Totally unrealistic

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22-04-2008, 16:11
Lizzie Brookes

Totally unrealistic

This Steven/Pat story is totally unrealistic. It just doesn't make any sense. I think the Steven/Christian storyline is good - brilliant storyline and acted really well but why would someone who was struggling with their bisexuality attack their grandmother? Last time at least we saw that Stven was acting on misguided information. He did wrong of course but he was unwell and we know Jane's shooting was an accident.

But the reason he locked Ian up was because he thought mistakenly ian was responsible for Cindy's death in prison and because he was angry Ian never went after him to New Zealand. There were clear reasons for his doing what he did though what he did was plain wrong and he was delusional. This time it is a pretty unrealistic jump. One minute he is trying to deny he is bisexual (he lies about Christian comming on to him which was wrong and Christian shouldn't have told Stacey her boyfriend is gay since it is not his place - though that is yet to happen of course). Next minute we are to believe that after Roxy accidentally gives Pat a broken leg, Pat goes through some terrifying experience at the hospital which involves Steven. Why? He got treatment at the clinic and got better.

If the scriptwriters make him ill again, EastEnders is effectively telling the viewers that psychiatric treatment has no effect on anyone. I don't think he is involved in Lucy's disappearance though. He was/is too busy dating Stacey to think up another master plan. He is fond of his half sister and close to her and there wasn't eenough time anyway. Lucy throws a party. the house is trashed by strangers. Steven rings Ian who comes home with Jane. Steven is clearing up the mess. Lucy and Ian argue and exchange slaps. Lucy runs away. There isn't enough time for Steven to hide her and not tell anyone really. It is more likely she gets in touch with him and makes him promise not to say anything, especially as they are close.
22-04-2008, 16:23
aitker

You're obsessed with Steven - he's boring. Everything about the character is unrealistic. I've got nothing against the actor, but the writers should hang their heads at what they have done to this character. First he's mental, then he's normal, then he's straight. then he's gay. He hates Ian, he loves Ian. That scene in the night club where he wanted everybody to think he'd slept with Stacey was almost unwatchable, it was that bad.
22-04-2008, 16:27
Lizzie Brookes

I'm not obsessed with Steven but he is one of my favourite charecters. It is a shame he is leaving but on the other hand May is back soon which is brilliant. I agree about the scriptwriting. It's a bit stupid. I don't mind the bi storyline - that isn't unrealistic. It can happen. I also don't think it is unrealistic that he had a mental breakdown, got treatment and then made amends with Ian and Jane but what is unrealistic is him going downhill again because of bad scriptwriting.
22-04-2008, 16:27
Siobhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie Brookes

If the scriptwriters make him ill again, EastEnders is effectively telling the viewers that psychiatric treatment has no effect on anyone.

No they are not... they are saying if he STAYED in his treatment he wouldn't be such a nutjob.. Steven was never cured, you can see that in the way he behaves.. it is not pride or childishness, he is still ill
22-04-2008, 16:33
Lizzie Brookes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siobhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie Brookes

If the scriptwriters make him ill again, EastEnders is effectively telling the viewers that psychiatric treatment has no effect on anyone.

No they are not... they are saying if he STAYED in his treatment he wouldn't be such a nutjob.. Steven was never cured, you can see that in the way he behaves.. it is not pride or childishness, he is still ill

That's just bad scriptwriting. It definitely helped a bit as all that shaking is gone and he is no longer obsessed with Cindy. How long's he supposed to remain locked up in a clinic? Even the doctor said to keep him there indefinitely is unethical. He'll always be a bit unstable but he is definitely better than he was before. I just think it is over the top in terms of scriptwriting to make him ill again. If they can't think of anything to do with a charecter they should give the charecter a break and other charecters more on screen time until they can think of a realiistic story.
22-04-2008, 16:36
aitker

So where are we supposed to have picked up that he stopped having treatment? When he checked out of the clinic? Surely if he was suffering from a mental illness - to the point where he would shoot somebody (even if it was accidental what he did leading up to it was hardly that actions of a well man) - he would have some follow up treatment (drugs, therapy). It is just laziness (from the writers) to say that because he had a history of mental illness that he will automatically go off the rails and that will be how he is written out. I don't like the character, but he should have been written out in a more original manner. Why is that if you have a mental illness in a soap it means you are completely psychotic - or in danger of flipping at any given time. How about Steven manages his mental illness with medication, and just moves away to college or something?
22-04-2008, 16:42
Lizzie Brookes

