God then fine its up to you, but a lot of stuff makes sense when you think about what the bible says on it etc
oh no im not disputing that i agree if you believe you believe makes no difference to me - trust me my whole familly are strict catholics.
I'm just saying that as well as alot of it making sence there is alot of questions too
alkalinetrio
13-10-2005, 20:57
adam and eve thing doenst make sense at all thats one story i refuse to believe
Jessie Wallace
13-10-2005, 22:09
oh no im not disputing that i agree if you believe you believe makes no difference to me - trust me my whole familly are strict catholics.
Catholics are different to Christains, what Abi say's makes loads of sence and is very true. And Scott what don't you get about Adam and Eve?
alkalinetrio
13-10-2005, 22:48
whos ment to have wrote the adam and eve story?
Jessie Wallace
13-10-2005, 23:04
The views are starting to change believe it or not. Many people are starting to realize that Moses DID NOT plagiarize these accounts of creation, and the flood. In stead there is evidence that Moses took the earlier documents of Adam, Noah, Abraham Enoch Isaac, and Jacob, these documents that were passed on from one generation to the next, and put them together into one book called the BOOK OF GENESIS!
alkalinetrio
13-10-2005, 23:10
i must read more to understand more then question it if it dont seem right
Jessie Wallace
13-10-2005, 23:13
If you read the bible, or for you Scott as your intrested in Adam and Eve, read Genisis, it will answer lots of your questions hun.
xlxstaceyxlx
13-10-2005, 23:20
im not sure if i do or dont
In RE we're talking about is God real or Imagined. If hes real how come there is so much suffering in the world??? Then listening to the arguements given by the christians in RE you start to think he is real :confused: :searchme:
im a bit confused lol
Carl marx says that God cant be real because he is not physical but when you do listen to both side your sorta confused.well i am anyway!
I have to do an essay on whether hes real or not
HELP lol!!
Jessie Wallace
13-10-2005, 23:26
im not sure if i do or dont
In RE we're talking about is God real or Imagined. If hes real how come there is so much suffering in the world??? Then listening to the arguements given by the christians in RE you start to think he is real :confused: :searchme:
im a bit confused lol
Carl marx says that God cant be real because he is not physical but when you do listen to both side your sorta confused.well i am anyway!
I have to do an essay on whether hes real or not
HELP lol!!
God is real, whe/if you believe and trust in him you will know he is real. Just because you can't see him (you can see air, but you know it's there!) When Jesus was raised from the dead, people didn't believe, even one of his closest friend didn't, Jesus had to prove it to him, even tho he should never have to do that, if your a friend you just believe what they tell you, you should never question it!
Have you tried a search on the internet, that may help you, as i'm not very good at explaining what i mean! Lol, sorry.
alkalinetrio
13-10-2005, 23:37
air and god is a different thing. scientists have proven the air thing but the god thing i dont know
Jessie Wallace
13-10-2005, 23:40
I used it as an analagy (sp?) ingnore the scientist thing, if you didn't know that, wou'd still believe that air was there even thought you couldn't see it. Not sure how else to out it, as i said i'm not very good at explaining what i mean. I'll have to get my Dad on here, as he will explain it better!
alkalinetrio
14-10-2005, 00:17
yeah im same as you i know what im on about in my head but cant explain it lol
I'd like to believe what i think is real, but then i see all this disaster crap and part of me says "why would he let this happen" Personally i think thats what most christians are asking themselves
xlxstaceyxlx
14-10-2005, 12:44
good point jessie
alkalinetrio
14-10-2005, 12:52
all the disasters are natural causes or however its said. everything can be explained by science. i havnt seen god do one thing which makes me not believe there is one. and that created the earth in 7 days thing is nonsence then put adam and eve on there. what happened to the dinosaurs? theres more proof of the dinosaurs then there is of adam and eve thing.
melanielovesdennisrickman
14-10-2005, 13:54
I don't believe in god either.
I agree with what you say alkalinetrio!!
CrazyLea
14-10-2005, 14:41
all the disasters are natural causes or however its said. everything can be explained by science. i havnt seen god do one thing which makes me not believe there is one. and that created the earth in 7 days thing is nonsence then put adam and eve on there. what happened to the dinosaurs? theres more proof of the dinosaurs then there is of adam and eve thing.
yeah i reckon we all evolved from dinosaurs :p lol whats the whole thing with the belly button or rib about with adam and eve by the way?
apparently god took a rib from adam to make eve personally i think he took one look at adam and thought he could do better
CrazyLea
14-10-2005, 14:48
lmao :p good one :p
alkalinetrio
14-10-2005, 14:53
lol took one rib haha. i loved that programme about how everything evolved like where we get the back bone, arms , legs ect ect it was quite interesting like how the earth formed and how it was to hot for life on earth so creatures stayed in the water till trees ect ect grew on earth and it was cool enough for creatures to go on land i think thats how they explain it anyways im not good at taking to much information in lol
if god really Exists they why dosn't he show his face.i think Religion is the cause of all Evil
alkalinetrio
14-10-2005, 17:52
people is the route of evil. we shudnt blame it on a religion. its the humans mind if you want to do evil or good. for example if people think that killing will please god then its there fault no religion if they want to believe what they've been told its there choice. its people who created religion people have there own minds to choose to believe or not. religon does good and does bad. ok this didnt sound like i wanted it to lol i cant explain what i mean in my head.
apparently god took a rib from adam to make eve personally i think he took one look at adam and thought he could do better
You got to do a rough draft before you do the final coopy :D
if god really Exists they why dosn't he show his face.i think Religion is the cause of all Evil
Some people beleive that because people have stepped away from religion that more crime and voilence has occured in todays society (note - I said some people - not necessairly me)
Ok this is by rant about people who diss religons for the day;
Alright, when you first saw a television, did you stop and find out exavctly how it works, before turning it on and watching it? I think not. Then why is it that everyone has to find out exactly whether God exsists, before putting faith into it? Just because you can't see television signals, it doesn't mean they're not there, and you dont doubt that, so why doubt whether God exsists? It doesn't make sense.
Do you have to see a painter actually painting a picture, before accepting that a painter did in fact paint the painting? Do you have to watch a biulder building a house before accepting he did it? The answer: no you dont. You accept that the building your sitting in was built by a builder, without a second thought. You dont want nor need a shread of evidence. So why is it that everyone needs to have proof that God created the world, before accepting it? Basic logic dictates that in order for something to have been created, it needs a creator. In the same way, you wouldn't spend years investagating whether paralell lines would meet, because in order for them to be paralell, they wouldn't meet. It would be pointless to investgate it. So why does everyone investagate he exsistance of god? Why does everyone try to disprove it, because of the lack of evidence, without just accepting it.
Rant over... i think
Just think about it though, it makes a lot of sense
alkalinetrio
18-10-2005, 16:48
i still dont believe in god. i have no reason to believe in god! building houses and television signals are completly different to the existance of god. if everything needs a creater then who created god? god god! no one will ever know how life started or how something came from nothing! but i just dont believe god created the earth!
Jessie Wallace
18-10-2005, 21:41
No-one created God, he has always existed.
Jessie Wallace
18-10-2005, 21:49
im not sure if i do or dont
In RE we're talking about is God real or Imagined. If hes real how come there is so much suffering in the world??? Then listening to the arguements given by the christians in RE you start to think he is real :confused: :searchme:
im a bit confused lol
Carl marx says that God cant be real because he is not physical but when you do listen to both side your sorta confused.well i am anyway!
I have to do an essay on whether hes real or not
HELP lol!!
God cares for us so much that it hurts him when people suffer. The same as it hurts us when we see people suffering. He sent Jesus to make a way for us to get back to him but left us with free will which means we have to choose whether to believe him or not.
CrazyLea
18-10-2005, 22:03
so maybeeee... its kind of like he's stuck somewhere.. and cant do nothing but watch over people.... and thats why he sent jesus... i think im seeing this wrong lol
No-one created God, he has always existed.
But how did he become to exsit?? He didn't just pop up from thin air did he??
Jessie Wallace
19-10-2005, 12:32
No, He was already there, so work that one out!!
but how did he get there?
