I just read on ds forum that it is max who dies when andy tries to get max out of the car to safety the car explodes killing maxs
i dont know how true this is because i thought robert dies but i dont know :hmm:
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I just read on ds forum that it is max who dies when andy tries to get max out of the car to safety the car explodes killing maxs
i dont know how true this is because i thought robert dies but i dont know :hmm:
i think that is rong to do i mean shes only a teenager she proabably doesnt even know th meaning of love yet!!.....neway i think her n daz would make a nice couple but debbie jus goez for the older guyz n sex!!:confused:
Personally i think without Robert emmerdale will be quite boring, is it me but people always like the good guy whereas i think the bad guys always bring the entertainment, and andy has always caused the trouble but Robert has one of them attitudes that makes people think that he has begun the events that are so good to watch but devastaing to the village.
Your thoughts please.
Andy may have caused the trouble, his step mums death, shooting his dad , getting Debbie pregnant etc but he isn't 'bad' most of the above were accidents. He has horrendous luck
Robert is horrible i what he said to debbie in last nights episode, but at the end of the day he went to save his brother which i thought was sweet. I do agree though without him it wouldnt be the same even if he is a jerk.
Yeah im quite sorry to see Rob go but im sure he will be back oneday, he is a great character even though he has turned into a right a*** hole
I hate Robert, he's just horrible and causes so much pain, I'm happy without him though he did bring some great entertainment :)
is he returning?
I was wondering that too ....
Emmerdale bosses have confirmed that the character of Robert Sudgen will make a dramatic return to the soap this autumn.
The character, who was previously played by Karl Davies, left the village in 2005, but returned briefly for his father's funeral in 2009.
Newcomer Ryan Hawley will take over the role of Robert, who is due to reappear in the village later in October.
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...I2VMhqyKFdcefA
Fans have been speculating about Robert's return since his brother Andy (Kelvin Fletcher) received a text message from him earlier in the month.
Andy and Katie are currently preparing to tie the knot again but Robert's return will rock their rekindled relationship. Long-term viewers will remember that Robert and Katie once had an affair and there is a lot of animosity between the two brothers.
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Andy pushes a devastated Katie away telling her he only got back with her because she was the safe option
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Andy and Katie in Emmerdale
Emmerdale's series producer Kate Oates said: "I'm delighted to welcome Ryan to the show. Robert is a complex character and when we were looking for someone to take over the role, Ryan had the perfect balance of charm and edge.
"Robert Sugden's life has moved on in many ways... but those ingrained feelings - about his father, Andy, Katie, and the village where he grew up - are sure to find an explosive outlet."
Emmerdale bosses have confirmed that the character of Robert Sudgen will make a dramatic return to the soap this autumn.
The character, who was previously played by Karl Davies, left the village in 2005, but returned briefly for his father's funeral in 2009.
Newcomer Ryan Hawley will take over the role of Robert, who is due to reappear in the village later in October.
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...I2VMhqyKFdcefA
Fans have been speculating about Robert's return since his brother Andy (Kelvin Fletcher) received a text message from him earlier in the month.
Andy and Katie are currently preparing to tie the knot again but Robert's return will rock their rekindled relationship. Long-term viewers will remember that Robert and Katie once had an affair and there is a lot of animosity between the two brothers.
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Andy pushes a devastated Katie away telling her he only got back with her because she was the safe option
© ITV
Andy and Katie in Emmerdale
Emmerdale's series producer Kate Oates said: "I'm delighted to welcome Ryan to the show. Robert is a complex character and when we were looking for someone to take over the role, Ryan had the perfect balance of charm and edge.
"Robert Sugden's life has moved on in many ways... but those ingrained feelings - about his father, Andy, Katie, and the village where he grew up - are sure to find an explosive outlet."
I hope he isn't paired with Katy again
her and andy should up and leaveQuote:
Originally Posted by tammyy2j
her and andy should up and leaveQuote:
Originally Posted by tammyy2j
Emmerdale newcomer Ryan Hawley has admitted that he was nervous about taking over the role of Robert Sugden.
Robert arrives back in the village next week, as Hawley makes his first appearance in the part, taking over from previous actor Karl Davies.