Quote:

Originally Posted by aitker

So where are we supposed to have picked up that he stopped having treatment? When he checked out of the clinic? Surely if he was suffering from a mental illness - to the point where he would shoot somebody (even if it was accidental what he did leading up to it was hardly that actions of a well man) - he would have some follow up treatment (drugs, therapy). It is just laziness (from the writers) to say that because he had a history of mental illness that he will automatically go off the rails and that will be how he is written out. I don't like the character, but he should have been written out in a more original manner. Why is that if you have a mental illness in a soap it means you are completely psychotic - or in danger of flipping at any given time. How about Steven manages his mental illness with medication, and just moves away to college or something?

They didn't know about the shooting at the clinic. I suppose the clinic discharged him because they thought he was better which he was until the writers decided to make him unwell again. The reason for the writers doing this is probably because they think it'll be boring to have him just leave but its totallyunrealistic to make him ill again. I like Steven but I still think they should have made him accept his bisexuality and if they had to write him out maybe do it in a better way though ideally they should really have kept him and explored his charcter more. There is so much potential there, Aaron is a alented actor and it is just a waste to turn him psycho again and have him leave. At least Sean being a psycho is more believable.
22-04-2008, 17:19
parkerman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie Brookes

its totallyunrealistic to make him ill again.

It's not totally unrealistic at all. In fact it's very realistic. Unless he is continuing with his medication it is very likely that he will lapse. Do we know if he is taking his medication?
22-04-2008, 17:26
miccisy

Quote:

Originally Posted by parkerman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie Brookes

its totallyunrealistic to make him ill again.

It's not totally unrealistic at all. In fact it's very realistic. Unless he is continuing with his medication it is very likely that he will lapse. Do we know if he is taking his medication?

I agree with you. He has never mentioned taking any medication so he could get ill again at anytime. Especially with the storyline at the moment between Steven/Christian/Stacey. He will be mixed up and therefore has gone loopy again
22-04-2008, 17:28
Siobhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by parkerman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie Brookes

its totallyunrealistic to make him ill again.

It's not totally unrealistic at all. In fact it's very realistic. Unless he is continuing with his medication it is very likely that he will lapse. Do we know if he is taking his medication?

didn't he throw it all away.. when you look at how they show Jean.. she is on constant medication
22-04-2008, 17:30
miccisy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie Brookes

If the scriptwriters make him ill again, EastEnders is effectively telling the viewers that psychiatric treatment has no effect on anyone. .

EE are not putting that across to viewers at all.

He did have treatment but not for very long and has never made any attempt to show him taking any medication to fix his problems. I think EE should have explored this bit moe.
22-04-2008, 19:09
aitker

Look at how they portray mental illness: -

Jean - totally on a different planet
Sean - always agressive
Steven - could do something dangerous at anytime.

Hmm, very sympathetic. Not all people suffering from mental illness are like this. No wonder people are afraid to admit they suffer from depression, or anything less dramatic. As far as EE is concerned mental illness = nutter.
22-04-2008, 19:14
Lizzie Brookes

Quote:

Originally Posted by miccisy

Quote:

Originally Posted by parkerman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie Brookes

its totallyunrealistic to make him ill again.

It's not totally unrealistic at all. In fact it's very realistic. Unless he is continuing with his medication it is very likely that he will lapse. Do we know if he is taking his medication?

I agree with you. He has never mentioned taking any medication so he could get ill again at anytime. Especially with the storyline at the moment between Steven/Christian/Stacey. He will be mixed up and therefore has gone loopy again

So if you kiss someone of the same sex or are confused about your sexuality this means you're insane?
22-04-2008, 19:15
Lizzie Brookes

Quote:

Originally Posted by miccisy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie Brookes

If the scriptwriters make him ill again, EastEnders is effectively telling the viewers that psychiatric treatment has no effect on anyone. .

EE are not putting that across to viewers at all.

He did have treatment but not for very long and has never made any attempt to show him taking any medication to fix his problems. I think EE should have explored this bit moe.

I agree EastEnders should have explored the medication issue more.
22-04-2008, 19:17
parkerman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie Brookes

So if you kiss someone of the same sex or are confused about your sexuality this means you're insane?

