I've been reading through couple of discussions/comment sections in different papers on Facebook, and generally viewers are really disappointed on this Deirdre-storyline, and the funeral.
I'm not surprised at all...
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I've been reading through couple of discussions/comment sections in different papers on Facebook, and generally viewers are really disappointed on this Deirdre-storyline, and the funeral.
I'm not surprised at all...
but the loss of Anne, and Deidre was such a big issue and saddened so many people, that they were never going to be able to do it justice? no matter how hard they tried?Quote:
Originally Posted by mariba
I was sceptical to say the least about Peter's missing the funeral, but I actually really enjoyed the funeral episodes. The only parts I didn't like were Billy (could they not have got an actor back who played a vicar who knew her?); Ken and Tracy. His cold attitude in the house was understandable I felt, but he took it a bit far in the church. Plus Carla's non-attendance. Her gambling addiction isn't that bad yet surely; Sophie and the Nazirs weren't there that I noticed (Sophie definitely wasn't.)
I think the pacing has let it down - she hasn't been dead a week and she's already been buried! It's been pretty full on through the episodes since then, so although it's better than poor Jim Branning who hardly got any focus, it could have been better. I think also they shouldn't have released so many details so early. It seems ages ago that we heard about the returns of Bev and Robert. Perhaps having been anticipating something for so long, some degree of disappointment was inevitable.
Edit: And the clapping. It's a funeral, not a speech about the works of Charles Dickens! Oh, and we had three Maddie mentions, but not a direct mention of Kal.
I wish they had focused more on the funeral though and wish they had kept Bethany´s shenanigans for another episode. I also found the clapping at the end of Ken´s eulogy a bit strange, I guess maybe they were applauding Deirdre rather than Ken´s speech?
I have heard applause after euologies at funerals. And you're right, Perdy, it is really for the deceased.
I guess the idea of Peter missing the funeral is going to play some significant part in upcoming episodes. It has already had an effect on Simon and maybe there will be something about who caused Ken and Deirdre more grief, Tracy or Peter? I can't think it was just because Chris was unavailable for the episode, if it was he would probably have been left out altogether.
Tracy was out of order. Cannot believe what she was planning when her mum iwas not even cold in her grave
I didn't see the big deal in that tbh. Announcer said before the episode "all time low" for Tracy. I thought murder was her worst?!Quote:
Originally Posted by swmc66
From what I've been reading elsewhere, what most people are unhappy about is the intercutting of Deirdre's death episodes with the Callum/Sarah/Bethany story. I think we're all agreed that was intrusive and ruined the atmosphere at certain moments.Quote:
Originally Posted by mariba
Corrie never solely focus on one story as Eastenders does, and I think that's fine. Unfortunately, the silly Callum storyline just felt completely out of place running alongside Deirdre's funeral. Personally, I found cutting from Deirdre's photo (when the congregation was singing), to Bethany downing shots in the Dog and Gun particularly jarring.
Sophie was mentioned several times as being unable to face the funeral so soon after Maddie's. The same probably goes for Carla - we we saw her walk away quickly as if she couldn't cope. No doubt she went gambling to try and soothe her anxiety.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
As far as Billy goes, surely it's normal for the vicar in residence to hold the funerals?
We don't actually know how many days later the funeral was held. Soaps often obfuscate their timelimes by not teling viewers how much time has passed. I assume it was done that way because the Corrie team wanted a week or so of consecutive episodes that concentrated on Deirdre.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
I don't think there's any way they would have left Peter out if Chris was willing to do a few days' filming, even if he couldn't make the funeral scenes. I'm sure they'd find a way to write around his schedule if at all possible. Whether that's what's happened is impossible to say though.Quote:
Originally Posted by parkerman
Was Robert's return only planned after Anne died so Deirdre was too?
I found his return and get together with Tracy were rushed and tasteless
It was meant to be tasteless going by Ken's reaction, but I could have done without the scene personally. Perhaps it was done to quell any sympathy viewers might have for Tracy over her mother's death?Quote:
Originally Posted by tammyy2j
As I think most of you will know I am not Tracy's greatest fan on here....however, I do feel compelled to actually give her some support over her "scene" with Robert. She was feeling desperately alone and unhappy. Her mother had died and the only father she had really known had rejected her at the funeral, a very vulnerable time for her. She must have been desperate for some love and affection and there was her ex-husband, someone she had presumably loved and maybe still had feelings for, willing to comfort her (and more!) I don't think it is at all unreasonable that Tracy should have wanted to "get close".
I'd agree with you if we were talking about anyone else Parkerman. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by parkerman
However, as far as I'm concerned Tracy wasn't desperately upset or lonely because she's not capable of deep feelings. Moreover, the scene didn't come across to me as two people comforting each other, but instead as two people overcome by lust.
deirdre's death is all about tracy
Tracy and Robert scene was ok for me, I just wished Ken wouldn't have seen it..