Jessie Wallace
19-10-2005, 13:02
but how did he get there?
I don't understand it but i believe it, mind blowing isn't it?
Thats what i'm like Dawn. I know it doesn't make sense, but i still beleive it. Not everything in life is explainable, but it is acceptable.
alkalinetrio
19-10-2005, 13:38
im going to look up the big bang theroy on how the universe was created. theres more truth in that then there is in god creating!
But thats just guesses to. And where did all the material come from that created the Big Bang then? Everything has its questions, even science
alkalinetrio
19-10-2005, 14:28
no one will ever know the truth well not for another millions years atleast lol
xlxstaceyxlx
19-10-2005, 16:29
ive got an RE essay to do on whether god is real.listening to the arguements of the first cause and everything in re i think im going to go with god being real
thank you all because you have helped me in a way make more sense and it will help in my essay
No one is ever going to know, lets face it. We have the proof that God exsists in the world around us, and the Bible, but people can't accept it. What will it take?
Glad we can be of help, Stacy! :)
Behemoth
19-10-2005, 18:33
No one is ever going to know, lets face it. We have the proof that God exsists in the world around us, and the Bible, but people can't accept it. What will it take?
Glad we can be of help, Stacy! :) Proof?
The Bible could just be a fictional story for all we know.
Whats the proof that God doesn't exsist then?
Behemoth
19-10-2005, 19:15
Whats the proof that God doesn't exsist then? That's a crazy argument! It's just reverse logic!
Whats the proof that God doesn't exsist then?
Prove he does???
Jessie Wallace
19-10-2005, 22:45
Prove he does???
Neither of us can prove that either way. The only way to prove that God exists is to believe in him and put your trust in him.
alkalinetrio
19-10-2005, 23:34
theres no proof that he does or doesnt exists. its just what you believe! and as for the bible i agree it cud just be a fictional story and i also believe that jesus cud have just been a conman who done magic tricks and people over exagerted the story!
Jessie Wallace
19-10-2005, 23:46
theres no proof that he does or doesnt exists. its just what you believe! and as for the bible i agree it cud just be a fictional story and i also believe that jesus cud have just been a conman who done magic tricks and people over exagerted the story!
There is no one thing that we can point out and say, there is the proof that God exists. But if the world did not exsist God would still be there!
God is beyond our understanding. Whilst nothing said today can prove that God exists it might make you think.
To believe in God you need to believe in Gord's word, the bible. God always was, always is, always will be. Nobody created God. If we believed that God had been created then God would be no better than us.
Whilst we cannot prove that God exists there are "stepping Stones" which when put together can help to show that God exists.
Anyway if you want more, i can give you more.
JustJodi
20-10-2005, 01:02
I shocked my family when I married an atheiest,, one of my cousins said how can you marry a man who tells you he loves you in one breath and he does not believe in God in another,, I believe that if a person is good and follows the GOLDEN RULES of life then how dare some one judge anothers belief ????
alkalinetrio
20-10-2005, 02:14
what are the things put together that shows god excists?
The problem here is that people have a mistaken concept of God. If we conceive of God as physical being, the question of God’s origin is of course, valid. However, such a concept of God is not in the Bible and to common sense. Consider the following descriptions of God from the Bible;
John 4: 24
God is a Spirit:...
Matthew 16:17
...for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my father which is in heaven.
Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that He should...;
No where does it say that God is a physically being, and no one said he was. Thats why i think he does exsist, just as something different to us. Come on, even the strongest beeliver doesn't say Gods a Human Being.
As for proof; well i know you guys are probably thinking science, so i googled it :D (as i'm not good with science). This is what one site said;
"The universe is expanding from what appears to be a beginning point in space/time, which appears to be a one time event. Hydrogen is the basic fuel of the cosmos, powering all stars and other energy sources in space. If the fuel of the universe has been used eternally, that fuel will eventually be depleted, but the evidence is that the cosmological gas gauge, while moving toward “empty,” is yet a long way from being there—a condition incompatible with an eternal universe."
Why can't this point in space and time be God? And if our source of Hydrogen has been used eternally, then it should run out, but evidence has it that it isn't, so SOMEONE (let me guess who) must be replacing it
God? Yeah, i think so
alkalinetrio
20-10-2005, 18:06
know one knows when it will run out! there probly is a reason just people havnt figured it out yet!
Behemoth
20-10-2005, 19:48
The universe is unimaginable in size and the Hydrogen is bound to run out someday.
I don't believe that God is replacing the hydrogen; it just doesn't seem like a 'spirit' thing to do. If he can do that, why doesn't he prevent natural disasters?
As i already said , the bible says that he doesn't prevent them to test us, and our faith in him.
Behemoth
20-10-2005, 19:57
Lets people die to make sure we still believe in him? I can see why we all worship him them :S
I get where your coming from, but the point is that if you trust in him, then he'll save us. Stuff like War and things show that we don't, so he keeps on doing it. It doesn't make that much sense, i know what you mean. Most people don't beleive everything that your religion teaches you. Personally, i think the miricles (like Jesus turning water into wine) is a load of tosh. This stuff, i'm not sure of, but it doesn't mean that he doesn't exist, or that i dont have faith in him./
i am iritated by the fact that i was christended at birth, i dont not believe a religion should be inforced on a child before they are old enough to learn of the beliefs of religions, and be able to decide who they should be
but in answer to do i believe i say no, becuase if this god existed then how come there are so many conflicting stories of his existance (i.e different religions, if he existed then there'd only be one almighty force in the universe)
would god have seen the twins towers collapse? would god let holly and jessica be killed by ian huntley? would god have allowed the birth of bin laden and sudamn hussain...he is a menance in the league of those two men, and i do not believe in him
CrazyLea
20-10-2005, 21:39
god cant mess with free will :p (i dont believe in him myself) but if i did id beleive the freewill point
just got that rubbish itv comedy on as background noise and they were having a belief debate:
"if a babys pulled out from the rubble allive its a miracle, but it's not gods fault that theres an earthquake"
so true and proves how hypercritical and contradictory religion can be
alkalinetrio
20-10-2005, 21:50
i dont believe in miracles by god! if hes such a miracle worker why dont he do more of them?
Jessie Wallace
20-10-2005, 21:58
God is not rubbish Bryan, and say so is like me come to you and saying how i think your father/family is rubbish (which i don't) So come on, don't make it personal hun.
p.s Sorry if this sounds harsh it's not meant that way, it just hurts when someone say's that your father (God) is rubbish.
Jessie Wallace
20-10-2005, 22:07
i am disgusted to be a christian, i am iritated by the fact that i was christended at birth, i dont not believe a religion should be inforced on a child before they are old enough to learn of the beliefs of religions, and be able to decide who they should be
but in answer to do i believe i say no, becuase if this god existed then how come there are so many conflicting stories of his existance (i.e different religions, if he existed then there'd only be one almighty force in the universe)
would god have seen the twins towers collapse? would god let holly and jessica be killed by ian huntley? would god have allowed the birth of bin laden and sudamn hussain...he is a menance in the league of those two men, and i do not believe in him
Your not a Christian because you are christened, you become a Christian when you trust in Jesus Christ, as Lord and Saviour.
sorry if i offended anyone with my comments, i am passionate against religion and sometimes get a bit carried away... :)
Jessie Wallace
20-10-2005, 22:32
That's ok Bryan, i konw everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but it did offend a little. But it's all in the past now. Hope we still ok.
Regarding science and the bible, i've read (not sure if its true or not) that around the time Noahs Arch was supposed to have occured its been said the the earth flooded badly at this point in time?
Also the walking on water story could be fesiable because of the salt content of the red sea it could be possible to walk on water.
And the star of Bethleham has been explained as a possible comet from Jupiter, which could have only been seen from that part of the world.
To the people who do believe - Are there any points in the religon that you do not agree with??
SoapRach
21-10-2005, 10:20
I personally don't believe in God. I am not a christian, nor a member of any formal religion.
I do believe in religion though. I think that having faith is a very honorable trait. I believe that religion can get people through a lot of bad stuff. I think that religion can teach people some very valuable morals; some of the moral stories in the bible are great for teaching kids; just look at the Good simaritan. Whether or not this is based on true events is not really the point to me.