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Ryan Hawley as Robert Sugden in Emmerdale
© ITV
Ryan Hawley as Robert Sugden
When Robert reappears in Emmerdale, he is joined by his wealthy fiancée Chrissie White (Louise Marwood), her father Lawrence (John Bowe) and her teenage son Lachlan (Thomas Atkinson). The family will be moving into Home Farm after Lawrence decides to buy the property.
Speaking of the surprise Robert recast, Hawley explained: "Obviously it was quite nerve-wracking. Robert is a popular character. Like any job, people come and go but when it's on TV, it's obviously a bit more noticeable!
"Robert has been gone for nine years now and that's a long time, so there's lots of things that will have happened that have changed him. There are a few surprises that will come out in a few episodes."
Robert's return will shake up life for his brother Andy, who has reunited with Katie Addyman this year. Katie previously cheated on Andy with Robert in a memorable affair storyline, and viewers will see that old wounds still run deep for Andy.
Hawley continued: "With the way things were left when Robert left the show, he comes in and quickly disrupts everything in the first couple of scenes. I think Andy will not like having him around, just as much as Robert doesn't want to be around Andy either! Robert doesn't want to be in the village at all, so now that he is, there's room for conflict. Robert definitely knows how to wind Andy up.
"You'll have to wait and see if Robert still has feelings for Katie. Obviously there is the previous relationship, but I believe that he genuinely loves Chrissie."
One of the main areas of conflict in the new family is Lawrence's disapproval of Robert. While Robert has been one of his loyal employees, Lawrence doesn't believe that he is the right man for his daughter.
Chrissie is also experiencing problems with 14-year-old Lachlan, whose behaviour has taken a turn for the worse.
"Me and John Bowe always have arguments over who's actually the bad guy in the Robert and Lawrence situation," Hawley laughed. "He always defends his character and I defend mine! Robert and Chrissie are planning a wedding but there's just one thing that's stopping it and it's Lawrence!
"You'll also see Robert's relationship with Lachlan over time. Lachlan is troublesome, and with Robert also having a bit of trouble when he was younger, I think it's maybe something that he can recognise.
"Robert is maybe a bit wary of him, but there are also similarities as Lachlan is someone who has a reason to have a chip on his shoulder or something he's a bit disturbed by. Hopefully they can find some common ground."
Hawley also revealed that he kept his new role a secret from his family even after he had started filming.
He said: "My family are massive fans of the show and I actually didn't tell them that I'd been cast because I wanted to keep it a secret. I knew that if they knew about it, it would just be a massive distraction.
"When it was released that I was going to be playing Robert, they were over the moon. I should have told them straight away because they just had this wealth of knowledge about the show. They knew more about my character and every other character in the show than I could possibly get from watching it for as long as I could!"
Today, episode finally provided some insight into why Lawrence doesn't like Robert and I think it makes sense. Lawrence is still a gay man even though he has a daughter Chrissy and was married to a woman. Robert's speech at the end of the episode that he lead Lawrence on makes sense. Even though Lawrence is old he still has a sex drive. Robert seems to be bisexual to me I think he and Lawrence had a fling BUT it did not last. Robert mentioned he KNEW Lawrence had the hots for him, got him a job to keep him in his circle. Robert might be right, Lawrence is jealous of the relationship Robert and Chrissy have because he is still in love with Robert. The spoilers also suggest something might happen between Aaron and Robert? Maybe Robert is sexually attracted to men still and he is bisexual?
Robert will be up to something, the great pretender
Robert is a homophonic bully who would sleep with anyone either gender imo to get what he wants
Emmerdale's series producer Kate Oates has revealed more details about Aaron Livesy's surprising new relationship with Robert Sugden, confirming that there will be a genuine attraction between the pair.
Last week, the ITV soap released a new trailer which featured footage of the two characters sharing a passionate kiss - sparking much speculation among fans about whether Robert really likes Aaron or whether his romantic interest is all part of a con.
Speaking at an Emmerdale press conference on Monday (December 1), Oates cleared up the confusion by confirming that Robert is attracted to men as well as women.
The show returnee's feelings for Aaron will develop into an affair, which will no doubt jeopardise his future with wife-to-be Chrissie White if the truth ever comes out.
Oates explained: "Chrissie doesn't know about the relationship with Robert and Aaron, and that's obviously going to be a long-burner. She doesn't know that her husband-to-be has this tendency that he also fancies men, so that might be a big surprise to her!"
