cant see that happening somehow.................Quote:
Originally Posted by CC_Rickman
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cant see that happening somehow.................Quote:
Originally Posted by CC_Rickman
not literally kill him
but have a go at him when he comes
unless zoe admits it all before hand
She better not!!! She touchs him I'M COMPLAINING!!! LOL!! No one hurts Dennis and Gets away wit hit i mean look at Den!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by CC_Rickman
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woooahh!!! wish i'd never made the post lol! the reason why i said zoe should get revenge on sharon and dennis is because sharon is so much more older and mature than zoe, and so is dennis, sharon could see that zoe was besotted with dennis, and STILL had her affair with him even though she knew it would ruin most people lives like zoe's, and den's and the rest of the watts family, the only people who would come out happy by it would of been them two! zoe, she was still young and nieve, and in the beginning sharon was very lenient with zoe, by telling dennis to be with her and you know what i didnt see dennis objecting! remember the time when dennis thought andy had hit zoe? and he went over there and punched him, well taht shows how much he cared fo her. and then when he found out that zoe had manipulated him just so she could seek her revenge on andy for her mum kat, well he then invited her to move in with him! it seems to me as though that when dennis discovered what zoe's plan had been (about the andy thing)manipulative he didnt care! so the rest of you shouldn't either (about her been manipulative) chrissie is also a hugely guilty party in the destruction of zoe's life, chrissie knew that zoe deep down wanted her baby, zoe kept on telling chrissie that the slater girls never got rid of their babies, she basically said to her that she didnt want an abortion, chrissie wouldn't even let zoe go fo a walk, whilst they were in the clinic cause she knew zoe would back out of it, no chrissie had to keep pushing and pushing her into it, SHE is the manipulative one, she even got sharon to come all the way from america just to hear what her dad was really like (that was evil!) chrissie only made zoe get rid of den's baby for her own petty revenge! she knew what den was like with all of his affairs so why stay with him? i can't forget that episode where chrissie took great pleasure in telling den that zoe had miscarried, i even felt a tiny bit sorry for him!. And den was the one who used sharon's infertility against her, HE gave zoe the idea about lying about the pregnancy and HE told her to go and speak to sharon on xmas day, zoe was just the puppet in her and den's relasonship. Zoe hasn't come out of this at all well, she has lost her baby, lost dennis, thinks she has killed den, has made an enemy of chrissie, thinks sam is her friend, and is soon to find out that sharon and dennis are now together. And if sharon and dennis were so in love then why did they keep splitting up? and getting back together again, even before zoe came on the scene, sharon often told dennis that she wasn't interested she has messed him around somehting rotten! and zoe has only ever loved him, she slept with dirty den! was willing to have a baby at such a young age just to keep him. oh and why did someone mention zoe's nastiness to stacey, have you heard some of the things she has said to zoe? stacey is a pure bitch who gets off on peoples unhappiness, she even tried to split up zoe and dennis, and so i dont blame zoe for going mad at her then!
I know what you're saying is mostly true... but no one can manipulate anyone that much... if she really wanted to keep her baby all she had to do was say no! that she didn't want to go through with it... but she didn't... she kept mentioning the slater girls and they wouldn't do it... she she is one of them and SHE did it.. she could have walked out of the abrotion clinic if she wanted to but she didn't...
Stacey may be a bitch... but think about it... Stacey tried it on with Dennis and he turned her down... what more did Zoe need?... Dennis had a troubled childhood and he was just trying to talk to Stacey... if Zoe had any brains what so ever she should have seen the look of hurt on his face when she was talking Stacey being a 'slut'... she doesn't think about anyone but herself... she told Dennis that SHE needed attention, She needed to be loved, SHE wanted him to love her... that should have been a big clue for her, if she didn't think he loved her WHY did she stay with him?
i understand that Den gave her the idea of the 'fake' baby and put her in an arkward position at christmas... but she went over to see Sharon and made Sharon feel GULITY about what she was doing to the 'fake' baby... Zoe manipulated Sharon that night and she did it all on her own...