Regarding science and the bible, i've read (not sure if its true or not) that around the time Noahs Arch was supposed to have occured its been said the the earth flooded badly at this point in time?
Also the walking on water story could be fesiable because of the salt content of the red sea it could be possible to walk on water.
And the star of Bethleham has been explained as a possible comet from Jupiter, which could have only been seen from that part of the world.
I've never heard of them, but it proves that it might not be all lies and fictional stories. :thumbsup:
To the people who do believe - Are there any points in the religon that you do not agree with??
Of course. I think some of the miricles are a load of tosh. I odnt think that God would waste his powers on turning water into Wine, but saying that, i don't know all the answers. Come one, i'm 15, i've only beleived in God for a couple of years, so i don't know all the answers. Faith is about putting trust into something, even if you don't have all the answers, but trusting it all the same.
i am iritated by the fact that i was christended at birth, i dont not believe a religion should be inforced on a child before they are old enough to learn of the beliefs of religions, and be able to decide who they should be
Being christened just means that you are blessed by God, and that your parents promise to bring you up in a good christian way. That doesn't mean your a christian, it doesn't have to mean anything to you. You should be proud that you've been christianed, but not just for the religous side of things. It shows that your parents wanted to make sure that you learnt how to love people, how to trust, how to listen, it shows that they wanted you to not get mixed up in Drugs, violence, Alcohol, and sinning. It doesn't have to be religous, but it shows your parents love you, and that they wanted you to grow into something tha would be worthy of Gods love, if you chose to accept it. It doesn't mean that they wanted to force it onto you, but show that they love you.
I know what you mean about not having a religon forced onto you, but it doesn't have to be like that. It doesn't mean that you have to follow that religion, if your welcomed into it. If you don't beleive in it, then it shouldnt bother you that much, because it would just be words to you. If your agnostic, then its a different matter, but from what i understand, your not.
Im an agnostic.
Remembered something from R.E. lol
alkalinetrio
21-10-2005, 23:22
agnostic front
alkalinetrio
21-10-2005, 23:31
i was christened! done nothing for me! doesnt make me feel loved! its just water!
Jessie Wallace
21-10-2005, 23:52
i was christened! done nothing for me! doesnt make me feel loved! its just water!
Being Christened won't make you feel loved, your Parents having you Chrie=stened showed their love towards you.
That's sad that you don't feel loved at all, not even by your family. :crying: , i love's ya Scott
alkalinetrio
22-10-2005, 14:23
lol thank you dawn
i am having the christening debate with my other half, he wants the kids done and i do not. we are both christened but i want the kids to make up there own minds.
i think it would be contradictive of us too as i can't remember the last time i went to church when it was not a wedding or a funeral!!!!
This is a random question, to anyone that doesn't beleive. What do you think happens afetr you die? What do you think had happened to any loved ones you know whose died?
Behemoth
22-10-2005, 20:48
This is a random question, to anyone that doesn't beleive. What do you think happens afetr you die? What do you think had happened to any loved ones you know whose died? What can you remember before you were born? Nothing. That's what I think death is like.
So you think that everyone that you've known who have died are just in nothingness? Dont you find that a little bit depressing and sad
I dont wanna offend you, i'm just trying to understand your point of view :)
Behemoth
22-10-2005, 20:52
So you think that everyone that you've known who have died are just in nothingness? Dont you find that a little bit depressing and sad
I dont wanna offend you, i'm just trying to understand your point of view :) Yeah, I just think once you die, thats it.
You're not offending me! I like talking about this sort of thing!
hmmmmm, i get what you mean about not remembering anything before birth, that makes a lot of sense, i just can't help that there must be something else. I would hate, absolutly hate, to think that my family aren't looking down on me. I've had to cope with a lot of my close family and friends dying, i just can't accept that they're gone forever, and that i'm never ever ever going to see any of them again. Maybe i'm just stubborn!
alkalinetrio
23-10-2005, 00:13
i agree with rob! i dont find it depressing tho!
This is a random question, to anyone that doesn't beleive. What do you think happens afetr you die? What do you think had happened to any loved ones you know whose died?
i don't want to hink about it!!! i have a fear if death!!!!
and i am going to my friends sons funeral on tuesday he died 2 years ago in december and it should be his 18th birthday on the 25th november
and i should be buying him his first drink in a pub not going there for his wake!!
so i hope he is looking down on us having a laugh
i love you ken x x x x and we always think of you x x x x x
Chloe O'brien
23-10-2005, 00:33
This is a random question, to anyone that doesn't beleive. What do you think happens afetr you die? What do you think had happened to any loved ones you know whose died?
I do believe in god although there is some things that i don't agree with. Anyway getting back to what you think happens after you die. My mum had an accident 22 years ago she was in a coma and she was given the last rites as we are catholics. She survived and she told us that when she was in the coma she saw a light and she heard a voice talking to her telling her that it was not her time to die just yet. She did die 10 years ago this christmas and I would hate to believe that I will not see her again or anyone else in my family
I do believe in god although there is some things that i don't agree with. Anyway getting back to what you think happens after you die. My mum had an accident 22 years ago she was in a coma and she was given the last rites as we are catholics. She survived and she told us that when she was in the coma she saw a light and she heard a voice talking to her telling her that it was not her time to die just yet. She did die 10 years ago this christmas and I would hate to believe that I will not see her again or anyone else in my family
*shiver*
alkalinetrio
23-10-2005, 01:09
i just cant believe we go anywhere when we die! my mum wud kill me if she heard me say that shes catholic and really strong about it!
If thats what you think, then don't let your Mum get to you. Everyones different, if you don't beleive in its no biggy. Its your life, innit
.:SpIcYsPy:.
24-10-2005, 12:27
I just belive there is god but I don't belive in the stories about how he created the world or anything. I just belive he/she is there...
I belive that after we die, we re-live (can't think of the right word!!) as another person, good or bad..
alkalinetrio
24-10-2005, 22:08
i deffinatly dont believe in reincarnation!
Jessie Wallace
24-10-2005, 22:10
Me neither.
theres been a 2 part drama of religion existing or not on channel 4, we watched it in critical thinking and i am now comepletly atheist!
they sad that god encourages brutal murder of people from other religions... which is also racist...the bible has loads of contradictories...and ive just been on the net and found a site with loads of religious parts of the different religions that encoruage or condone murder/rape...
http://spl.haxial.net/religion/violence/
if god (in whatever form) existed then why would he encorugae/condone such awful crimes?
~charlie-lou~
19-01-2006, 00:34
I don't believe in God, but I don't feel any superior to those who do. It's just what I believe to be the facts.
I am Christian, but I am not a devote Catholic. I do like to believe that there is a God, yet I always wonder about suffering? So people suffer so horribly i this world, why would a god do that? I also find it hard to believe in things like the walking on water. I do believe in God, but I don't believe he's as powerful as people say
xxx
I am not sure,I have always been nice to others help anyone I can for no gain. Yet I have had to watch my sister suffer for years with bad ezcema,that covered all her body, and she commited suicide. in the last few years I have lost so many members of my family, young and all tragicly.Even my hubby in November. All of them lovely people.
I am told I am being tested, Well I think it is about time the test finished. here is a god, Why would he put one person through so much.
Jessie Wallace
19-01-2006, 19:17
I am Christian, but I am not a devote Catholic. I do like to believe that there is a God, yet I always wonder about suffering? So people suffer so horribly i this world, why would a god do that? I also find it hard to believe in things like the walking on water. I do believe in God, but I don't believe he's as powerful as people say
xxx
God doesn't let suffering in the world, that's what people do can't control their minds and thier action, just the same as he can't copntrol yours and mine. He is upset and hurt to see these things happening just as much as we are. But as for Natural dissarstars, i dunno, i'll ask my Dad if i remember to!
I beileve things happen for a reason. I do believe there is a God, but none of my family believes in God so i dont express my beliefs when they are around. I havent been christened though, so i dont no if im supposed to believe in him or not.