In a chat with Digital Spy, she later added: "Robert is very different from his brother in that Andy can live in the terraced house in the village with the girl that he's always loved and be happy. He works as a farmhand on the farm where he grew up, he doesn't need any more and he's a really happy guy like that.
"Robert always wants more - there's never enough. He's in a position now where he's with Chrissie and he's in the big house on the hill. He's also got Lawrence in his back pocket now, but it's still not enough.
"Robert is still taking risks and seeking adrenaline. He just wants more all the time. I think Aaron is going to be a victim of that to a certain extent, but the attraction between them is genuine."
Praising Danny Miller and Ryan Hawley - who play Aaron and Robert - Oates continued: "What I really like is that the lads have done a great job of creating that chemistry.
"In the scenes where they're together, you absolutely believe it and I think that they've done brilliantly with that. It's genuine to a point, but Robert will always be out for himself!"
The show's top boss also confirmed that Karl Davies, who previously played Robert, was offered the chance to return to Emmerdale. When he declined the opportunity, a decision was made to recast the role with Hawley in the part.
She said: "I spoke to Karl intermittently since arriving at Emmerdale. It just got to a point where this opportunity came up. I wanted to bring the character back and asked if Karl was interested, and explained that if he wasn't then we might have to look elsewhere. I understand why [he didn't want to return] - he's doing other things and he's doing incredibly well.
"At that point, I knew that we were recasting a really big character. I knew that I wanted Robert to get together with Aaron and that there'd be a big story for him. It was a big gamble, but I think it's paid off.
"We are seeing a Robert with a different side to him now, or certainly a side that is magnified from the old Robert - because I think that Machiavellian side has always been there. We've just expanded on that and the recasting was a good chance to do it, so I think it's been a blessing really."
Okay so Robert's bisexuality is confirmed! I am glad that the producer of Emmerdale confirmed it! This is unique TV tends to ignore bisexuality especially in MALES. I Am glad Robert is bisexual this story could be good if the producers play it right.
.Male Bisexuality is a bit of a theme on
Emmerdale Serena.
A man called Jarvis was Bisexual became
involved with Paul - Vals son - who was gay.
Grayson Sinclair married to Perdita later
admitted he was gay .Katie was a surrogate
for them.
Regarding Robert its a bit of a surprise - if
he is actually Bisexual and not just manipulating.
I always thought his main drivers were money
power and causing trouble before sex- with
anyone. When in prog before he was involved
with various females- but always an agenda!
My limited real-life knowledge is of older
men marrying much younger women without
the women being aware of situation at least
intially. So another scenario.will be interesting-
I hope.
.Male Bisexuality is a bit of a theme on
Emmerdale Serena.
A man called Jarvis was Bisexual became
involved with Paul - Vals son - who was gay.
Grayson Sinclair married to Perdita later
admitted he was bisexual..Katie was a surrogate
for them.**
Regarding Robert its a bit of a surprise - if
he is actually Bisexual and not just manipulating.
I always thought his main drivers were money
power and causing trouble before sex- with
anyone. When in prog before he was involved
with various females- but always an agenda!
My limited real-life knowledge is of older
men marrying much younger women without
the women being aware of situation at least
intially. So another scenario.will be interesting-
I hope.
** There were others Im sure- but cant bring
them to mind at the mo.
But this storyline is different it makes no sense for Robert to want Aaron he has got it all! He has a beautiful girlfriend Chrissie, he has Lawrence in his back pocket and he has a good paying job. Now it seems like to me that Aaron does not seem like the kind of guy to be a second fiddle? Aaron seems too smart for this? Also Robert is the one who has everything to lose not Aaron. I wonder if the writers will bring in another guy to the story?Quote:
Originally Posted by maidmarian
But this storyline is different it makes no sense for Robert to want Aaron he has got it all! He has a beautiful girlfriend Chrissie, he has Lawrence in his back pocket and he has a good paying job. Now it seems like to me that Aaron does not seem like the kind of guy to be a second fiddle? Aaron seems too smart for this? Also Robert is the one who has everything to lose not Aaron. I wonder if the writers will bring in another guy to the story?Quote:
Originally Posted by maidmarian
It may well work out as you hope. We will knowQuote:
Originally Posted by Serena Williams
as the storyline plays out and Roberts motives
become clearer.I doubt it will just be that Robert
has had suppressed Bisexual feelings for some
time- other factors will emerge.
