Zoe Slater

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Originally Posted by squarelady

Dennis didn't mess Zoe about. He told her on the day of the fair ground accident that he loved Sharon and that she'd always be second best and she chose to accept that.

Like I said, it wasn't love it was obsession. She should have walked away then with her self respect intact.

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EXACTLY... she KNEW he LOVED Sharon... it's her oun fault for staying with him in the first place... she should have left then... but she continued to deny the fact... he LOVED Sharon... she knew that...

she's so used to getting what she want's, when she want's it... because she's been so spoilt growing up that she thinks everything has to be her way... AND IT IS NOT... I agree she DID have a bad childhood... But she can't continously use that as the reason for her mistakes... she always had the choice to tell Dennis the truth... but she CHOSE not to... she needs to take responability for HER actions... then people MIGHT care

sorry bout that... but Zoe makes me soooooooo angry...

Okay dennis might of cheated on zoe with sharon in the end but they were in love fair enough it must of been hurtful to zoe but dennis was honest with zoe he told her at the fairground incident that he loved sharon and she not get her hopes up and shouldnt expect anything from him and by zoe knowing that she made the decision to be with dennis.

Also before sharon and dennis had the affair zoe had warning signs all over the place one of them was that night in the club when zoe asked dennis to tell sharon that he didnt love her and to tell her that zoe was the one he wanted he never told her that should of been a clear indication for zoe to get out of the relationship but she didnt even kat her mother told her as well i think she knew dennis and sharon were in love as well as she said they really looked in love when they spent the night in the nick. :lol:

Sorry leanne but I disagree Zoe did not love Dennis she was obsessed it was obsessive lust no where near love if she loved him and he loved her they'd still be togehter

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Okay dennis might of cheated on zoe with sharon in the end but they were in love fair enough

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So if you cheat on your partner its ok if you love the other person. I dont think so. He should have never have been with zoe in the first place. He should have done the honest think and ended it.

People go on about how immature Zoe is but I dont think Dennis is that much behind, he's emotionally immature.

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Originally Posted by judejude

People go on about how immature Zoe is but I dont think Dennis is that much behind, he's emotionally immature.

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i agree they are both rather immature, the difference being i think is that part of dennis immaturity in this was cos no one had ever properly loved him whereas zoe has never learnt from her mistakes or grown up from being the little girl who was spoilt by her entire family and used to getting her own way

I dont think she'll ever learn from her mistakes, but being spoilet by her family is not really her fault. Maybe they did it casue she was Kats child rather than actually Charlies???

Dennis and Zoe are both immature. And Sharon should know better too :)

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Originally Posted by judejude

I dont think she'll ever learn from her mistakes, but being spoilet by her family is not really her fault. Maybe they did it casue she was Kats child rather than actually Charlies???

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i know its not her fault but she should have learnt by now that getting her own way and being the centre of attention cant always happen. and yes they prob did spoil her cos she was kats child rather than charlies

Opps sorry my mistake it was an writing error of course it not right to cheat on someone you are going out with even if you are in love with someone else :angel:

Completely agree judejude and Walford Queen both Zoe and Dennis are immature and this showed through out the whole relationship probably one of the worst matches in soap history

I don't think Dennis is immature at all! What's the justification for that comment :searchme:

Emotionally Dennis is very immature he flies off the handle easily he USE to go from one girl to the next using them because he didn't know how to form realtionships

He uses sex and violence to mask the fact that he isn't as grown-up as he likes to think deep down he's a 12 year old boy craving love and affection you saw it in the early days when he tried to impress Den he was desperate for a fathers love

this is my opinion but I do think Dennis is emotionall immature

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Originally Posted by squarelady

I don't think Dennis is immature at all! What's the justification for that comment :searchme:

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He used Zoe just to get to Sharon at one point :)

Exactly where are we Walford or School playground or Dennis laa laa land

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Originally Posted by judejude

So if you cheat on your partner its ok if you love the other person. I dont think so. He should have never have been with zoe in the first place. He should have done the honest think and ended it.