If you loved someone then you would let then go... making someone you 'claim' to love stay by your side because YOU want them there is wrong it's not love... she never once considered how Dennis would feel in her little plan...
and SHE slept with Den she didn't have too... she could have just walked away and told Dennis the truth... she loss all her self respect and the respect of people around her when she chose to sleep with another woman's husband over telling the truth and ending Den's rein of terror over her.. she could have told the truth... at any time during those few weeks she could have just told the truth and then she wouldn't have nearly killed Den... she wouldn't have had the abortion... and she'd still of lost Dennis, but WHy would you want to be with someone who DIDN'T lvoe you and LOVED someonne ELSE???
yeah i totally agree with you , it might have been a little desperate to say she waz preggers but still she is bearly an adult shes still young and i bet any teenagers ,late teenagers and young adults would do the same for the one they love and the one they want to be with for the rest of her life , even if she is still in her prime !Quote:
Originally Posted by leanne27
Barely an adult? She was 21. Just becoming an adult would be 18 and by then at least have some maturity. I honestly expected that behaviour from a 15/16 year old not someone's in their early 20's. I'm her age and I can't say that 'any' person wouldn't have done what she did. In reality they would have strangled Dennis for what he did and told them to shuv it -not still want them. Or if she really loved him, she would had thought beyond her own selfish needs and let him go. This is why I'm convinced that Zoe's feelings for Dennis were not truly love but quite an obsessive infatuation.Quote:
Originally Posted by kat 4 alfie
What she did was the lowest of low. Lying about a baby- yeah I think there are some desperate women who would do such measures to that to keep their men (more fool them) but sleep with their fellas dad no matter who much they were manipulated, defiantly not. The whole thing was contrived and Zoe’s portrayal is a very poor representation of a 21 year old. :)
remember zoe's life has seemed so far to of been full of lies such as kat saying she was her sister when she was actually her mum, then kat and anthony trueman lied about their feelings for one another when zoe was with anthony, and dennis continuously leading her on and saying he loved her when he didnt, he also lied to her when he said he no longer had feelings fo sharon if his feelings were so strong for sharon why didnt he just tell zoe? instead of leading her on for so many months, all she has ever done is try and make him love her and he clearly hadn't said no, and so zoe went on believing that he had feelings for her, and somebody else made a post saying how many times has zoe been in love now? well what about sharon? she's been in and out of love so many times, she's pratically loved every man in the square, she's had her taste of been in love and in a serious relasonship zoe hadn't ,and dennis! before his apparent love for sharon all he did was make his way round the women of walford, if their love is/was so strong why be with other people when they claim they love each other? remember sharon and james? why has it took them so long to realise that they should actually be together?
You are totally right alisha zoe is old an enough to know what is right from wrong and is also old enough to take responsibilities for her actions she made the decision to tell the lie she is old enough to pay for the consquences her lie borought she might of been manipulated but know one held a gun to her head she did it out of her own free will and she isnt as innocent as she make out to be
She could of stop it at any time when she found out den was only doing it to hurt dennis for sharon leaving but she decied not to her own needs got in the way of doing the right think or shall i say her desperation and selfishness got in the way of her thinking about anyone else once again
But one thing i would say is zoe is very naive for her age still when she talk about dennis for example she say i couldnt make him love me when i think of that word i think you dont make someone love you it should come naturally but i suppose zoe doesnt understand the concept of love very well for 21 year old. :lol:
