Eastenders - Current Episode Discussion - VIII

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Originally Posted by Dazzle

I think it was more complicated than that. Ben definitely factored into the decision to marry Sharon, but Phil seemed genuinely happy to have married Sharon. He appeared to have no regrets about it afterwards.



What I meant was, why would Shirley tell everyone she slept with Phil when he can take his revenge on her by revealing her secret about Mick? That would have kept me quiet if I was Shirley.



No, Phil definitely didn't enjoy saying those things to Shirley. I do believe that he cares for her in his own way. However, the fact that he did what Sharon told him (even though it made him so uncomfortable) means that he wants to stay with her (and not just for Ben) in my opinion. Ben is an adult. Just because Phil decided he didn't want to be with Shirley because of her hatred of Ben didn't automatically mean he had to marry Sharon - unless that's what he wanted.



I did consider doing this as I was loathe to miss the rest of the episode. I think even watching the scenes fast forwarding would have stressed me out though (because of the recent experience of someone close to me).



Definitely! I think Sharon and Shirley are both complete doormats for chasing Phil even after everything he's done to them. I think it's a great pity that two otherwise strong women are written this way.

I should have guessed you wouldn't be over Shirley and Phil, Mona. I'm sure it'll be revisited in the future - the writers won't be able to resist. :)



Definitely not so little!

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I believe it was for bens sake. Espiciially more so now. Ben told him to go to sharon AFTER they were already married, if he was so in love with sharon, why did he not leave the table and try to sort things out with sharon? Instead he was staring at shirley. He wasnt overly happy IMO as soon as they got inside the vic and shirley was there, he wasnt happy. Shirley wound him up a lot.

If phil wanted to say those things, why did he ask sharon "what do you want me to say?" He clearly didnt want to say it, thats why again i add it was for bens sake. As he wouldnt have even gone after sharon if ben didnt tell him to.

In last nights ep, phils first concern was for shirley. Not sharon. People might think it was for their own concern not to shop shirley in, but he didnt need to ask if shirley was ok. He wasnt bothered about sharon being at the hospital.

Phil knows that if he got with shirley, theres a chance he could loose everything. There is a greater risk of phil being with shirley than there is with sharon. Sharon is safe and easy, he knows with sharon he gets a family life and could make it work. With shirley, she could leave within a day and everything could fall apart.

I also think something happened at xmas that we dont know about, and this is part of phils persistence to make things work with sharon,

I cant see phil telling mick the secret, which is another reason why i believe he loves shirley, if he didnt give a damn that would be his first thought

Id be fine if they just showed it clear if phil loved shirley or not. I know a lot of people are very confused and mixed thoughts about it. Its not as clear cut imo

I think that Phil was unhappy Shirley was at the wedding mainly because she's such a loose cannon that he was afraid of what she might say/do. With very good cause as it turned out! He also (hopefully) felt guilty about using and abusing her (yet again).

I agree that Phil's first concern being for Shirley was contradictory of his choosing Sharon. Just because I believed that he was genuinely happy to marry Sharon on their wedding day, doesn't mean that I think he doesn't care for Shirley or that he won't come to regret his marriage (perhaps even immediately). He may keep vacillating between the two of them as long as all three characters are on the square.

I don't think the writers are going to show whether Phil truly loves Shirley or not anytime soon. They love that people are debating this issue so hard! I've read that Letitia Dean has said that Phil and Sharon's marriage is

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for the long haul, so it doesn't sound like Phil will leave Sharon any time soon.

If he didnt love shirley, why couldnt he answer her outside the registry office when she asked if he would choose her?

Again, if he was so in love with sharon, why didnt he leave the table or react to sharons pleas? Ben begged him to go. He didnt seem interested

Jamie b said a few times both love triangles were similar, sharon is as jealous as abi was over jay/lola.

Even if they do stay together, i wont ever believe phils love for sharon is real. If she left him he probably wouldnt care

Why just cos phil is with sharon, it couldnt be shown he loves shirley? Just cos hes not with shirley dont mean he dont love her, it is possible to love two people. It would cause issues with phil and sharon, and also means phil isnt happy. I dont want to see him happy

Also, if that is true about him not being happy around shirley, then if he was worried shed say something, why did he not even try to stop her saying it when it was obvious she was going to?

If he didnt love shirley, why couldnt he answer her outside the registry office when she asked if he would choose her?