No, of course not, but for someone who is already mentally ill and is not taking proper treatment it just might be enough to set him off again.
22-04-2008, 19:18
Lizzie Brookes

Anyway we don't know how much of this is true. These magazines often exaggerate. It was in millions of soap magazines that Sean or Tanya would walk in on Stacey and Max but it never got found out till Christmas Day. The time Steventried to kioll himself it said dramatically on a magazine something along the lines of "Will psycho Steven Kill Stacey?" but he didn't and he never intended to either. It was a cry for help. There was something about Jane finding he had deleted her face from the photos but that never happened.
22-04-2008, 19:19
Lizzie Brookes

Quote:

Originally Posted by parkerman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie Brookes

So if you kiss someone of the same sex or are confused about your sexuality this means you're insane?

No, of course not, but for someone who is already mentally ill and is not taking proper treatment it just might be enough to set him off again.

Mmm maybe...
23-04-2008, 13:33
Abbie

I never thought about Steven never got fully better but now that I think about it, he never did. Not really
23-04-2008, 13:37
Lizzie Brookes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbie

I never thought about Steven never got fully better but now that I think about it, he never did. Not really

I agree that he wasn't fully better but the clinic naturally did not know the full story and he can't be blamed for the clinic discharging him before he was fully well. I know he's leaving now as is Sean but I hope both Steven and Sean will be back one day. The charecters are too interesting to lose.
30-04-2008, 03:05
walsh2509

I can see where it would drive Steven to panic and do something. I mean, he's getting on with Ian, he's part of the family now and he's seen Ian has been torn apart with Lucy going missing , running away. Ian has been ill with worry, what would he do if he suddenly found out that Steven has hidden her away all this time. He would go mental, and steven would be out of the family.

I can see where , 1 struggling with his sexuality and totally paranoid that Ian and the rest of the family will at some point find out about him and Christian, Ian would go nuts. 2 And then fling in to the mix that Steven has been hidden Lucy all this time. In that state I could see him try and shut Pat up.
30-04-2008, 07:55
Lizzie Brookes

Quote:

Originally Posted by walsh2509

I can see where it would drive Steven to panic and do something. I mean, he's getting on with Ian, he's part of the family now and he's seen Ian has been torn apart with Lucy going missing , running away. Ian has been ill with worry, what would he do if he suddenly found out that Steven has hidden her away all this time. He would go mental, and steven would be out of the family.

I can see where , 1 struggling with his sexuality and totally paranoid that Ian and the rest of the family will at some point find out about him and Christian, Ian would go nuts. 2 And then fling in to the mix that Steven has been hidden Lucy all this time. In that state I could see him try and shut Pat up.

I agree with that. Also though it says "evil" Steven on most magazines I don't think he is "evil". "Evil" is when someone intentionally does wicked things in the right frame of mind and we know Steven has a mental illness that comes in episodes. Only the tablets keep it at bay and he threw them away.
30-04-2008, 09:23
Siobhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie Brookes

Quote:

Originally Posted by walsh2509

I can see where it would drive Steven to panic and do something. I mean, he's getting on with Ian, he's part of the family now and he's seen Ian has been torn apart with Lucy going missing , running away. Ian has been ill with worry, what would he do if he suddenly found out that Steven has hidden her away all this time. He would go mental, and steven would be out of the family.

I can see where , 1 struggling with his sexuality and totally paranoid that Ian and the rest of the family will at some point find out about him and Christian, Ian would go nuts. 2 And then fling in to the mix that Steven has been hidden Lucy all this time. In that state I could see him try and shut Pat up.

I agree with that. Also though it says "evil" Steven on most magazines I don't think he is "evil". "Evil" is when someone intentionally does wicked things in the right frame of mind and we know Steven has a mental illness that comes in episodes. Only the tablets keep it at bay and he threw them away.

but you think Stella is evil and she certainly wasn't in the right frame of mind either...
30-04-2008, 11:09
Lizzie Brookes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siobhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie Brookes

Quote:

Originally Posted by walsh2509

I can see where it would drive Steven to panic and do something. I mean, he's getting on with Ian, he's part of the family now and he's seen Ian has been torn apart with Lucy going missing , running away. Ian has been ill with worry, what would he do if he suddenly found out that Steven has hidden her away all this time. He would go mental, and steven would be out of the family.

I can see where , 1 struggling with his sexuality and totally paranoid that Ian and the rest of the family will at some point find out about him and Christian, Ian would go nuts. 2 And then fling in to the mix that Steven has been hidden Lucy all this time. In that state I could see him try and shut Pat up.