Jessie Wallace
19-01-2006, 19:21
I beileve things happen for a reason. I do believe there is a God, but none of my family believes in God so i dont express my beliefs when they are around. I havent been christened though, so i dont no if im supposed to believe in him or not.
You can believe in him if you want to, i know loads of people who have family's who don't believe, but they just pray that oneday their families will believe. It doesn't matter if you've been christened or not, i never have been and i'm still a christain, it all to do with what you believe and put your faith and trust in.
You can believe in him if you want to, i know loads of people who have family's who don't believe, but they just pray that oneday their families will believe. It doesn't matter if you've been christened or not, i never have been and i'm still a christain, it all to do with what you believe and put your faith and trust in.
Thanks for clearing that one up!
After just reading this thread there's a few questions I'd like to ask:
1. The chicken or the egg conundrum. It seems the athiest point of view is what created God, and the believers point of view is God self created. But everyone is assuming that there is a beginning and an end. I would contest that by saying God is outside the realm of time and space. The most interesting view I read was that if Prof Hawking when he said that "time and space had always existed so what place for a God?". Obviously, the response to that was if time and space can always have existed, why can't God?
2. Suffering. Lets get realistic here. We don't live in a perfect world. There is good and there is evil. If God was to save everyone would you believe in him then? I doubt not, because its mankinds freewill to question everything. I find it ironic that people on the one hand will condemn all the suffering but will won't give up the materialistic lifestyle to make a change.
3. Science. We live in an age where technology rules. We have this belief that science can explain everything, but yet it can't provide evidence of the missing link. I do believe in evolution, but not as Darwin believed it. There are just as many arguments against Darwinism as there are for.
theres been a 2 part drama of religion existing or not on channel 4, we watched it in critical thinking and i am now comepletly atheist!
they sad that god encourages brutal murder of people from other religions... which is also racist...the bible has loads of contradictories...and ive just been on the net and found a site with loads of religious parts of the different religions that encoruage or condone murder/rape...
http://spl.haxial.net/religion/violence/
if god (in whatever form) existed then why would he encorugae/condone such awful crimes?
I would hazzard a guess that most of the quotes on that site are quoted out of context. When an athiest kills, what is it then? Look at Mao and the cultural revolution. All athiest doctrine. Fact of the matter is people kill and the scapegoat is God.
And secondly, don't forget that through the ages, mankind has twisted Gods word to benefit his selfish needs. the problem isn't God; its mankind
1. The chicken or the egg conundrum. It seems the athiest point of view is what created God, and the believers point of view is God self created. But everyone is assuming that there is a beginning and an end. I would contest that by saying God is outside the realm of time and space. The most interesting view I read was that if Prof Hawking when he said that "time and space had always existed so what place for a God?". Obviously, the response to that was if time and space can always have existed, why can't God?
Exactly. As they say in a certain programme that i'm slightly obsessed about: "Time isn't a straight line. It can bend in whatever way it chooses"- meaning no beginning, and no end
2. Suffering. Lets get realistic here. We don't live in a perfect world. There is good and there is evil. If God was to save everyone would you believe in him then? I doubt not, because its mankinds freewill to question everything. I find it ironic that people on the one hand will condemn all the suffering but will won't give up the materialistic lifestyle to make a change.
Definetly not. The world aint perfect, and why should it be? People need to learn from their mistakes. At the end of the day, we have our own minds, so why should anyone mummy us thorugh our lives, making sure that nothing bad will ever happen? God shouldn't HAVE to stop suffering. WE can stop it, people just dont want to.
3. Science. We live in an age where technology rules. We have this belief that science can explain everything, but yet it can't provide evidence of the missing link. I do believe in evolution, but not as Darwin believed it. There are just as many arguments against Darwinism as there are for.
I was doing this recently in RE- and we actually made a group of atheists begin to beleive that God might actuially exsist, just with this point. A huge group of people beleive in things like the Big BAng, because Science proves it happened, and therefore God could never exsist, if the Big Bang happened. What a load of rubbish. Something must have created the matter that created the Big Bang. Something can't be made of nothing. Science might dictate that a Big Bang happened, but has it found out what created this? Answer: Nope. And has it over ridden the exsistance of God? NO!! So people, stop using science to disprove the exsistance of God- cause it dont work!!
Reminds me of a discussion we were having at work. Something to do with Quantum mechanics (I only understood parts of it, but my friend was really into it).
Apparently theres some relationship between these particles, that if you change the state of one, the other one will always be the opposite, no matter how far apart. Science can't explain how it happens, but my friend was willing to accept the fact that it could. So I asked, how does that fit in with your athiest views?
i don't really know because if there was a god then he would of changed the world by now with everything that's going on it's just disgraceful
i don't really know because if there was a god then he would of changed the world by now with everything that's going on it's just disgraceful
Err, weren't there tons of prophets and messengers that came to change the world? What did we do with them?
And what have you done to change the world? (not being personal)
1. Big Bang theory. Explostions cause chaos, so how could the Big Bang have caused life? Look at teh human eye. It is sooo complex, can that really be done by an explosion? I doubt it, meaning there must be a designer- God.
2. Apperences. We all look different. Why? Unless someone wanted us to be individual, then whats the purpose of this? Unless theres a god, then why would we not be exactly the same?
3.Something can't come from nothing. Something can't just appear. Something eternal must have created the world around us. Why can't this be God?
4. Cause and Effect. Life is a chain of cause of effect, one after the other. Life is the effect, so what, or rather who, caused it. And dont say the Big Bang, i've already covered that one.
5. Big Bang (point 2). If this did occur, and wasn't made by God, then that doesn't count for hte 90 or so other atoms that have been discovered, seeing as it only created 3 gases. These cuoold easily have been made by God, because something can't come from nothing
im kinda undecided as there are just so many sides to each stroy i find it hard to make up my mine if you know what i mean. for example i would like to belive we go to heaven but then im unsure if i belive in that
im kinda undecided as there are just so many sides to each stroy i find it hard to make up my mine if you know what i mean. for example i would like to belive we go to heaven but then im unsure if i belive in that
So you're agnostic?
Chris_2k11
19-01-2006, 21:50
I don't believe in God.
So you're agnostic?yes , yes im think i am
I don't believe in God.
Whats the point then? Why and how are we here?
Chris_2k11
19-01-2006, 21:56
Whats the point then? Why and how are we here?What makes you think it's got anything to do with 'God' ??
Behemoth
19-01-2006, 22:11
1. Big Bang theory. Explostions cause chaos, so how could the Big Bang have caused life? Look at teh human eye. It is sooo complex, can that really be done by an explosion? I doubt it, meaning there must be a designer- God.
That's insane. Any physics teacher could explain the Big Bang to you. It's not like it happened in seconds; it took billions of years for the matter created by the Big Bang to form the universe we know today.
2. Apperences. We all look different. Why? Unless someone wanted us to be individual, then whats the purpose of this? Unless theres a god, then why would we not be exactly the same?
Genetic variation, genetic mutation. Google them.
3.Something can't come from nothing. Something can't just appear. Something eternal must have created the world around us. Why can't this be God?
Why can't it be the Big Bang? It's not a question of "Why can't...", it's a question of "How can..."
5. Big Bang (point 2). If this did occur, and wasn't made by God, then that doesn't count for hte 90 or so other atoms that have been discovered, seeing as it only created 3 gases. These cuoold easily have been made by God, because something can't come from nothing
Molecules join together to create other substances e.g. Two hydrogen atoms and an Oxygen atom makes a Water molecule. Simple.
pookie1968uk
19-01-2006, 22:14
i don't really know because if there was a god then he would of changed the world by now with everything that's going on it's just disgraceful
why should he, he gave us a world to live in, with our own wills instead of treating us like robots and what do we do with it, abuse it and live as far away from God as we can, if you dont want to know him then why expect him to do anything for you when things go wrong.
That's insane. Any physics teacher could explain the Big Bang to you. It's not like it happened in seconds; it took billions of years for the matter created by the Big Bang to form the universe we know today.
Yup, the concept of the big bang is easy. Its what came before - i.e. was there intelligent design
Genetic variation, genetic mutation. Google them.
Which is one of the beauties of nature. Intelligent design maybe?
