Very, very sad, Gloria :(Quote:
Originally Posted by GloriaW
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Very, very sad, Gloria :(Quote:
Originally Posted by GloriaW
you are missing the distinction between ill and terminal.Quote:
Originally Posted by swmc66
If someone, human or animal is ill, I would advocate all treatment available to help them recover or have a good quality of life
but if someone is terminal and suffering with no hope of any treatment other than relief then the choice to end their suffering should be an option
I made the decision to put my cat to sleep when his liver cancer progressed to start eating his muscles an insides. I had treated him with medication for 18 months prior to that and his quality of life was good...until I had to watch he cancer literally eat him from insideQuote:
Originally Posted by Ruffed_lemur
so I should have waited for him to 'simply die on his own'?
amazing...
So agree! That is a very important distinction.Quote:
Originally Posted by sarah c
So agree! That is a very important distinction.Quote:
Originally Posted by sarah c
In my previous careers I dealt with dozens of suicides and although very few people know what goes through the mind of someone who commits suicide I know from experience the devastation they leave behind. They leave behind families who feel guilty that they did not do more or guilty because they feel guilty for something they perceive they did to drive the person to suicide.
That said when someone like 'Hayley' decides along with their partner to die with dignity then the circumstances are entirely different.
In my previous careers I dealt with dozens of suicides and although very few people know what goes through the mind of someone who commits suicide I know from experience the devastation they leave behind. They leave behind families who feel guilty that they did not do more or guilty because they feel guilty for something they perceive they did to drive the person to suicide.
That said when someone like 'Hayley' decides along with their partner to die with dignity then the circumstances are entirely different.
How about a society in which living things don't suffer unnecessarily if there is no chance of survival?Quote:
Originally Posted by swmc66
You're dead on about the guilt factor. It's nearly always present in suicides. The survivors feel they should or could have done something to have prevented it. And I totally agree with you about the distinction concerning a terminal individual.Quote:
Originally Posted by alan45
You're dead on about the guilt factor. It's nearly always present in suicides. The survivors feel they should or could have done something to have prevented it. And I totally agree with you about the distinction concerning a terminal individual.Quote:
Originally Posted by alan45
I couldn't stand by and not help my pet who was suffering. That would have been worse then anything. Too often it's pet owners who haven't the courage to take the step and instead will let the animal linger on suffering. That's not compassion, that's selfish irresponsibility to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazzle
The question for you is, should the person who is suffering have the right? You are talking about rights here, what about the right to make that decision by the person who is suffering?Quote:
Originally Posted by swmc66
Probably, yes. Animals can't tell us how they feel, humans can. Why take the word of a vet who doesn't know the animal though? If you have a bond with an animal you would know what they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by sarah c
It hasn't been about I with me either. What I'm trying to say is I couldn't cope with doing something that my pet doesn't want. Society has made most pet carers believe that euthanasia is ok. I just don't believe it! Much money is made out of it too. Once the power is given to euthanase, it tends to be overused.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazzle
I'm quite capable of making my own decisions, thank you!!!! :angry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruffed_lemur
I'm not one to follow like a sheep just because others think something's ok.
I never said you couldn't make your own decisions. Sorry. In my experience, people I've heard talking at the vets seem to see no alternative, and think the vets know best. So sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazzle
Most owners of animals will want to take care of their pets until the animal is in obvious pain, discomfort, too sick and suffering to carry on living. While some animals will go away to die, usually when they have become old, however, like humans, animals don't just decide to die, vital body organs need to shut down first which, as in humans, can take a long time, but we don't put an animal on a morphine drip to keep it alive until death eventually occurs. Any respectable vet will also not put an animal to sleep unless it is really necessary for the animal to be out of pain.
That's exactly what you implied by stating "Society has made most pet carers believe that euthanasia is ok", as if the pet owner's themselves just go along with whatever society and/or vets dictate without making their own decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruffed_lemur
I've had enough of your stupidity now and will be putting you on my "ignore list" (I hope that's possible on this forum as I've never had to do it before). I can't bear to read any more of your ignorant views :angry:
Edited: done!
And I'd known him for 16 years and his look said 'enough make it stop....'Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruffed_lemur
....
I don't know who you've heard talking at the vets, but I'm a pet owner with more than a quarter of a century of working with cancer patients, so when a dr or vet says something, I can tell if they're not giving the full pictureQuote:
Originally Posted by Ruffed_lemur
...
I think we should stop this conversation now as it is obviously upsetting people. This thread was about Hayley and somewhere it has been overtaken by another issue. We all have our opinions and whatever side of the viewpoint they are valid to that person. We are not saying you do not love and care for your pets. It's obvious you all do.
The "somewhere" this thread has been overtaken by another issue was with your comment "I have never understood people putting animals down either" on page 21 of this thread...Quote:
Originally Posted by swmc66
I thought I might of done. Anyway let's end it and talk about the show that's what this forum is about.
Vets are experienced professionals and IMHO they will not just put down a healthy dog without good reason. In my experience they spent a lot of time discussing the possible treatments, likely outcomes and yes the costs too, To say that vets use euthanasia as some sort of money making scheme is plain ludicrous. With the demise of the poor sick animal then thats another income stream gone and besides by recommending more treatment instead of euthanasia he could rake in more money by pointlessly prolonging the animals life.
So that's ok then.Quote:
Originally Posted by sarah c
True. The main thing that annoys me with Hayley wanting to end her life is it's not even about the pain, it's because she doesn't want to be seen as Harold. It may not have happened!Quote:
Originally Posted by swmc66
It's pretty obvious when an animal is suffering and a correct diagnosis as to what to expect in terms of their survival is available with the present state of veterinary medicine. More accurate is the scenario of a pet owner having the courage to face reality and take the action which would help end their pets suffering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruffed_lemur
That brings new depth of meaning to the word rationalization. If you can't tell when an animal is suffering then I think there may be a bigger problem here. And if you can't accept the medical evidence then all reason has gone out the window.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruffed_lemur
Your pet should have been seen by a vet on a regular basis - if only to get the regular vaccinations so the vet should know your animal!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruffed_lemur
I think it should go to it's natural conclusion. Obviously the Corrie storyline has hit a nerve not only here but with people all over the country. Airing opinions and examining issues is healthy. Not facing realtiies, such as the need to end a suffering pets life, is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by swmc66
I also think that enough has been voiced on the subject of pets and maybe leave it at that now :)
I'd say let everyone decide for themselves. If they have something they'd like to say, do so. If it isn't something someone wants to respond to, don't and post something different. The natural progression of discussion threads take over and it's not up to some individuals to pronounce the direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perdita
I'd say let everyone decide for themselves. If they have something they'd like to say, do so. If it isn't something someone wants to respond to, don't and post something different. The natural progression of discussion threads take over and it's not up to some individuals to pronounce the direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perdita
Then maybe another thread should be started titled "Do you believe in having pets put down or not" or something on that line under General Discussion, this is a thread on a Coronation Street spoiler
Leave it alone and let it fizzle out like most discussions eventualy do, instead of trying to dictate what people can or cannot post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perdita
Leave it alone and let it fizzle out like most discussions eventualy do, instead of trying to dictate what people can or cannot post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perdita
It appears to have fizzled out anyway
I mean really know them. You don't get to know an animal by administering treatment!Quote:
Originally Posted by Perdita