I agree with that. Also though it says "evil" Steven on most magazines I don't think he is "evil". "Evil" is when someone intentionally does wicked things in the right frame of mind and we know Steven has a mental illness that comes in episodes. Only the tablets keep it at bay and he threw them away.

but you think Stella is evil and she certainly wasn't in the right frame of mind either...

Maybe not but just as in real life you get on better with some people than others you warm to some charecters more than others on EastEnders. It is hard for me to be sorry for Stella because she did abuse a child but I suppose I have a sliver of sympathy but very slight. In Steven's case I have more empathy with him so I'm more in sympathy with him. Sean - sometimes (like yesterday) I am sorry for him but not when he bullies Gus or anything like that. As for May - wel I'm not too fond of Dawn so I'm more likely to side with May though it was right she wa arrested for what she did.

We will always disagree on Steven Sihoban - that's the way it is but that doesn't matte. Different people have different views. We cant all agree on everything.
30-04-2008, 11:20
Siobhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie Brookes

Maybe not but just as in real life you get on better with some people than others you warm to some charecters more than others on EastEnders. It is hard for me to be sorry for Stella because she did abuse a child but I suppose I have a sliver of sympathy but very slight. In Steven's case I have more empathy with him so I'm more in sympathy with him. Sean - sometimes (like yesterday) I am sorry for him but not when he bullies Gus or anything like that. As for May - wel I'm not too fond of Dawn so I'm more likely to side with May though it was right she wa arrested for what she did.

We will always disagree on Steven Sihoban - that's the way it is but that doesn't matte. Different people have different views. We cant all agree on everything.

yeah we will probably always disagree on Steven (don't mean I hate either you or him, it is nice to debate)...

In regards to Stella/Steven/Sean.. does it matter what age the victim is?? Ok Stella abused a child but she herself was subjected to that and I actually felt sorry for her at one stage when the mitchells and the dress maker was making very very nasty comments to her. Doesn't mean I sympathise with her or not blame her for her actions

I don't feel sorry for Steven.. he was given help and rejected it. He is subjecting his DAD (not a stranger, remember stella has no ties with ben) to most horrific of things, thinking his dead wife was still alive and now that his daughter could be anywhere (you see where he went last night, you also know he had to go view a dead body)

I am not saying Stella/May/Steven/Sean are right in anything they subject their victims too...
30-04-2008, 12:11
Lizzie Brookes

The age shouldn't matter I suppose but I think it does make a difference. I mean a young child of about 11 couldn't defend themselves in the same way as a teenager or a grown man/woman could. With Stella - yes the dressmaker was horrible but wasn't Peggy nice to her until the very end? We all meet people who are not very nice from time to time but we do not abuse children. The age partly affects it because it makes me rate Stella as the worst. As for Steven - Did he reject help? He did some terrible things - stalking and kidnapping Ian but I rewatched that episode and Steven was pointing the gun to his own head. If the other three had not paniced and grabbed it, the gun would not have gone off.

I think the shooting was completely accidental. Also - Steven himself admitted to Ian in the car that he thought he was unwell because he could not eat or sleep and things made sense one minute but not the next. Why say that if he didn't want help? He got sectioned but obviously could not tell the clinic about the stalking/kidnapping/shooting which is why probably they let him go early - not to mention that the audience highly rated both Steven and Aaron at the time, meaning that though scheduled to return in 2 months he came back in 3 weeks which is pretty unrealistic. It is his fault he binned the medication I have to admit.

I think Steven's illness comes in episodes though. It wasn't some master plan to pretend to be better to regain trust. Even if a person can lie to counsellors they can't fight the effects of medication. Also - when he attempted suicide ghe was alone in the garage. He had not expected Stacey to follow him. When he offered to leave Walford after hearing the full extent of what happened to Jane, we saw him pack a bag and leave - if it was some master plan why do that? Also he never thought Stacey would tell ian what he tried to do. I think between November and January he was all right but then his illness came back and because he binned his meds he could not keep it at bay.

He only rejected help in the sense that he threw away the medication and should not have. I know he discharged himself but the clinic said he was ready to leave and as he is n longer shaking it must have had some benefit. I read in Inside Soap that he is not a psychopath - just mentally unstable. He seems to have let Cindy go anyway and doesn't seem to hate Ian. From the sound of it he wants Ian to himself which is the reason he is hiding Lucy but that doesn't make sense to me because he doesn't seem to object to Peter being around. As for Sean, he needs help quickly because Steven had some help and Sean's had none. Yet Sean truly loved Tanya and definitely loves his sister Stacey.