He did tell her though. 2 months into their relationship he told her to her face that he didn't love her and that he still thought of Sharon. How much more blatant can you get and throughout their whole 8 month relationship he never once told her that he loved her. Surely any person with half a brain would know that the whole thing was a shame. Zoe however lived in this false hope that he one day could and ignored all the warnings for people, including her mum Kat and even Dennis but she took that risk and she's learned the hard way. The way Zoe has been used and abused by men in her life, she would learn from her mistakes and grow stronger, not repeat them. I have lost count of the amount of times that I’ve seen her get with a bloke who was in love with someone else and when they dumped her she would be on the street crying. Its exactly what you've said though she's 'tried' to make him love her but that’s not good enough. You either love someone or you don't and you can't force a feeling. That’s something that Zoe should have learned.Quote:
Originally Posted by leanne27
The difference between Sharon and Zoe love factor is that Sharon is in her mid thirties so of course she will have some men in the past that she loved. Zoe however falls in love with every bloke she claps eyes on. Jamie, Anthony, Ronny, Dennis. Sharon has had 7 relationships in 20 years and these aren’t just men she picked up from a club and flashed her assets to get their attention, but people she’s had deep feelings for. She was married to one and engaged to another. Being with every man in the square in very extreme I feel. She has been with Grant, Phil, Dennis, Tom and had a couple of short flings when she was younger. That’s hardly putting it about and then you have females like Kat and Sam. Need I say anymore? Dennis has had a taste of a serious relationship with Sharon. Zoe, nope but that’s because she sets herself up for a fall time and time again. She keeps going for men who are emotionally attached. At least the majority of the men that Sharon's been with have loved her and visa versa. She doesn't go for men because of thier looks and staus inthe sqaure. With Jaimie (blond floppy hair, popular boy at school) Anthony (sophisticated older man who happend to be her mothers ex) Ronny (Mr DJ) Dennis (older bad boy who she saw sprinting around the squqare one day and though that she was in love with him).
About your last point -Sharon and Dennis have always loved each other but it was never a case of them realising that they were meant to be together. They knew they were. Firstly when Dennis chose family over Sharon, that hurt Sharon deep. He promised her the world and after some words with Den he finished it with her. He thought that he wanted a family more but it became apparent afterwards that his love for Sharon out-weighted that for a father so he begged for her back several time. By then though, she rejected him because she was scared that he was going to hurt her again and you could hardly blame her for that. As they say 'once bitten twice shy'. Sharon went with James because she wanted to get on with her life and stop moping around. She knew that she loved Dennis but wanted to erase him from her mind. Den was the main contributory dynamic in their relationship, not Zoe and had he been not present they would have been together long ago. :)
i didnt mean it like that i just ment that she is / was young and hasnt got the resposibilities and hasnt has as much love experionce as say a 30/35 year old it waz uterly wrong the way she treated dennis but den was threatining that he would tell dennis about the whole preggers thing and that would end the relationship blackmailing a girl in her situation and what shes gone through is just wrong and i dont think zoe is as bad as you all put her out to be dens the evil one !Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisha
Den was not threatening to tell Dennis about the whole pregnancy lie, not once did he say that. He manipulated her into bed but she wasn't ‘blackmailed’ by any means. He gave her a choice all the way through. He suggested the idea and kept on it but in the end it was her choice to go through with it. Not once did he say 'sleep with me or I'll tell Dennis?' Therefore I don't construe it as blackmail. In fact Den gave her many opportunities to back out and said that 'you're here because you want to be' but she did it anyway. While Den did all the talking, she did all the walking.Quote:
Originally Posted by kat 4 alfie
I see your point about her being young and there for not having the same mental stability as Sharon but she is still an adult, whereas Michele Fowler was a minor (16) so I could generally sympathise with her :) I don't think Zoe is evil though and I don’t think anyone is implying that she is but she does share blame in what happened in the whole saga. Therefore she bears some responsibility, as do Sharon, Dennis and Chrissie but her behaviour has been the worst, but not as bad as Dens. You're right he was the real evil one.