I can see the logic of some of your reasoning.
But soap plots arent always logical.!
Time will tell.!
It may well work out as you hope. We will knowQuote:
Originally Posted by Serena Williams
as the storyline plays out and Roberts motives
become clearer.I doubt it will just be that Robert
has had suppressed Bisexual feelings for some
time- other factors will emerge.
I can see the logic of some of your reasoning.
But soap plots arent always logical.!
Time will tell.!
Emmerdale's series producer Kate Oates has revealed more details about Aaron Livesy's surprising new relationship with Robert Sugden, confirming that there will be a genuine attraction between the pair.
Last week, the ITV soap released a new trailer which featured footage of the two characters sharing a passionate kiss - sparking much speculation among fans about whether Robert really likes Aaron or whether his romantic interest is all part of a con.
Speaking at an Emmerdale press conference on Monday (December 1), Oates cleared up the confusion by confirming that Robert is attracted to men as well as women.
The show returnee's feelings for Aaron will develop into an affair, which will no doubt jeopardise his future with wife-to-be Chrissie White if the truth ever comes out.
Oates explained: "Chrissie doesn't know about the relationship with Robert and Aaron, and that's obviously going to be a long-burner. She doesn't know that her husband-to-be has this tendency that he also fancies men, so that might be a big surprise to her!"
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Chrissie soon goes looking for her fiancé unaware Robert has started this clandestine liaison with Aaron
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Robert will juggle relationships with both Aaron and Chrissie
In a chat with Digital Spy, she later added: "Robert is very different from his brother in that Andy can live in the terraced house in the village with the girl that he's always loved and be happy. He works as a farmhand on the farm where he grew up, he doesn't need any more and he's a really happy guy like that.
"Robert always wants more - there's never enough. He's in a position now where he's with Chrissie and he's in the big house on the hill. He's also got Lawrence in his back pocket now, but it's still not enough.
"Robert is still taking risks and seeking adrenaline. He just wants more all the time. I think Aaron is going to be a victim of that to a certain extent, but the attraction between them is genuine."
Praising Danny Miller and Ryan Hawley - who play Aaron and Robert - Oates continued: "What I really like is that the lads have done a great job of creating that chemistry.
"In the scenes where they're together, you absolutely believe it and I think that they've done brilliantly with that. It's genuine to a point, but Robert will always be out for himself!"
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Does Aaron's plan have the desired effect on Robert?
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Aaron could be playing with fire
The show's top boss also confirmed that Karl Davies, who previously played Robert, was offered the chance to return to Emmerdale. When he declined the opportunity, a decision was made to recast the role with Hawley in the part.
She said: "I spoke to Karl intermittently since arriving at Emmerdale. It just got to a point where this opportunity came up. I wanted to bring the character back and asked if Karl was interested, and explained that if he wasn't then we might have to look elsewhere. I understand why [he didn't want to return] - he's doing other things and he's doing incredibly well.
"At that point, I knew that we were recasting a really big character. I knew that I wanted Robert to get together with Aaron and that there'd be a big story for him. It was a big gamble, but I think it's paid off.
"We are seeing a Robert with a different side to him now, or certainly a side that is magnified from the old Robert - because I think that Machiavellian side has always been there. We've just expanded on that and the recasting was a good chance to do it, so I think it's been a blessing really."
Theres now an interview with Producer where
she says it will develop into affair.
Mentions Robert being out for himself and
being Machiavellian!!
Theres now an interview with Producer where
she says it will develop into affair.
Mentions Robert being out for himself and
being Machiavellian!!
All I hope is Aaron does not end up being the stereotypical sad gay man chasing the bisexual/straight guy. The producer says stuff to get people interested to watch. I just hope Aaron is not going to end up losing in the end?
I hope that too Serena. Ive always liked Aaron-Quote:
Originally Posted by Serena Williams
tho he did get a lot of criticism.in his first run
in Emmerdale.
I dont take what any Soap producer says particularly
seriously but the over-hype does sometimes
show why there are so many pot-holes in plotlines
and where the next will be.
I hope that too Serena. Ive always liked Aaron-Quote:
Originally Posted by Serena Williams
tho he did get a lot of criticism.in his first run
in Emmerdale.