In May's case, well Dawn did angle for Rob didn't she. Fair enough she had no idea he got back with his wife and split with him when she found out but she did mess around - using his money on clothes instead of having an abortion, keeping the baby to win him back instead of finding another boyfriend, agreeing to surrogacy and then changing her mind. Pretty stupid behaviour. She could have said "No I will not surrogate" or she could have spent the money Rob gave her on the abortion. She was a grown woman which makes me less sorry for her than Ben and also I can't help liking May. May and Steven are two of my favourites. She didn't need to start up the affair with Rob a second time even if Rob advanced - she could have said "No not interested. You stay with your wife" - then all this wouldn't have happened.
30-04-2008, 12:16
Siobhan

Lizzie.. I can't help but think there is a degree of "master plan".. He is holding Lucy, there is thinking required in that... He is getting rid of the person who knows about this.. there is thinking in that..
May thought carefully how to get the baby from Dawn, Sean thought about the whole "make it look like suidcide".. You can't say he doesn't know what he is doing..he is controlling all this.. even in his state.
30-04-2008, 12:21
Lizzie Brookes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siobhan

Lizzie.. I can't help but think there is a degree of "master plan".. He is holding Lucy, there is thinking required in that... He is getting rid of the person who knows about this.. there is thinking in that..
May thought carefully how to get the baby from Dawn, Sean thought about the whole "make it look like suidcide".. You can't say he doesn't know what he is doing..he is controlling all this.. even in his state.

At the moment yes I agree with that. I agree that since he got ill again yes Steven has some kind of "master plan" and yes May and Sean planned too. But, what I am saying is that I think it was only after he moved back in with the Beales that he planned this. Before January like I said there was no plan. He was better.
30-04-2008, 12:24
Siobhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie Brookes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siobhan

Lizzie.. I can't help but think there is a degree of "master plan".. He is holding Lucy, there is thinking required in that... He is getting rid of the person who knows about this.. there is thinking in that..
May thought carefully how to get the baby from Dawn, Sean thought about the whole "make it look like suidcide".. You can't say he doesn't know what he is doing..he is controlling all this.. even in his state.

At the moment yes I agree with that. I agree that since he got ill again yes Steven has some kind of "master plan" and yes May and Sean planned too. But, what I am saying is that I think it was only after he moved back in with the Beales that he planned this. Before January like I said there was no plan. He was better.

I don't know... I said from the start.. he is a minipulator.. he knew what he was doing... Hold a gun to his head, nobody is going to allow him to kill himself.. setting himself on fire, how do you know he didn't expect stacey to follow, he should have gone somewhere more private... Packing his bags and leaving after he heard what happened to Jane, again another bluff... Sorry I know you like him but I think he has this planned all along.. and now with the Christian (he came on to me), he is going to pit Jane against Ian... he wants Ian for himself and nothing or nobody is going to stop him
30-04-2008, 12:30
Lizzie Brookes

I agree with the bit about Christian but not with the rest of what you are saying. You'll be saying next he faked all that shaking in the car. I think that is going a bit too far. I think it was only planned from the time that he moved back in with the Beales maybe or from the time he witnessed Ian slapping Lucy. I still can't hate him though. As he is leaving alive they may find some way to write him back in, in the future. And, like I said if he wants Ian to himself why does he not object to Peter being around? You make him sound like a male Janine. We must agree to differ on Steven to some extent.
30-04-2008, 13:55
Siobhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie Brookes

And, like I said if he wants Ian to himself why does he not object to Peter being around? You make him sound like a male Janine. We must agree to differ on Steven to some extent.

He is kinda a male Janine... Who know if getting rid of Bobby and Peter wasn't his next steps
30-04-2008, 14:49
Lizzie Brookes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siobhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie Brookes

And, like I said if he wants Ian to himself why does he not object to Peter being around? You make him sound like a male Janine. We must agree to differ on Steven to some extent.

He is kinda a male Janine... Who know if getting rid of Bobby and Peter wasn't his next steps

Well you think so and that's fine. I don't though. But Janine did genuinely love her father - she mourned for him and she was right about scratchingh her name in that wall/gate. Also, when she told Barry she was using him (though she manslaughtered him and watched him die which was horrible) Barry said there was a moment when she must have been genuine and she did not deny it.