People go on about how immature Zoe is but I dont think Dennis is that much behind, he's emotionally immature.

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I totally agree with all your point there JudeJude. Dennis should have ended it ages ago and he is emotionally immature in the way he handles things. He goes of in a huff and takes the back door when things a get a little too heated for his liking. However, I do think life has made him what he is. Dennis never had a chance of a proper childhood so he is living it out through his adult years, if that makes sense. :) This is why he behaves the way that he does He has had it far worse than any characters in the square and Zoe's life looks like a bed of roses in comparison. Dennis’s character is an interesting one and a complex one at that. His past experiences have an obvious significance to his behaviour now.

Going back to what Leanne said. I disagree. When Zoe slept with Jamie- she was selfish. Regardless of age, she saw that he was already in a relationship with another girl but it didn’t stop her from getting what she wanted and then there was Ronny who she got with from the second he dumped her best mate Kelly. That shows very little in her loyalty as a mate.

As for Sharon, as your 14 years old I doubt you could remember much of the sharongate storyline. :) I only remember bits vaguely. Anyway, when she had an affair with Phil it wasn’t for selfish reasons. Back then she was in a volatile marriage where Grant would smash glasses around and get hysterical. Also he went out for nights on the town and leave her alone while he used to go out sloshed. Her marriage hit the rocks and Phil was the only bit of companionship she had. Her mum was drinking herself to death half way across the world and Den was 'dead'. She seeked comfort in that and that’s how the affair started. When Grant was in prison they both wanted to tell him when he got out but then it got really complicated when they split and he got with Kathy. What I'm trying to say, (after all this waffle) is that when she went with Phil it was more to do with her feelings and loneliness and not selfishness Also Grant was no model husband so I lack sympathy for him in that respect. Sharon is no angle by any means but I don’t paint her the same way as Zoe. out of 20 years Sharon has told 4 of her partners that she loved them and meant it so thats not all. Grant she loved but her love for Dennis out-wighs that. Sharon was the love of Grants live but he was never hers. When she talks about it, there are unhappy memeories and a part of her past. I do think that there will be tention but I doubt she would leave Dennis for him. She has shown more for him, than any of her previous partners.

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Originally Posted by Joel_Beckett_Lover

Emotionally Dennis is very immature he flies off the handle easily he USE to go from one girl to the next using them because he didn't know how to form realtionships

He uses sex and violence to mask the fact that he isn't as grown-up as he likes to think deep down he's a 12 year old boy craving love and affection you saw it in the early days when he tried to impress Den he was desperate for a fathers love

this is my opinion but I do think Dennis is emotionall immature

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Right! Got it! Yes, because of the child abuse and his past I totally agree! *nods*

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Originally Posted by leanne27

at least we know zoe actually loved dennis she did everything she could to keep him, whereas what did sharon do? not accept his apologies and keep him in suspense for months, their relasonship has always been on again off again on again off again, and you know what when they return together, the viewers of eastenders will just become bored with them, at least when zoe was with dennis the viewes actually cared about the storyline. Now with zoe leaving and shannis able to be together the producers and viewers especially me will realise that sharon and dennis are just like any other egular couple and will grow boring as there is no longer anyone tying to split them up.

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Funny I feel the exact opposite

Since the storyline turned into a dire love triangle, the whole thing lost it's momentum. It was so predicable and repetitive. Dennis was to-ing and fro-ing between Sharon and Zoe for months and it was the same thing all over again. When Zoe was with Dennis, from my experience talking other on various forums about this, people actually lost interest. Firstly, Dennis and Zoe had no chemistry and people got so annoyed with her bunny boiling ways. Not only that Dennis became a bit of a wet fish and I love Dennis but his interaction with her did him no favours in that character development department. It just seemed so contrived and very few people wanted them together while there was and still is a massive support network for shannis.