Why can't it be the Big Bang? It's not a question of "Why can't...", it's a question of "How can..."
Molecules join together to create other substances e.g. Two hydrogen atoms and an Oxygen atom makes a Water molecule. Simple.
But that doesn't answer how something as complex as life itself can evolve. How do you explain consciousness? Fine, you can all these wonderful molecules coming together but which molecules decide that there is something out there and they need an eye to see with? And of course, if you follow Darwinism, there's still the slight problem of the missing link.
Behemoth
19-01-2006, 23:28
How do you explain consciousness?
That is one thing I have always wondered about - consciousness. I just can't get my head round it. Being conscious of our actions and being able to think just fries my brain.
I just don't believe that there is any "intelligent design" though. I just believe in science and that there is a scientific explanation for everything, even if we don't understand it yet.
This discussion sort of reminds me of the Man of Science Man of Faith thing from Lost.
Another thought I had.
If we agree that we evolved then surely there's a case for saying we self created? And if that holds true, how can we then say the opposite for God?
twinkle_eyes83
20-01-2006, 09:46
i go to church but only when i have to wedding or christening but i dont think i believe in God
That's insane. Any physics teacher could explain the Big Bang to you. It's not like it happened in seconds; it took billions of years for the matter created by the Big Bang to form the universe we know today.
And i suppose that any physics teacher would explain presisly where the matter that created the Big Bang came from. Ah yes, thats right, they can't.
Genetic variation, genetic mutation. Google them.
Generic Mutation is part of the 'survival of the fittest' idea, meaning that species will mutate to adapt to hte enviroment. If that is your answer against God, then how exactly does having Brown hair adapt me to the enviroment more than a blonde would?
Molecules join together to create other substances e.g. Two hydrogen atoms and an Oxygen atom makes a Water molecule. Simple
Re-read by post, and you'll see that i said nothing about compounds, such as water. I said that only 4 elements were created. Elements are exactly that. They cannot be made by joining two other ones together, cause thats a compound. Elements are pure, and seeing as the Big Bang only created 4 elements, where do you explain that the other 90 elements, which chemicanlly cannot mutate, came from?
i don't know if i believe in god or not cause there are things in the world that are hard to understand
lollymay
20-01-2006, 16:19
if there is a god why are people like ian huntley still alive
if there is a god why are people like ian huntley still alive
good Question
Chris_2k11
20-01-2006, 16:22
if there is a god why are people like ian huntley still aliveThere is no god that's why.
Angeltigger
20-01-2006, 16:25
if there is a god why are people like ian huntley still aliveAs he is in jail and that is where he will be until he dies.
CrazyLea
20-01-2006, 16:28
if there is a god then he isnt exactly guna go around killing people is he. no matter what they do. he loves everyone. (what i've heard)
Angeltigger
20-01-2006, 16:30
Yeah- god don't go round killing people ok so there has been Earthquakes and that sea thing but it could not be god fault- Ian huntley is behind bars and he will be for the rest of his life
Jessie Wallace
20-01-2006, 16:46
if there is a god why are people like ian huntley still alive
God created people not their minds, we creat who we are, he can't change what you are thinking or what you do, and neither vcan he for Ian Huntley, or anyone else. Plus killing him would be the easy way out for him, and where would the justice be in that, he needs to live through his punishment.
lollymay
20-01-2006, 16:49
Ian huntley is behind bars and he will be for the rest of his life
i dont think its good enough he should be dead for what he did to those poor girls
Jessie Wallace
20-01-2006, 16:50
But it's not our right to kill him, and that would be making us no better than him.
Emma-Lou
20-01-2006, 18:37
I am unsure whether God exists or not i go to a Catholic school and was brought up that way but i do not know.I used to go to church but now i can not be bothered.In R.E at school we have been discussing this and there are arguements to say he exists and arguements to say he does not.I still do not know.
Behemoth
20-01-2006, 18:53
And i suppose that any physics teacher would explain presisly where the matter that created the Big Bang came from. Ah yes, thats right, they can't.
But why would God bother creating matter? And why would he bother waiting billions of years before putting humans on a planet we will only be able to inhabit for about the next million years? And why then would he bother trying to wipe us all out with natural disasters like Tsunamis etc...?
Generic Mutation is part of the 'survival of the fittest' idea, meaning that species will mutate to adapt to hte enviroment. If that is your answer against God, then how exactly does having Brown hair adapt me to the enviroment more than a blonde would?
Genetic Mutation is when the fundamental structure of DNA is altered accidentally, creating something new. Usually the consequences are fatal for the human involved but once in a while they have a benefit. That's how different hair colour etc arose. Survival of the fittest relates to evolution.
Re-read by post, and you'll see that i said nothing about compounds, such as water. I said that only 4 elements were created. Elements are exactly that. They cannot be made by joining two other ones together, cause thats a compound. Elements are pure, and seeing as the Big Bang only created 4 elements, where do you explain that the other 90 elements, which chemicanlly cannot mutate, came from?
I don't know that much about the fundamental structure of substances and all that but I beleive that there is a scientific explanation, even if we don't know of it yet.
But why would God bother creating matter? And why would he bother waiting billions of years before putting humans on a planet we will only be able to inhabit for about the next million years? And why then would he bother trying to wipe us all out with natural disasters like Tsunamis etc...?
Well this part is down to personal thoughts. A lot of people beleive God is "eternal". I'm not sure about that, but if he is, then do you think he'd really do everything all at once?! Dont know bout you, but i dont!
The problem here, is that whatever we say, it takes faith to beleive in God. There is a lot of proof for its exsistance, but if you dont trust in it, then you'll just argue about whether he is there or not forever! We dont know everything, as you said. Personally, i dont think we know everything about God.
Well this part is down to personal thoughts. A lot of people beleive God is "eternal". I'm not sure about that, but if he is, then do you think he'd really do everything all at once?! Dont know bout you, but i dont!
The problem here, is that whatever we say, it takes faith to beleive in God. There is a lot of proof for its exsistance, but if you dont trust in it, then you'll just argue about whether he is there or not forever! We dont know everything, as you said. Personally, i dont think we know everything about God.
you know what i agree i mean i am undecided but i would say i wont make a decission on what i believe until i have proof but i dont think that will ever happen
At the end of the day, what do you need proof for? you put faith in other things, why not God? I'm not trying to get at you, i'm just trying to see this from your point of view...
At the end of the day, what do you need proof for? you put faith in other things, why not God? I'm not trying to get at you, i'm just trying to see this from your point of view...well its just i dont think can becue of the scienentfic knowledge we have plus if there was a god why let millions starve and die for no reason
Behemoth
20-01-2006, 21:49
well its just i dont think can becue of the scienentfic knowledge we have plus if there was a god why let millions starve and die for no reason I just can't understand why people base their entire belief on a book that was written thousands of years ago when there is scientists saying something else happened.
I just can't understand why people base their entire belief on a book that was written thousands of years ago when there is scientists saying something else happened.yer same here is one re lesson a couple of years ago my teacher mentioned about when stories are passd on they can be changed so the bible could be worng i mean how do we know when it exactly wrriten?
Behemoth
20-01-2006, 21:57
yer same here is one re lesson a couple of years ago my teacher mentioned about when stories are passd on they can be changed so the bible could be worng i mean how do we know when it exactly wrriten? For all we know, the Bible could be a collection of fictional stories. What evidence is there to prove they aren't?
For all we know, the Bible could be a collection of fictional stories. What evidence is there to prove they aren't?you took the words right out of my mouth
For all we know, the Bible could be a collection of fictional stories. What evidence is there to prove they aren't?
That is what i used to think,and i still have my doubts, but i havent actually read the bible though, that may sound a bit bad.
But a few personal experiences made me change my mind about God. I dont really want to go into details though.
I dont believe God created the world in 7 days or however long it was i believe it was evoloution personally.
I just can't understand why people base their entire belief on a book that was written thousands of years ago when there is scientists saying something else happened.