I think it was especially cruel from Ken to accuse Tracy crying crocodile tears!! For goodness sake! Deirdre was her mum, and they did love and care for each other! As educated as Ken pretends to be, he should know better!
He should have held back as it was her mums funeral. But she did act inappropriately later and agree it it was more about lust than comfort. This women is not normal. She smirks when she sees buildings on fire
Unfortunately, a good education doesn't mean a person has emotional intelligence. In a fraught situation it's all too easy for people to say and do things they'd usually leave unsaid.Quote:
Originally Posted by mariba
Anyway, whatever the rights and wrongs of Ken and Tracy's behaviour, no doubt all will be forgiven soon enough. I'll remain team Ken no matter how vile he is to the psycho murderer though! :D
I agree with parkerman on the subject of Tracy feeling lonely and she is grieving for her mum, people can do silly things at a time like this and I think Tracy trying it on with Robert was an act due to her grieving, don´t think even lust came into it much, she probably just needed somebody to hold her for a bit and trying to get him into bed would have achieved that ... Ken too is grieving and saying things to Tracy he will later regret, I am sure.
I don't want to defend Tracy's past actions or behavior in any way-I agree there's something totally wrong with her personality. BUT-whatever she's done, whoever she's hurt in the past-Deirdre was still her mum, and Tracy still knew her the best, even better than Ken. Deirdre was the only person who loved her unconditionally and maybe one of the very few that Tracy really loved too.
Rather than finding a letter about funeral arrangements, I would have liked to see Tracy finding a letter from her mum to herself. I think that would have been expected too when she stayed away longer because of being ashamed of her(stupid reason..but hey..)-she could have been writing her thoughts down on the paper.
I don't want to defend Tracy's past actions or behavior in any way-I agree there's something totally wrong with her personality. BUT-whatever she's done, whoever she's hurt in the past-Deirdre was still her mum, and Tracy still knew her the best, even better than Ken. Deirdre was the only person who loved her unconditionally and maybe one of the very few that Tracy really loved too.
Rather than finding a letter about funeral arrangements, I would have liked to see Tracy finding a letter from her mum to herself. I think that would have been expected too when she stayed away longer because of being ashamed of her(stupid reason..but hey..)-she could have been writing her thoughts down on the paper.
Regarding Deirdre's death storyline..I was thinking the other day-did we need Deirdre's funeral? Maybe she could have moved to Canada with Ken or something. As much loved as Barlows, and Ken are-what are they(writers) going to do with him now anyway?? It's just sad to see that family now without Deirdre so maybe it would have been better to change everything..Ken&Deirdre abroad, burn down the house and re-decorate it for Tracy&Amy etc.
Wow..I can't believe the posters lining up to defend Tracy! :D
Sorry, but to me she'll always be a cold-blooded murderer who's shown no remorse whatsoever for Charlie's death; indeed, she's even joked about it! Then again recently, she was responsible for two deaths and shown little emotion about it. She's not only allowed Carla to take the blame, she's actively spread the rumours that encouraged it! Only a couple of weeks ago, she delighted in ruining Liz's life by gloating about her affair with Tony. As far as Deirdre goes, it's absolutely true that her mother was the only person who loved her unconditionally, but Tracy didn't show her the same love or respect.
Tracy's past colours her present and future in my eyes. She's been written for years as someone who's not capable of remorse, guilt or real love. She uses and manipulates people to her own end without caring about the effect on them (and that includes her close family). Remember, she sold her daughter to Roy and Hayley!
Therefore, there's no way that I'm going to be persuaded that Tracy's the kind of person who's going to be deeply distressed at the loss of her mother, no matter how those scenes are written or acted. Lizann puts it perfectly above: Deirdre's death is all about Tracy.
If the writers use Deirdre's death to try to redeem Tracy, there's no way I'll find it believable. Leopards like Tracy do not change their spots in real life.
I'm not trying to defend Tracy as such and I agree with you, Dazzle, about her nature in general. All I was saying, in response to others who had posted on here about Tracy's lack of feeling by ripping off Robert's clothes on the day of her mother's funeral, was that I think there was good reason for it. And I do think that even Tracy had feelings for her mother and felt deeply hurt by Ken's rejection at such a time. We might say well it's nothing less than she deserves. That's as maybe and I wouldn't disagree with that, but I can see why she would want to seek love, affection and comfort with Robert and not purely as an uncaring selfish act.
I don't deny that Tracy has some feelings about the death of her mother, I just don't believe they're feelings you or I would class as "deep". They're more about her loss than about Deirdre herself.
As I fearedSpoiler:
Tracy is Deirdre's daughter-in good and bad. We have to remember that Deirdre wasn't an angel either..
I've said this and say it once more-I think Tracy genuinely loved/ misses her mum, I don't agree with some comments that she wouldn't be capable for such feelings. Of course she is. For Deirdre, Amy anyway..and Ken and Peter&Si too. She loves her family-and she did love Rob(I hate they had to split them up and make Rob the murderer). But it's her darker side, that need for revenge when things go wrong..that's when she changes her colours. But of course-it wouldn't be interesting if she was good and a model citizen. :)
Tracy is Deirdre's daughter-in good and bad. We have to remember that Deirdre wasn't an angel either..