I dont take what any Soap producer says particularly
seriously but the over-hype does sometimes
show why there are so many pot-holes in plotlines
and where the next will be.
Robert Sugden's feud with his sister-in-law Katie hots up on Emmerdale next week after she realises he is having an affair.
With Katie (Sammy Winward) growing increasingly suspicious over Robert's behaviour, she sneaks a peek at his phone and spots that he has been exchanging flirtatious messages with a contact listed as 'A'.
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Ryan Hawley as Robert Sugden
Failing to realise that Aaron Livesy is the person in question, Katie jumps to the conclusion that he is secretly seeing Alicia Metcalfe, a situation that Robert quickly tries to turn to his advantage…
Here, Ryan Hawley – who plays Robert – chats about the drama to come.
How is Robert feeling about his relationship with Aaron?
"It's a really exciting and thrilling relationship because nobody else knows about it. Robert goes to Aaron to get all of the fulfilment that he doesn't get from Chrissie. He likes the danger, too. Robert is very devious and he loses interest very quickly, so Aaron is his next project."
How would you describe Robert's feelings for Aaron?
"In Aaron, Robert sees someone who he can be himself around. Aaron possibly knows him better than anyone else to some extent. He is also someone that Robert finds very attractive and he's gratified by him in that sense too."
Moving forward, would Robert be happy to marry Chrissie while continuing to have Aaron as his bit on the side?
"With the way things have been going, that's a dilemma that Robert is going through and it's not really clear what his final choice is going to be. He's still going through that, so we'll have to see how that pans out.
"I'd say there's absolutely no way he will throw Home Farm away, even if he fell head over heels for someone. Home Farm is his big flagship trophy."
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Aaron and Robert
Does Robert feel guilty about betraying Chrissie?
"Yes, because Robert genuinely does love Chrissie. I imagine that when they first met, Robert had finally found someone that he was excited by. She was smart, sophisticated and many other things that he hadn't experienced in a woman before.
"Robert certainly wouldn't want to hurt Chrissie's feelings. If his relationship with Aaron were to come out, it would upset Robert purely because of how Chrissie would feel."
How does Robert feel when he finds out that Katie has gone through his phone?
"He's really surprised about it but he's also absolutely furious that she's meddling in his affairs. To take somebody's phone out of their pocket and do something like that is nasty and I think it really rubs Robert up the wrong way.
"After what happened at the wedding, Katie has a vendetta against Robert that she's never going to let go. She's really got it in for him. Robert has also got this long-term feud with Andy and Katie. Maybe he's jealous of what they have, with their childhood relationship that blossomed."
Why do Katie and Chas think Robert is seeing Alicia?
"When Katie finds the phone, she sees that the contact he's been exchanging flirtatious messages with is listed as 'A'. Coincidentally she sees Robert chatting to Alicia, who's working behind the bar at The Woolpack filling in a shift for someone. There's a bit of flirting and Katie misconstrues the situation.
"Robert is very manipulative and as soon as Aaron warns him that Katie thinks he's having an affair with Alicia, he really runs with that and has a lot of fun with it. He uses Alicia to make Katie believe that he really is having that affair, just so he can absolutely humiliate her!"
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© ITV
Katie sneaks a peek at Robert's phone
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© ITV
Robert's plan begins to work
Does Robert manage to humiliate Katie?
"He gets to do it in a very public place – in The Woolpack of course! He sends lots of signals to Katie by flirting with Alicia and it's all for her benefit. It does all come out, but you'll just have to wait and see how."
What kind of consequences do you expect if the truth comes out about Robert and Aaron?
"It would be absolutely disastrous because it would absolutely shatter Robert's world. He's come back with all of this status and he's the king of the castle, so that would all be taken away from him and his world would just crumble down.
"More importantly, Robert really loves Chrissie and he wouldn't want to hurt her in that way. He thinks it's fine to have a bit on the side and what Chrissie doesn't know won't hurt her."
Is Robert aware of how much Aaron is falling for him?
"I don't believe Robert is that observant or caring of people who he might see as being peripheral to his universe! I don't think he really sees their emotions as being that important to him. He possibly sees them as being a bit expendable."
What did you think when Emmerdale's producer Kate Oates told you about the story?
"To play someone who is so devious is so much fun. You don't get to be nasty in normal life without any consequences, but I get to do that here!