Oh no, i dont do that. I dont base my ideas on the bible, because i'm equally unsure about it, as you are. But this isn't about if i'm a Christian or not, its about if i beleive in God. A lot of people dont base this on the bible, but their actual releigion, if that makes sense.
di marco
21-01-2006, 09:31
Some of you guys have been saying stuff about "If theres a god, then why does he allow so much suffering?"etc. Well, read the Bible and theres a very good answer. God isn't going to make life easy. He's going to test people, make poeple relise what they've done wrong wiht their life, and if that means people get hurt, then so be it. It says int he bible that he wants to test us, and thats what he's doing.
if hes trying to test people for doing wrong, why is he not making all the evil people in the world suffer? they are the ones that have done wrong but instead he harms innocent babies and children. someone who my mum works with (who is a strong christian) was saying how her friend (who is also a strong christian) had a baby who was really ill and suffered in loads of pain for over a year before she died but that it was ok cos it was god testing their faith, why would he be so cruel as to let a baby who hasnt done anything wrong in its life be in so much pain?
di marco
21-01-2006, 09:34
and that created the earth in 7 days thing is nonsence then put adam and eve on there. what happened to the dinosaurs? theres more proof of the dinosaurs then there is of adam and eve thing.
exactly what i think scott, the christian theory is that humans were on the earth after the 7th day, however the earth has been around for millions of years before humans came to be. the bible was written before all this was proven so i think it was just written as an answer to how the earth was made, but now its been disproven as we know more about our world
di marco
21-01-2006, 09:36
And if our source of Hydrogen has been used eternally, then it should run out, but evidence has it that it isn't, so SOMEONE (let me guess who) must be replacing it
God? Yeah, i think so
yeh the source of hydrogen will run out eventually but at the moment it hasnt all been used up so no one has needed to replace it, when the hydrogen runs it, it will run out and nothing will replace it
di marco
21-01-2006, 09:39
Being christened just means that you are blessed by God, and that your parents promise to bring you up in a good christian way.
so what if you get christened and your parents arent christians, what does that mean then? it obviously cant mean that they are going to bring you up in a christian way
di marco
21-01-2006, 09:41
This is a random question, to anyone that doesn't beleive. What do you think happens afetr you die? What do you think had happened to any loved ones you know whose died?
i think that when you die you just stay in the ground where youve been buried or whether your ashes have been scattered, maybe your spirit might be there for people who loved you, but i definitely dont think there is a heaven where everyone goes to
di marco
21-01-2006, 09:42
For all we know, the Bible could be a collection of fictional stories. What evidence is there to prove they aren't?
thats what i think rob, the bible may just be like a story book which are written nowadays
di marco
21-01-2006, 10:55
theres been a 2 part drama of religion existing or not on channel 4, we watched it in critical thinking and i am now comepletly atheist!
they sad that god encourages brutal murder of people from other religions... which is also racist...the bible has loads of contradictories...and ive just been on the net and found a site with loads of religious parts of the different religions that encoruage or condone murder/rape...
http://spl.haxial.net/religion/violence/
if god (in whatever form) existed then why would he encorugae/condone such awful crimes?
just had a look at that site, and although i think that its mainly humans using their religion to kill people of other religions, there are parts in some religions holy books that say people will be rewarded if they kill for the sake of their god
i dont know really but grown up to believe God does exist. I went to a catholic primary secondry and college. I dont personally believe especially due to natrual disasters, famine. I also thinkwhen you die yo die.
so what if you get christened and your parents arent christians, what does that mean then? it obviously cant mean that they are going to bring you up in a christian way
It means your parents are stupid, because they promised something that they can enevr keep, just so they can have a party for their baby.
i gpt christened i dont thik there isanything wron wth it. Its securring your future, in a wy with godparents and all that.
di marco
21-01-2006, 15:29
It means your parents are stupid, because they promised something that they can enevr keep, just so they can have a party for their baby.
i wasnt christened myself but only cos the local church wouldnt allow my parents to get me christened. but your calling everyone elses parents on here stupid who got their kids christened but dont believe, thats a bit insulting if you ask me!
Emma-Lou
21-01-2006, 15:31
i got Christened and i also do not think there is anything wrong with it.
i just think its something parents like to do.
My goodness - I have just found this thread.
I am an atheist.
This doesn't just mean that I do not believe in God, it means that I believe there is no God. Subtle difference.
In general I believe that I am a good person. I do not deliberately harm or hurt anyone or thing. I do not steal, murder or commit adultery, I believe that the choice of goodness and evil exists in everyone. The responsiblilty for those acts rests with the perpertrator. I do not need to ask God for forgiveness in order to forgive myself and move on in life.
I believe that all human life is equal. Men and women , people of all races and all faiths. I don't believe that faith in any one god is superior to faith in any other, or indeed none at all.
Organised religion has caused many monstrous events in human history. People kill for their God - what a waste.
All that said, I respect everyone elses views and beliefs. I would never become an evangelical atheist like Richard Dawkins for example (although I agree with much he has to say).
Live and let live.
CrazyLea
21-01-2006, 17:39
It means your parents are stupid, because they promised something that they can enevr keep, just so they can have a party for their baby.
abi :eek: im highly offended :p nah i aint really :p but i really disagree with you i dont think its stupid to get your baby christened, and i dont think its just so they can have a party, i mean you can have one of them anyway not just for a christening. I think its a nice thing to do. doesnt matter if your gunna be religious or not you can make that choice after, but it doesnt do any harm being christened does it?? so it dont matter.
Regarding Christenings.
If two people are Christians and believe in their faith then the logical thing for them to do is to get their child Christened.
Just because you don't believe yourself doesn't give you the right to disrespect other peoples faith and traditions.
That said, many people who do not attend church get their children christened. I refused to christain my children on the grounds that for me it would be hypocritical, other people do it as a family tradition almost seperate from religion, harking back to a time when Christianity was really dominant in this country.
i got Christened and i also do not think there is anything wrong with it.yer same here but are we going off topic i mean is this a reson for do you beilve in god and why?
Yup, the concept of the big bang is easy. Its what came before - i.e. was there intelligent design
Which is one of the beauties of nature. Intelligent design maybe?
But that doesn't answer how something as complex as life itself can evolve. How do you explain consciousness? Fine, you can all these wonderful molecules coming together but which molecules decide that there is something out there and they need an eye to see with? And of course, if you follow Darwinism, there's still the slight problem of the missing link.
NB - I am really shocked to see you peddling ID as an answer to anything. Fundamentalist 'believe it cos I say so' straight from the US of A.
Evidence of the evolution of eyes is out their for all of you doubters to see. Simple animals with only a patch of light sensitive cells exist and eye structure varies from that to the complex eyes of mammels. With just about every level of complexity in between.
Don't make up yout minds about something so awe inspiring just from the drips and drabs that make it to the press. Research it and learn something amazing.
Even when I studied Physics, Chemistry , Biology, Physiology and Biochemisty at University 20 odd years ago Darwinism was old hat.
Dawinism has been been modified and adapted over time ,as has every other scientific theory. The old idea of small and gradual changes caused by minor beneficial mutations was extended to explain that sometimes the jumps caused by evolution are not small at all. Most are - but not all.
Yes the main element of the theory of evolution is survival of the fittist as a force driving the success or failure of mutations in the gene pool.
Someone earlier asked why having brown hair would be an advantage. In some situations it would be less of a disadvantage than others, e.g. if you are being hunted by an animal if you have blonde hair you would be more visible in a jungle /semi dark situation than someone with dark hair, ergo the blonde bites the dust and the brunette lives to breed another day. Yes this is very simplistic. But it is true.
Intelligent Design is a simple cover for Christian fundamentalism. If you believe fine, but don't let these people convince you that science is on their side, because it isn't.
We do not know all the answers, we probably never will, but that is why science is so exciting. This is not like studying an old book that has been around for centuries - this is a living and breathing subject that changes - very rapidly in some fields. The hypothosis, the hunt for evidence to support or refute, the theory and eventually the laws of science are beautiful and true.
E = MC2.
Energy = mass x speed of light squared.
Mass = Energy/speed of light squared.
Therefore if you have energy you can make mass from nothing else. Mass and energy are interchangable.
The laws of physics rule.
i wasnt christened myself but only cos the local church wouldnt allow my parents to get me christened. but your calling everyone elses parents on here stupid who got their kids christened but dont believe, thats a bit insulting if you ask me!