thanks kat 4 alfie, i think exactly the same as you about zoe, she no longer had her mother around and so she became even more attached to dennis, or the infatuation with dennis, she is still only young and her past must still make her quite vulnerable, den minupulated her to such an extent that she aborted his baby, and had a nervous breakdown, she is constantly ordered about like people such as chrissie and den, she is not a a bad person and has been through so much and she's still only 21, and remember dennis still lead her on, by choosing her and then rejecting her again this made zoe even more confused than ever when he's been getting possesive over her flirting with over men, and then putting her in the freezer! lol
no actually he did blackmail her near the end of the storline about the pregnancy thing and keepin it from dennis. he did say that if she did not tell den then he would so that then zoe would have to sleep with him for dennis to stay with her and also den wanted that too .blackmailed/threatened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisha
yeah thats exactly it. and people say that they dont like her wineing and moaning , but who wouldnt cry and be scared after all shes been through ? she found out kat was her mum , she left home cuz she thought that it was her foult that kat took those drugs (she thought kat was dead), her mum took her man (anthony) and they were always fightin over him , her mums left home when she was the only one zoe could actually talk to and kat understud ,she was beening pushed around and blackmailed/threatened by den : he threatened that he would tell dennis, she alegidly killed den , and now chrissy is pushing her around , and sam is lieing to her (one of few who she could trust , and who is a good friend in her eyes) !Quote:
Originally Posted by leanne27
No I'm sorry but you got it wrong. Den did not once threaten to tell Dennis the truth. I remember correctly. All he did was manipuate her. There was no ultimatum there but psyhcoligical manipulation. He gave her a choice all the way and didn't say 'sleep with me or I'll tell Dennis' She did what she did because she didn't want to lose him and therefore only thought about herself. He said 'if Dennis isn't up for the job, then I'll have to do it' and thats when he continued to manipulate her but in the end it was her choice. She is not a school girl but an adult and an immature one at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by kat 4 alfie
Considering what she's been through you would mature from it. Zoe hasnt had it that hard. I can think of current characters a whole lot worse and killed to have had a life like Zoe's.
hardly any have had a harder life than zoe, she found out her sister was her mum and her uncle was her dad! she found out kat had never really wanted her, she was used by jamie, then fell in love with anthony and he was stole by kat, she was used by ronny and then disregarded, she then was involved in a bus crash and thought she was going to die, then when she got her crush on dennis i dont think she would of expected to be messed around by him, lied to by him, minipulated constantly by den, chrissie practically ordered her to have an abortion, zoe now thinks she has killed den! and on top of all that her mum kat is continuously dissapearing and leaving zoe alone, many of the squares residents have had hard lives, but not as complexed as zoe's at her young age.
Zoe didn't have it easy but 'hard' is not one of them. I think the main problematic issue in her childhood was discovering that her sister was her mother and her uncle her dad and all the surrounding issues but that’s about it. When it comes down to it she was bought up and raised in a large loving strong family unit and spoilt as a child. Not everyone gets that privilege and as for her previous failures in her partners, well that’s what you get when you chase men who are in love with other women. She shares a lot in the blame but ironically enough you never learns from it. The abortion was a decision she made but if I'm to have any sympathy for her it would be her thinking that she killed Den but that’s all.Quote:
Originally Posted by leanne27
At Zoe's age, Sharon had just buried her dad and been rejected from her natural parents. But instead of behaving childishly like Zoe, she decided to make a life for herself and move on. Also during Sharon's childhood Den was having his affairs while she had to play mother to Angie when she came back sloshed after her nights out on the binge. Then she had to later bury her later but first her dad. She was left with no one. Then you have Sonia Jackson and look how mature she is for her age. Her big extended family left her one by one at 14 including her mother, got pregnant at 15, had an adoption, her fiancé got killed but instead of acting immaturely she used her goals as a tool. She remained level headed and strong. She has shown more maturity for someone who has suffered a whole lot more. Then you have Kat who was molested by her uncle at 13 and had to keep that a secret. Worst of all though is Dennis whose his mum was an alcoholic (also like Sharons) and used to get her boyfriends to tie him up to a radiator with no food or water and throw him down the stairs. (this was what he told Vicki in rage once) Not only that, he got sexually abused by one of his carers in his children’s home. Characters like Stacey and Billy have also had it a whole lot worse than princess Zoe.
In comparison to some, it doesn’t look half bad. Zoe has always had a family who loved and doted on her and half the things that happened were things that she was not blameless for.(especially as far as men were concerned) so no I’m not at all convinced she had it overly hard.
exactly and she became a child prostitute , and got confused about her sexuality and had that short fling with kelly and snogged her, and then kelly left to go to spain ! if any of the stuff that zoe had/has done i would of gone over the rails and left home .Quote:
Originally Posted by leanne27
she has/had coped with it all very well , and i credit her .