Sharon and Dennis are two very complex characters. They don’t need a third party to spice it up. Den doing that was great. Zoe-nope, boring. With Dennis sexual abuse, Sharon’s infertility, Den's death and both thier psychological problems there is more than enough to keep them going as a couple and they certainly don't run the stale factor as much as others given the individual depth to both.

Also why should have Sharon accepted his apologies after the way he treated her? He dumped her after promising her the world. Should she just jump back in the sac with him after a couple of request? He hurt her, which is why she stalled. Also the fact that she couldn’t give him a child also played a part in that. I don’t believe Zoe loved Dennis. As someone else has pointed out, it was more obsessive and that’s just not the same.

I've already posted by views further up the thread but I agree with Alisha.
You don't do that to someone you love! You don't sleep with their dad! And Sharon's giving up everything for him...if that's not love I don't know what is.

i like zoe but she can be a bit boring sometimes , but when i think about it , i only dont ike zoe because i do like chrissie or do like dennis , but i actually really like zoe (ive just realised hehe) xxx

I liked Zoe. I am a huge Chrissie fan...well obsessed really but that's not the point. I will always side with Chrissie in the argument because of what Zoe did to her.

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Originally Posted by squarelady

I've already posted by views further up the thread but I agree with Alisha.
You don't do that to someone you love! You don't sleep with their dad! And Sharon's giving up everything for him...if that's not love I don't know what is.

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but on the other hand you dont move in with someone whilst in love with someone else??

I don't like Zoe...and I've only skim read thread but Dennis is emotionally unbalanced, which is to be expected considering his past, Sharon was his first proper relationship, and he loves her. Maybe he shouldn't have been with Zoe, but she knew he loved Sharon and she still wanted to be with him. So Zoe was as much in the wrong as he was. If she didn't want to be with a bloke who was in love with another woman then she shouldn't have tried to get back with him after the fair...

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Originally Posted by judejude

but on the other hand you dont move in with someone whilst in love with someone else??

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Dennis had convinced himself that he could never be with Sharon because it was wrong. For his and her own sake he tried to make a conscience effort to leave Sharon behind him because Den manipulated him into thinking that was the right thing to do. He tried things with Zoe but she was far to possesive. He practically drove her back to Sharon and she could see she was doing it. She couldn't control herself.

As for Dennis being emotionally unbalanced, yes. Due to the child abuse he's suffered and his past experiences he is. Sharon understand this. She knows everything about him and loves him for who he is. Zoe doesn't have the first idea who the real Dennis is!

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Originally Posted by judejude

but on the other hand you dont move in with someone whilst in love with someone else??

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But Dennis was trying to bury his feelings for Sharon and move on with Zoe, he didn't set out to intentionally hurt Zoe!

He knew he loved Sharon though and it was true love, he can't escape from that no matter what he does. Zoe was always going to get hurt. They are both immature, that's a fair and reasonable comment to make.

I think they ruined Zoe's characher by dragging her into it all. They should have left Dennis and Sharon to get on with it (they had enough problems with Den). There was no need to get Zoe involved.

Zoe is immature [and in my opinion lacking in brain power]
Dennis is immature, and emotionally unstable
But Zoe knew Dennis didn't love her so it was obvious she was going to get hurt in the end, it was her decision to stay with him.

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Originally Posted by Walford Queen

They are both immature, that's a fair and reasonable comment to make.

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Yes but they are both immature in very different ways.

Zoe's immature because she's been wrapped in cotton wool her whole life. They saw her as being a product of Kat's mistake and they spoiled her. They made her self obsessed by making her a centre of attention in the family to cover up for what had happened. Things just got worse when she found out Kat was her mum. It turned her whole world upside down and since then she's been paranoid about secrets. She was desperate for Dennis to love her no matter what. She was immature because she didn't understand what a real relationship was about and it was a shame that she didn't have enough respect to walk away rather than settle for second best.