Again, if he was so in love with sharon, why didnt he leave the table or react to sharons pleas? Ben begged him to go. He didnt seem interested

phil is a selfish b*stard who wants both sharon and shirley, shirley will accept his bad side, while sharon will accept ben and be a trophy wife by his side, phil deserves neither

poor linda will she tell anyone please soon, come on dr mick he helps everyone else with their problems notice Linda's change and help her

phil is a selfish b*stard who wants both sharon and shirley, shirley will accept his bad side, while sharon will accept ben and be a trophy wife by his side, phil deserves neither

poor linda will she tell anyone please soon, come on dr mick he helps everyone else with their problems notice Linda's change and help her

Im so annoyed if thats supposed to be it,how can they use shirl as a plot device and just trash her off as nothing?? it doesnt make any sense, phil doesn't "Hate" shirley, that is clear. he was defending her since he woke up so we're supposed to believe he suddenly hates her:S he seemed to be defending her at first till he seen how annoyed sharon was

its not very fair dtc tweeted in june phil was torn between them and had feelings for shirl if this was all a lie. how does this make any sense "she's the victim, i hate her" how can you hate a victim?

Poor lost Linda is a shadow of her former self. :( It's very frustrating that her family and friends seem almost blind to her distress.

Dean... :angry:

I didn't understand it when Phil said "she's the victim, I hate her" either. Maybe he meant that she's playing the victim? I don't think that Phil actually hates Shirley though.

I don't think there's any doubt after the latest episode that Phil wants Sharon. He was practically begging her not to leave him. It's not all about Ben either, as Phil is way too selfish to put himself out like that, even for his son. He had the perfect opportunity to let Sharon walk away last night, but he didn't want to let her go. It's easy to forget their long, long history sometimes and I'm glad we were reminded of that last night. I found their scenes at the hospital compelling, if frustrating.

Shirley has gone. I think phil is genuinely hurt she left and didnt even bother to see how he was. Hes married now, what else is he supposed to do?
When sharon was telling phil about how shirley brings pain to people, you could tell he was hurt
Had he had his way at the reception, hed have been with shirley. Only now shes gone he has no option
He genuinely did want to see shirley, but mick told him pretty much she wasnt going to get in touch.
He wasnt begging sharon in tuesdays episode, only after she told the police about it not being shirley.

I dont believe phil and sharon are soulmates, ill always believe he chose shirley and sharons 2nd best. He didnt even tell sharon he chose her.

Phil would do literally anything for ben, hes a very family man, very loyal. Hes messed up his r/ship with shirley when he did want to be with her IMO. If ben came to hate sharon, he'd do the same for him over her. Phil did kick sharon out over lexi, so if sharon puts a foot wrong with anyone he'd do the same no question.

Phil will probably be happy for a week or so, shirleys out of sight and mind. She returns in november :)(hope thats ok for me to post that in here)

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Originally Posted by monalisa62003

Phil would do literally anything for ben, hes a very family man, very loyal

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Sorry, but this doesn't ring true for me at all, so I had a quick look on Wikipedia for a reminder of some examples of Phil being "loyal" to his family (including partners):

"...having an affair with Sharon Watts (Letitia Dean) who was married to Grant"

"Kathy and Phil eventually sort out their differences and marry and they have a son, Ben (Matthew Silver), making Phil feel neglected and depressed so he turns to alcohol and develops an addiction. This makes him abusive and neglectful towards Kathy and Ben..."

"He and Kathy reconcile when he attends counselling until he begins an affair with fellow alcoholic Lorna Cartwright"

"...Phil pulls out a gun and shoots at the dashboard, causing Grant to crash into the River Thames"

"Phil is unsupportive when his girlfriend, Lisa, has a miscarriage and he starts domestically abusing her..."

"Peggy locks him inside her home so he cannot have access to drugs, but, suffering withdrawal symptoms, he escapes and confronts Peggy, setting the pub on fire..."

"Shirley supports Phil through recovery. They steal a large amount of money from Phil's cousin, Roxy Mitchell..."

"Phil reacts badly when he discovers Ben is gay, and makes it clear that he prefers Billy's foster son, Jay Brown."

No doubt there's plenty more examples of Phil's callousness to his family. He talks the talk about family but always puts himself first when push comes to shove, which is why I don't believe for a moment that Phil would be with Sharon solely for Ben's sake.

Fun reading at 3.00 am for an insomniac!

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Originally Posted by monalisa62003

Phil will probably be happy for a week or so, shirleys out of sight and mind

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I agree with you there at least. :)