I dont mean to be insulting, yeah, but this is ting about Christening irritates me so much. Christening as a christian tradition where two christians take their new born into their religous building to promise to thei God and their friends that they will bring thei child up into their religon. What gives people who arent Christians the right to do this? They are promising things which they will NEVER be able to keep, unless they are Christians themselves, because a significant part of it, is that fact that the parents bring them up into their religon. They stand up in someone elses church and lie. They do that, because its tradition. Because people expect them to. Because its the 'norm'. Not because they beelive anything that they promise. THAT is the insulting thing here, if you ask me.
To be honest, i dont care if you guys beleive in God or not. I know what i think and that's all that matters to me. But when people stand in my church and lie, then expect me to be happy- well, they're having a laugh really.
doesnt matter if your gunna be religious or not you can make that choice after, but it doesnt do any harm being christened does it?? so it dont matter.
This is nothing to do with the child. As you said, they'll make up their own mind as to what religon they want to follow when they grow up. Of course it wont harm the Child. But personally, i think it does matter when their parents stand in my church and lie their **** off.
yeh i agree with what your saying and everyone has there own opinion on what God is like, but Whena person gets confirmed then they are choosing to make the baptismal promises themselves. Everyones entitled to there oown opinion.
Exactly. I think that the Christening is about the parents promising to bring up their children into their christian religon. The confirmation is about the child choosing to follow what that religon. At the end of the day, if the parents promise to bring up their children into Christianity, and try as hard as they can, then i dont care if the child doens't actually become a christian. Its only when someone promises to, and then doesn't bother, that it really irritates me. If your not going to try, dont promise.
yes exactly and i dont know how anyone can say they believe or not a tehre aer so many different thoughts and views. For example christians believe God created the world but Scientists believe it wa the big bang. noone knows for sure so it is pure speculation.
di marco
21-01-2006, 19:58
I dont mean to be insulting, yeah, but this is ting about Christening irritates me so much. Christening as a christian tradition where two christians take their new born into their religous building to promise to thei God and their friends that they will bring thei child up into their religon. What gives people who arent Christians the right to do this? They are promising things which they will NEVER be able to keep, unless they are Christians themselves, because a significant part of it, is that fact that the parents bring them up into their religon. They stand up in someone elses church and lie. They do that, because its tradition. Because people expect them to. Because its the 'norm'. Not because they beelive anything that they promise. THAT is the insulting thing here, if you ask me.
To be honest, i dont care if you guys beleive in God or not. I know what i think and that's all that matters to me. But when people stand in my church and lie, then expect me to be happy- well, they're having a laugh really.
you can believe what you like and i have nothing against you for it, what i am against though is when people dont respect other peoples choices. just cos they arent christians, parents should be able to choose whether they have their children christened or not, i dont think it should be up to other people
Of course people should be able to make their own choices. But what about those people who want to become, Muslims for example, but can't because their parents got them Christened, and didn't enocourage them into Christianity?
di marco
21-01-2006, 20:14
Of course people should be able to make their own choices. But what about those people who want to become, Muslims for example, but can't because their parents got them Christened, and didn't enocourage them into Christianity?
even if they were christened they could still become a muslim, you read about it all the time people changing religions
xStephaniex
21-01-2006, 20:27
i do believe in god and i dont , its funny thing really, i used to go to church when i was little and when my popa died (grandad) i stopped going and kinda stopped believeing (sp?) in god. i dont know why. but yes i do belive in god and think he is there somewhere
even if they were christened they could still become a muslim, you read about it all the time people changing religions
People aren't always that accepting. One of my friends was taken to church everyday, tunill he was 12 or 13. Now he wants to convert into a Muslim, and they wont accept him, because he went to church for so long.
di marco
21-01-2006, 20:40
so what do you think about people who get married in a church that dont believe?
xStephaniex
21-01-2006, 21:16
its the same really , you dont have to belive in god to get married do you ? - i mean if there was a god out there he would accept if people belived in him or didn't, i belive there is one out there, but at times it feels he isn't because of all the bad things that happen in life but thats life. you dont have to belive to be able to do other things that people do who do belive in god - does that make sense ?
Behemoth
21-01-2006, 21:39
People aren't always that accepting. One of my friends was taken to church everyday, tunill he was 12 or 13. Now he wants to convert into a Muslim, and they wont accept him, because he went to church for so long. Why does he need someone's approval to be a Muslim?
well its just i dont think can becue of the scienentfic knowledge we have plus if there was a god why let millions starve and die for no reason
Is God to blame? Maybe God has given us the food, but we don't share it. Think about the European food mountains whilst people starve.
For all we know, the Bible could be a collection of fictional stories. What evidence is there to prove they aren't?
What about the Torah, the Koran and all the other religious books that share a common theme: the uniqueness of God, the singularity of creation and relationship between God and his creation
Why does he need someone's approval to be a Muslim?
Its not one person, but the everyone there. They are really reluctant to allow him to become patr of their "community" when he is theoretically a Christian. I dont really like to ask a lot of questions, because i think he finds it a bit upsetting in a way, so i dont know if its a permanent thing, or whether he will be accepted soon. Its complicated i guess.
Its not one person, but the everyone there. They are really reluctant to allow him to become patr of their "community" when he is theoretically a Christian. I dont really like to ask a lot of questions, because i think he finds it a bit upsetting in a way, so i dont know if its a permanent thing, or whether he will be accepted soon. Its complicated i guess.
I know tons of people that have converted to Islam. He's just going to some blinkered mosque.
its the same really , you dont have to belive in god to get married do you ?
I know that a lot of priests and ministers wont marry a couple, if they're not part of their parish. That means that you have to got to church for at least 3 months, i'd guess, before most would marry you in their church. Thats just in a church though, you can get married in other places too, but in most cases, you have to be a Christian to get married in a church, so yes, you have to beleive in God.
I know tons of people that have converted to Islam. He's just going to some blinkered mosque.
lol, well it would be hte kind of thing he'd do!!
I dont think i'm making sense here.... he can and has converted, but its the other people in the mosque that aren't accepting, because he went to church for soooo long. They're not helping him, seeing as none of his family have supported him up to this point. He needed to feel, kind of welcome there, but they're not making him feel like that. Does that make sense?
Jessie Wallace
21-01-2006, 22:10
My vicar won't marry you, if you don't either belong in his parish, or go to a church. And the same to christinings too.
lol, well it would be hte kind of thing he'd do!!
I dont think i'm making sense here.... he can and has converted, but its the other people in the mosque that aren't accepting, because he went to church for soooo long. They're not helping him, seeing as none of his family have supported him up to this point. He needed to feel, kind of welcome there, but they're not making him feel like that. Does that make sense?
Yeah, that makes sense. Tell him to find a different mosque.
di marco
22-01-2006, 07:45
What about the Torah, the Koran and all the other religious books that share a common theme: the uniqueness of God, the singularity of creation and relationship between God and his creation
well they could all be fictional stories too
My vicar won't marry you, if you don't either belong in his parish, or go to a church. And the same to christinings too.
I think its quite common. Some will marry a couple even if they dont go to Church, but i think that doesn't happen a lot. The stupid thing is, a lot of people want a tradtitonal church wedding, but the media, and soaps never tend to show the real side of having to go to that church. Makes people think anyone can.
di marco
22-01-2006, 11:40
I think its quite common. Some will marry a couple even if they dont go to Church, but i think that doesn't happen a lot. The stupid thing is, a lot of people want a tradtitonal church wedding, but the media, and soaps never tend to show the real side of having to go to that church. Makes people think anyone can.
i thought you could get married in church as long as you were christened?
i thought you could get married in church as long as you were christened?