Dennis was abused as a child. He's emotionally immature because he never had love. His mother disowned him because she hated his father and his father disappeared. When he came to the square Sharon and Vicki were the first people who accepted him as family. He didn't feel comfortable with it and although he thought he had loving feelings for Sharon when Den came back Den managed to manipulate him into thinking otherwise. He didn't know what love was meant to feel like and all he ever wanted was a father that loved him. Sharon and Dennis both fell into the trap of giving everything up for their father. Dennis did realise alot later that he loved Sharon as a girlfriend and not a sister.

I think out of anyone Sharon is the one who could help him work through the problems of his child abuse and really keep him on the right track and he'll look after her too. I think they are a perfect match and I think the longer he's with her the more he's becomming less emotionally immature and more aware of what real love is. I love Shannis because I love watching that develop. Simple as...

I totally agree. Sharon brings out a side to Dennis that no one else can do, he's developing emotionally, and that brings something new to EE as well, it's very rare you get a character as emotionally unstable as he is and so Shannis and the relationship of the makes excellent viewing not only because they are a great couple and have amazing chemistry but because it's bring something new and powerful to the show!

I'm not a fan but I dont hate them either. The trouble was the storyline started to grate once Zoe got dragged into it, there was enough issues going on as it was without a getting her involved (I think someone has already said that). Also I dont think it helped with scriptwriters having to write scripts to fit in with actors breaks etc

I do wonder if Sharon would still be with Tom if he was still alive and Dennis came along??

I think so, I think Dennis would have got under her skin eventually. Not many people have been able to stop them have they!

I think Dennis would've still worked Sharon round to him even if she'd been with Tom, it's not like he's easy to resist is it?

Not really and he can't keep his hands off Sharon for more than two minutes at a time. He's been through the denial thing...now moving on!

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Originally Posted by judejude

The trouble was the storyline started to grate once Zoe got dragged into it, there was enough issues going on as it was without a getting her involved (I think someone has already said that). Also I dont think it helped with scriptwriters having to write scripts to fit in with actors breaks etc

I do wonder if Sharon would still be with Tom if he was still alive and Dennis came along??

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I agree with you again.

I always thought that the introduction of Zoe was a huge mistake to the storyline.
Her presence was unnecessary and she should have never been pushed to the forefront. Back in April 2004, there was enough storylines for the pair to keep them going and they had already hit jackpot with Den's opposition on them as a couple. He made far better viewing than irritating Zoe. It annoyed me how her character replaced Den's position as ‘third party’. I know technically it was always Den who was the main contributory factor, but his perception of them was shoved aside and instead we had a rather flat love triangle which beared no resemblance to the original plot line. I would have preferred to see them both stand up to Den and him using his malicious ways to keep them apart than Sharon/Dennis/Zoe and the personality transplants that tptb performed.

I personally don’t think Sharon would have lasted with Tom, even if Dennis wasn’t around. He was all around nice guy but Sharon needs someone who can tame and excite her (thats Dennis :wub: ). Also Dennis was right when he told her 'if he hadn't have died, he only would have ended up boring you to death.' Very insensitive but true. :)

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Originally Posted by squarelady

Not really and he can't keep his hands off Sharon for more than two minutes at a time. He's been through the denial thing...now moving on!

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I think I need to go back to NHO and the Shannis sex thread before I say something that'll get me into trouble...

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I agree with you again.

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Steady on!!!

I liked Tom!!

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Originally Posted by judejude

Steady on!!!

I liked Tom!!

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He was ok :hmm: but he wasn't right for Sharon but he treated her well. :)

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Originally Posted by Alisha

He was ok :hmm: but he wasn't right for Sharon but he treated her well. :)

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He was nice, shame he blew up!

Tom wasn't right for Sharon, like Dennis said she'd 'never be happy with an uncomplicated bloke'

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Originally Posted by squarelady

He was nice, shame he blew up!

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What a charming turn of phrase you have there.