"More importantly, Robert's particular storyline over this period of time is absolutely brilliant. He's come in with so much history and he has this impending wedding to Chrissie after falling for someone else. He also has the secret of his bisexuality to hide from everyone. I thought all of that was going to be really exciting and I think it's going well."
Have you had any reaction from fans?
"I'm not on Twitter as I'm quite a private person. A few people have asked for pictures and whatnot and that's great. Everyone's been very pleasant!"
He looks too young to be Robert
Emmerdale's Robert Sugden continues to play games in tonight's episode (February 2) as he asks Andy to be his best man.
As the ITV soap kicks off a must-see week, Robert (Ryan Hawley) puts on a show of happy families by helping Andy and Katie to move into their new caravan.
Making sure that Katie is in earshot, Robert leaves Andy stunned by asking him to take on the role of best man at Thursday's wedding.
While Andy is initially reluctant, he soon warms to the idea when Robert suggests that it's time to put their troubled past behind them. However, Katie isn't fooled and can see that he's just trying to wind her up.
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Robert asks Andy to be his best man
© ITV
Robert asks Andy to be his best man
Sammy Winward, who plays Katie, explained: "Katie has to bite her tongue at this point. She knows that Robert is doing it to get at her and he doesn't really want Andy to be the best man.
"Katie knows that everyone will turn against her if she says something, although she does tell Robert that he may be fooling everyone else, but he's not fooling her."
Why does Katie think all the time that Robert wants to wind her up??? If he does in this case who can blame him after all her obsessive behavior towards him? Katie is just mad..
ryan is doing a decent job as robert i have forgot about karl
I agree, one of the only recasts I have actually preferred.Quote:
Originally Posted by lizann
I still miss Karl but I am slowly getting used to Ryan
Emmerdale producer Kate Oates has revealed that Aaron Livesy's loved ones may be in danger due to bad boy Robert Sugden.
Aaron's mother Chas Dingle (Lucy Pargeter) and close friend Paddy Kirk (Dominic Brunt) are both aware of his recent fling with Robert, which could land them in hot water with the ruthless character later in the year.
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Robert arrives and Aaron implores him to call off the wedding, telling him he loves him.
© ITV
Emmerdale's Aaron and Robert
Robert (Ryan Hawley) recently had a role to play in the death of his sister-in-law Katie after she uncovered his affair and threatened to tell his wife Chrissie the truth.
Speaking about long-term plans for the storyline, Oates teased: "I think the important thing to remember is that Robert has gone to extreme lengths to protect this secret. Now more people know about the secret, as Paddy knows and Chas knows. That puts Robert in a slightly dangerous situation, but possibly it also puts people who are close to Aaron and know the truth in a slightly dangerous situation as well.
"We all know from soap deaths that it's a slippery slope - once you've done one, you might as well do some more! I think that Aaron may have inadvertently put people in the firing line, but that will be a longer arc."
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Robert meets with Chas and Paddy.
© ITV
Robert with Paddy and Chas
Future episodes will also explore Aaron's guilt after he helped Robert to cover up his part in Katie's demise. Viewers saw Aaron (Danny Miller) agree to deal with the crime scene while his secret lover headed off to marry Chrissie.
Oates continued: "Aaron has really fallen for Robert, but he is absolutely struggling with his guilt because when Robert went off and got married, Aaron was in a position where he covered up the footprints at Wylie's Farm and he stood there while Katie went cold. He then walked away and turned his back on her.
"That's obviously something that Aaron will carry deep in his heart, so he's got a journey to try and process that. We know that Aaron doesn't cope well with guilt, as we saw that after the Jackson story.
"I think what will be interesting to see is how long Aaron can cope with being Robert's bit on the side. We saw before Katie died that it was rapidly becoming not enough for him and that will have to get to a pressure point at some time soon."
Oates also confirmed that Aaron's recent trips out running are a way for him to punish himself as he struggles to cope with his inner turmoil.
She said: "We'll see him running until his feet bleed sometimes and going out several times a day. Because he has been through a period of self-harm before where he was cutting himself and putting out cigarettes on himself after the Jackson story, he's trying hard to channel it in another way.
"Aaron doesn't want to go back to that place, so he's just channelling it through punishing himself physically but almost in an 'allowed way'."