I think, for her age Sonia's had a pretty complex life too?Quote:
Originally Posted by leanne27
i did not get it wrong , have you thought for a monent that you might have ? i remender it correctly , he threatened her in a nice not very odviouse way . he told her that he didnt want dennis to get together with sharron otherwise he will tell dennis about the baby !!!!!!! cuz odvo zoe will not let him do that so slept with him . you were wrong . he said that if you dont tell dennis about the baby then i will ! she did what any young immature adult would have done with all she has gone through , and didnt want to lose dennis like she has with loads of the people in her life death and departure ......... kat.........moe......lyn ......... her 'mum'............kelly........jamie.........'uncle ' harry and anthony truman ! that was before chrissy made her give up the baby !Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisha
I totally disagree. Fair enough she loved Dennis and she didn't want to lose him but it's was selfish! Purely selfish!Quote:
Originally Posted by kat 4 alfie
So she's lost alot of people in her life and she didn't want to lose Dennis but it was painfully obvious that Dennis didn't love her and she knew that. She knew she was second best and she chose to live with it.
Just because she'd been through alot gives her no excuse to ruin peoples lives....What about Chrissie? Before any of this happened with Den's murder what about her? She stood by Den and Zoe knew that and even though Chrissie had always been nice to Zoe she thought it was fine to sleep with her husband?
She did the same with Sonia and Jamie when she was younger. Yes, she's been through alot and it's sad but I don't think any young immature adult would do that. She's not immature anyway, she's heading on for twenty years old. Desperate...not immature.
I'm inclined to agree. The girl just didn't know when to let go.Quote:
Originally Posted by squarelady
No he didn't. :nono: I wish someone else can back me up here who remembers it as well as I do. Den did not say it and if I'm wrong I'll apologise and eat my words! I'm a huge shannis fan and therefore really captivated in the story etc so my ears were glued to every scene relating to them, including all the scenes with Den. He manipulated and used his powers of persuasion but he did not say do it or else. I remember him saying that if you tell him you're pregnant, he'll go straight to Sharon and that’s not mealy the same thing. There was NO blackmail what’s so ever -just lots of manipulation. He offered her a way out and she took it.Quote:
Originally Posted by kat 4 alfie
Like I said Zoe hasn't gone through alot and even if there was some one really immature like her in their 20's I can't them stooping that low. God help them if they did. I agree with everything squarelady has said too. The only person that has left her and come back was Kat. Jamie and Anthony were ex's and they were not that important to her so I don't see how her losing them would upset her. By the time Lynee left Zoe was 20. What's she gonna do? cry herself to sleep? As for Kelly, well she was gonna fly the nest someday. I've had important people come and go in my life too.
and Chrissie didn't 'make' her do anything. Who signed the papers here? Who said yes when Den suggested that they sleep together. Zoe is not an innocent victim but a selfish cow who rarely thinks beyond her own needs.
Good riddance to her!
I don't and god help all those who see Zoe as some sort of role model. For all she has been through, she has went backwards and not learned from her mistakes and used people to meet her own needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by kat 4 alfie
I agree that Zoe did do it for selfish reasons, but I am very sure that after she slept with Den once, he did blackmail her into been with him again. He did treaten to tell Dennis and said it would drive him back to sharon so inorder to stop that Zoe must sleep with him to get pregnant...Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisha
I think Zoe is a really bad role model.. she didn't learn anything from her mistakes and it was pityfully what she turned into just to keep a man... Do you know anyone who would go that low?????Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisha
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by Siobhan
It makes me ashamed to say that I'm 21 :sick:
No matter how much manipulation a 21 year old is under, no one (or the majority) would stoop to those desperate measures and I don't at all buy that 'anyone' in Zoe's circumstances would have done the same. The storyline with her and Den was based on sensationalism, therefore lacked realism.