In scotland you don't even have to be christened
What about the Torah, the Koran and all the other religious books that share a common theme: the uniqueness of God, the singularity of creation and relationship between God and his creation
Muslims, Jews and Christians all have the same historical roots.
di marco
22-01-2006, 12:50
In scotland you don't even have to be christened
oh well here you do, my friends sisters husband had to go to some thing (cant remember what it was) before he could get married in the church cos he hadnt been christened
oh well here you do, my friends sisters husband had to go to some thing (cant remember what it was) before he could get married in the church cos he hadnt been christenedwow i never knew that before probably cos most of my family have been christened before lol
oh well here you do, my friends sisters husband had to go to some thing (cant remember what it was) before he could get married in the church cos he hadnt been christened
Never heard that happen before. Although all ministers/priests/vicars are different, and want different things from the couple, before they'll marry them.
di marco
22-01-2006, 19:42
Never heard that happen before. Although all ministers/priests/vicars are different, and want different things from the couple, before they'll marry them.
well you cant get married in any church round where i live without being christened/baptised etc
That wouldn't be good for me if I lived in your area lol
di marco
22-01-2006, 20:08
That wouldn't be good for me if I lived in your area lol
it isnt good for me either lol!
Cornishbabe
22-01-2006, 20:29
Im not sure if I believe in god.
That wouldn't be good for me if I lived in your area lol
But if your not a Christian, and dont beleive in God, then why would you wanna get married in a church, anyway? :p
di marco
23-01-2006, 08:24
But if your not a Christian, and dont beleive in God, then why would you wanna get married in a church, anyway? :p
well for most people its more of a tradition thing than a religion thing
I would hazzard a guess that most of the quotes on that site are quoted out of context. When an athiest kills, what is it then? Look at Mao and the cultural revolution. All athiest doctrine. Fact of the matter is people kill and the scapegoat is God.
And secondly, don't forget that through the ages, mankind has twisted Gods word to benefit his selfish needs. the problem isn't God; its mankind
But then again, if God made mankind in his image, maybe he made a bit of a mistake - and surely that IS his problem?
well for most people its more of a tradition thing than a religion thing
I agree with Abi, if you are not a christian why marry in a church.
I did.
I was brought up in a Christian household, and attended church, bible school youth fellowship. I was christened as an adult, before joining the church at 18.
I was even a sunday school teacher.
However when I got older and learned more and became more questioning I found my faith faltering.
I was probably around 24/25 when I really had doubts and at this time my wedding was being planned (by my mother, who was also paying through the nose for the whole sheebang).
I was too much of a coward to challenge the assumption that I was going to marry in church.
If I was going to do it again now I would get a civil wedding in a hotel or a castle or something - but then again I would also pay for it myself...
Exactly. At the end of the day, i can understand people getting married in churches if they were borught up as one as a child. Some people just can't go to church because of work commitments. But atheists? Why should they get married in a church, if they doubt and questoin the fundamental meaning of the place?
As for what you said Di Marco, well, its tradition to have a roast on a sunday. Does everyone? Its tradition to only do your washing on a Monday. Does everyone? Its tradition for the woman to stay at home and look after the home and kids. Does everyone? Answer: No. So called "tradition" changes all the time, yet atheists and non-christians still get married in churches. It completly contradicts everything they say about christianity.
i read something somewhere recently if we were al created by Adam and Eve why are there so many different races and indivduals, or something along those lines. Its a good point relly. I think tradition in this country has realy gone downhill. Theres moe in Ireland and other countrys with the hole church thing but i think less and less people are doing traditional things e.g church and sunday dinner, sabbath and all that.
alkalinetrio
23-01-2006, 19:49
if the adam and eve thing was true then that means god believe in incest cause who wud the children have sex with?
alkalinetrio
23-01-2006, 19:50
and i would never get married
di marco
23-01-2006, 20:13
As for what you said Di Marco, well, its tradition to have a roast on a sunday. Does everyone? Its tradition to only do your washing on a Monday. Does everyone? Its tradition for the woman to stay at home and look after the home and kids. Does everyone? Answer: No. So called "tradition" changes all the time, yet atheists and non-christians still get married in churches. It completly contradicts everything they say about christianity.
no not everyone does that, but then again not everyone gets married in a church, im not saying its traditional so everyone should do it, im saying lots of people still do see it as tradition so thats why they still want to get married in a church, so in that sense, this tradition hasnt changed for a lot of people
I see where your coming from, but if thats true, then maybe the whole of the British population is backward. People used to get married in churches because they were Christians. Now, fact is, the amount of Christians has gone down. Why dont people see that? Why do, as you pointed out, people still HAVE to get married in a church? I'm not going to get married in a Synagogue, temple or mosque, because i'm not any of those religons, and i still wouldn't if my parents, for example, did. Why does everyone else feel they HAVE to get married in another beleifs church? Its demented. They are the first to critise the church, and Christianity, but still have to get married there because "they still see it as tradition".
di marco
23-01-2006, 20:37
I see where your coming from, but if thats true, then maybe the whole of the British population is backward. People used to get married in churches because they were Christians. Now, fact is, the amount of Christians has gone down. Why dont people see that? Why do, as you pointed out, people still HAVE to get married in a church? I'm not going to get married in a Synagogue, temple or mosque, because i'm not any of those religons, and i still wouldn't if my parents, for example, did. Why does everyone else feel they HAVE to get married in another beleifs church? Its demented. They are the first to critise the church, and Christianity, but still have to get married there because "they still see it as tradition".
i think its also cos of the setting sometimes, i mean i cant see anyone who wasnt a christian getting married in my local church cos its just a square building, but people like the look of old pretty churches in the countryside or wherever, they feel it has the right atmosphere or sets the right mood or something
WEll thats pretty pathetic, aint it? So just because it loks romantic, they exploit it? Other places "set the right scene", but its always the church. People are backwards. Fact.
di marco
23-01-2006, 20:46
WEll thats pretty pathetic, aint it? So just because it loks romantic, they exploit it? Other places "set the right scene", but its always the church. People are backwards. Fact.
well its really important to some people and other people probably wont ever understand, i just think everyone should be able to choose where they want and it shouldnt matter if we disagree with it or not
Important that they exploit a place of worship, because it "sets the right scene"? It might be important theat SOME people get married in a church. I can understand it, if it has sentimental value or something, but generally speaking, they just want the "Big White Wedding", therefore will do anything, including contradict everything they ever said conerning God, to get it.
if the adam and eve thing was true then that means god believe in incest cause who wud the children have sex with?
You've obviously not heard of the virgin birth.
lollymay
24-01-2006, 16:02
but adam and eve had two boys though we learnt about this in maths today lol
alkalinetrio
24-01-2006, 16:38
whats the virgin birth?
i dont think you have to believe in all the church things to believe in God. I think if you have sex before marriage its not going to be the end of the world. There are so many values and beliefs your meant to do i doubt hardly any people do,.
alkalinetrio
24-01-2006, 16:50
that thing that created life the thing that started things to make the whole universe come this far i believe in that but i dont believe in calling it god! i dont believe in worship and dont believe in heaven!
i agree completly there was definalty something that created life and the big bang or whatever, but God and Heaven i dont know. I remember as a Kid i though heaven waswhat was above teh clouds.
whats the virgin birth?
Mary and Jesus?
that thing that created life the thing that started things to make the whole universe come this far i believe in that but i dont believe in calling it god! i dont believe in worship and dont believe in heaven!
I don't believe in your anti-rice ramblings but that doesn't make them false.
alkalinetrio
24-01-2006, 17:45
oh yeh jesus the great magician!
I don't believe, but I defend the right of other to believe without being mocked.
The truth is out there - but none of us know it yet..
oh yeh jesus the great magician!
On what evidence was he a magician?
Daisyduck
24-01-2006, 23:42
My dad died at 71 then my mum at 71 and my sister hung herself at 52,
Where was god then, he left me alone. i cant believe
so i think the bible a best selling novel, to many wars over it
di marco
25-01-2006, 08:30
On what evidence was he a magician?
i dont think he was a magician, but i dont think that he was the son of god either, there is evidence saying that someone called jesus did exist around that time so im not saying he didnt exist at all, just that he was probably just a normal person, nothing special about him
i dont think he was a magician, but i dont think that he was the son of god either, there is evidence saying that someone called jesus did exist around that time so im not saying he didnt exist at all, just that he was probably just a normal person, nothing special about him
Yup, I'd agree with that. Most messengers and prophets were normal people.
The question is really whether or not Jesus performed any miracles ...
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