I've said this and say it once more-I think Tracy genuinely loved/misses her mum, I don't agree with some comments that she wouldn't be capable for such feelings. Of course she is. For Deirdre, Amy anyway..and Ken and Peter&Si too. She loves her family-and she did love Rob(I hate they had to split them up and make Rob the murderer). But it's her darker side, that need for revenge when things go wrong..that's when she changes her colours. But of course-it wouldn't be interesting if she was good and a model citizen. :)
Tracy treated Deirdre like dirt a lot of the time, and often delighted in mocking her and being spiteful to her just like she does everyone else. She went out of her way to hurt her, without provocation, many times.
Deirdre wasn't an angel but she wasn't deliberately cruel. Tracy spends her whole life saying the cruellest thing possible because she enjoys the hurt she causes. She isn't even just outspoken like Blanche was: hurting people is her favourite pastime. She's a sadist.
Her dark side is there in virtually every day-to-day interaction, it's not something that only comes out when she feels wronged. Remember how she spitefully mocked a dying Hayley? It's part of her core personality, and that's why I'll never believe she can change. People like her just don't; the prison system's full of them and no psychiatric help can change them.
Tracy was only ripping Roberts clothes off because she was after a s**g, she is the street bike, didn't she once give David Platt a ride.
don't you see Tracey as damaged goods? and she has never truly been loved by anyone but Deidre? so she uses attack as the best form of defence?
people are going to let her down so get in and hurt them first sort of thing?
I am not a fan nor a hater but the psyche is an interesting one
I disagree, she did not hurt to protect herself when she tricked Roy Cropper into her bed and claimed she was pregnant by him and when she demanded 20.000 quid for handing the baby over to Roy and Hayley....She did not hurt to protect herself when she claimed Becky pushed her down the stairs causing her to have a miscarriage or by getting Tony to cheat on Liz and then try to get the Rovers for herself ...and lots of other things she has done over the years that were downright nasty but uncalled for...
She teased him but they never did it in the endQuote:
Originally Posted by Snagglepus
I simply don't think that's true Sarah. Ken isn't blind to her faults but he loved her enough to adopt her, and I doubt he's going to chuck her out of the house even though he's been so angry with her. He's forgiven her many a past wrong. She's a daughter to him, and I've no doubt he'll soon forgive her for upsetting Deirdre by having the affair with Tony.Quote:
Originally Posted by sarah c
Her first husband, Robert, loved her but they finished because she cheated on him (he obviously still has strong feelings for her). Rob loved her but in the end she put herself first by shopping him to the police (for which she ludicrously blames Carla). Amy loves her too, as did Blanche and Peter.
In fact, Tracy's actually luckier than most in that she had someone in her life who loved her so deeply she forgave anything - no matter how heinous. Deirdre knew that Tracy planned and committed a totally unprovoked murder for which she has no remorse and hasn't been punished, but she forgave her for it. Tracy's now lost that support so of course she's deeply unhappy, but she was incredibly fortunate to have it in the first place.
She's had plenty of love and is far less damaged than many soap characters who don't turn into cruel, remorseless, cold-blooded killers. Tracey has a personality disorder (probably anti-social, aka sociopathy/psychopathy) and such things can't be fixed in real life. If anything, the death of someone they "love" makes them even more bitter, cruel and determined to punish the world.
There are many damaged characters in fiction who I sympathise with, often despite myself. However, Tracey's long-term sadistic glee in hurting others (usually unprovoked) precludes me from feeling the slightest sympathy for her no matter how the writers try to redeem her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perdita
Tracy is released on bail and David Platt (Jack P. Shepherd) gives the police a statement, claiming to have witnessed the murder in return for sleeping with Tracy, which she does, desperate to avoid going to prison.
On 30 December 2010, after Tracy has complained to Deirdre, Ken and Peter about being deprived of sex, David Platt confronts her at home about her conduct towards his mother. After a bitter argument, Tracy seduces David. Shortly afterward, Tracy sleeps with Nick Tilsley (Ben Price); they are discovered by Leanne Battersby (Jane Danson).
Duplicate.
I can't remember that at all. I must have blotted it out of my memory... :sick:Quote:
Originally Posted by Snagglepus
I must have blotted that out too ... thanks Snagglepus for correcting my memory :)
You are very fortunate Dazzle!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazzle
Dupl
Thats 2 fortunate posters then Perdita.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perdita
Its branded on my memory!
Excuse me please- whilst I look for
anti-nausea tablet!
Dupl
Didn't Peter think to call/text to let anyone know that his train had been delayed and he would be there as soon as possible? Or did I miss something that he'd lost his phone etc?
They were all in church and would have had their phones switched off !