Really? I could have sworn he didn't but if you say he did, then he did. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Siobhan
Sorry Kat 4 Alfie fan. I really thought that he didn't. It must have been worded different and/or pereived it differently. :) I've eaten my words :lol:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisha
i agree with you Alisha... I can't remembering him ever blackmailing her into sleeping... i know one time when she told him she was going to tell chrissie... he said said go ahead then she'd lose Dennis and he'd lose Chrissie but he'd still have the vic... or something like that...
he always gave her the choice... if she really didn't want to do it then she could have just walked away and told Dennis the truth... squarelady's right... she just didn't know when to stop...
Now I'm totally confused :lol: :rotfl:
but i'm glad someone else saw it the way I did. I never saw it as blackmail either, as there was a choice.
*nods* If you're confused so am I! I agree totally with what you said! Each to their own though!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisha
Zoe's lived her life where a whole house has revolved around her she's been brought up selfish and she is selfish plain and simple as for Shaorn and Dennis's affair they LOVE each other it wasn't a fling or a one night stand
Zoe is a desperate you can see it now even after everything I can't wait for Chrissie to give her a good slapping he he
I was going to bed but I had to pop in and agree. You can see she was brought up in a house that revolved around her when you look at the way she treats Stacey. If she's not the centre of attention she gets stroppy and childish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel_Beckett_Lover
I know they were only trying to do what was best for her but I think Charlie and Viv over compensated when they tried her feel like their daughter.
Exactly I'm not saying Zoe's innocent but if she wants something she goes and gets it and sods the consequences and they did over compensate in a big way and they in a way made who she is today self-obsessed and full of slef-importance
at least we know zoe actually loved dennis she did everything she could to keep him, whereas what did sharon do? not accept his apologies and keep him in suspense for months, their relasonship has always been on again off again on again off again, and you know what when they return together, the viewers of eastenders will just become bored with them, at least when zoe was with dennis the viewes actually cared about the storyline. Now with zoe leaving and shannis able to be together the producers and viewers especially me will realise that sharon and dennis are just like any other egular couple and will grow boring as there is no longer anyone tying to split them up.
It's a totally different situation. Sharon was in turmoil trying to accept the relationship with Dennis. She didn't know what to do and Den being back put a spanner in the works. She didn't keep him in suspense, she didn't know herself and as soon as she did she told him. Sharon's given up everything for Dennis.
If Zoe really loved Dennis she wouldn't have done half the stuff she did. It's not love, it's obsession.
I hope they do become a regular couple like any other. Sharon deserves to be happy and Dennis is the man for her. It'd be nice to see a couple just chugging along without complications for a bit. It's what Shannis fans have always wanted. Sharon and Dennis to be together with no complications. It may not happen for a while yet (with everything going on with Den) but when it does I'm sure people who were interested in the storyline won't find it boring!
im not gonna find it boring, what i found boring was when they introduced the love triangle, zoe with dennis was boring. i for one definitely didnt care much about the zoe and dennis storylineQuote:
Originally Posted by leanne27
Oh, and just another thing. That storyline for one didn't get me caring, it got me annoyed because I absolutely hated it! The only thing I cared about was what Zoe was doing to Dennis. There is no excuse for that behaviour, it's sickening!Quote:
Originally Posted by leanne27
even though dennis didnt lie to zoe to the extent she did but he still messed her around something bad, if it wasnt for the watts' zoe's life wouldnt have turned out like this, she could do with someone who is upfront and honest with her, and then maybe she'll be honest with them. And people keep going on about zoe and jamie and saying how awfull she was then by stealing him from sonia. But she was what? only 17/18 and jamie messed her about then too, sharon's affair with phill was a lot more seeded than that -grants own brother! and sharon was much much older than zoe was then. Sharon seems to be ALWAYS in love with someone.... how do we know its actual love with dennis? what will happen when grant comes back? she will then probably "suddenly realise" that she's in love with him again!
Dennis didn't mess Zoe about. He told her on the day of the fair ground accident that he loved Sharon and that she'd always be second best and she chose to accept that.
Like I said, it wasn't love it was obsession. She should have walked away then with her self respect intact.