Eastenders - Current Episode Discussion - VIII

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dazzle

I think it was more complicated than that. Ben definitely factored into the decision to marry Sharon, but Phil seemed genuinely happy to have married Sharon. He appeared to have no regrets about it afterwards.



What I meant was, why would Shirley tell everyone she slept with Phil when he can take his revenge on her by revealing her secret about Mick? That would have kept me quiet if I was Shirley.



No, Phil definitely didn't enjoy saying those things to Shirley. I do believe that he cares for her in his own way. However, the fact that he did what Sharon told him (even though it made him so uncomfortable) means that he wants to stay with her (and not just for Ben) in my opinion. Ben is an adult. Just because Phil decided he didn't want to be with Shirley because of her hatred of Ben didn't automatically mean he had to marry Sharon - unless that's what he wanted.



I did consider doing this as I was loathe to miss the rest of the episode. I think even watching the scenes fast forwarding would have stressed me out though (because of the recent experience of someone close to me).



Definitely! I think Sharon and Shirley are both complete doormats for chasing Phil even after everything he's done to them. I think it's a great pity that two otherwise strong women are written this way.

I should have guessed you wouldn't be over Shirley and Phil, Mona. I'm sure it'll be revisited in the future - the writers won't be able to resist. :)



Definitely not so little!

---

I believe it was for bens sake. Espiciially more so now. Ben told him to go to sharon AFTER they were already married, if he was so in love with sharon, why did he not leave the table and try to sort things out with sharon? Instead he was staring at shirley. He wasnt overly happy IMO as soon as they got inside the vic and shirley was there, he wasnt happy. Shirley wound him up a lot.

If phil wanted to say those things, why did he ask sharon "what do you want me to say?" He clearly didnt want to say it, thats why again i add it was for bens sake. As he wouldnt have even gone after sharon if ben didnt tell him to.

In last nights ep, phils first concern was for shirley. Not sharon. People might think it was for their own concern not to shop shirley in, but he didnt need to ask if shirley was ok. He wasnt bothered about sharon being at the hospital.

Phil knows that if he got with shirley, theres a chance he could loose everything. There is a greater risk of phil being with shirley than there is with sharon. Sharon is safe and easy, he knows with sharon he gets a family life and could make it work. With shirley, she could leave within a day and everything could fall apart.

I also think something happened at xmas that we dont know about, and this is part of phils persistence to make things work with sharon,

I cant see phil telling mick the secret, which is another reason why i believe he loves shirley, if he didnt give a damn that would be his first thought

Id be fine if they just showed it clear if phil loved shirley or not. I know a lot of people are very confused and mixed thoughts about it. Its not as clear cut imo

I think that Phil was unhappy Shirley was at the wedding mainly because she's such a loose cannon that he was afraid of what she might say/do. With very good cause as it turned out! He also (hopefully) felt guilty about using and abusing her (yet again).

I agree that Phil's first concern being for Shirley was contradictory of his choosing Sharon. Just because I believed that he was genuinely happy to marry Sharon on their wedding day, doesn't mean that I think he doesn't care for Shirley or that he won't come to regret his marriage (perhaps even immediately). He may keep vacillating between the two of them as long as all three characters are on the square.

I don't think the writers are going to show whether Phil truly loves Shirley or not anytime soon. They love that people are debating this issue so hard! I've read that Letitia Dean has said that Phil and Sharon's marriage is

Spoiler:

for the long haul, so it doesn't sound like Phil will leave Sharon any time soon.

If he didnt love shirley, why couldnt he answer her outside the registry office when she asked if he would choose her?

Again, if he was so in love with sharon, why didnt he leave the table or react to sharons pleas? Ben begged him to go. He didnt seem interested

Jamie b said a few times both love triangles were similar, sharon is as jealous as abi was over jay/lola.

Even if they do stay together, i wont ever believe phils love for sharon is real. If she left him he probably wouldnt care

Why just cos phil is with sharon, it couldnt be shown he loves shirley? Just cos hes not with shirley dont mean he dont love her, it is possible to love two people. It would cause issues with phil and sharon, and also means phil isnt happy. I dont want to see him happy

Also, if that is true about him not being happy around shirley, then if he was worried shed say something, why did he not even try to stop her saying it when it was obvious she was going to?

If he didnt love shirley, why couldnt he answer her outside the registry office when she asked if he would choose her?

Again, if he was so in love with sharon, why didnt he leave the table or react to sharons pleas? Ben begged him to go. He didnt seem interested

phil is a selfish b*stard who wants both sharon and shirley, shirley will accept his bad side, while sharon will accept ben and be a trophy wife by his side, phil deserves neither

poor linda will she tell anyone please soon, come on dr mick he helps everyone else with their problems notice Linda's change and help her

phil is a selfish b*stard who wants both sharon and shirley, shirley will accept his bad side, while sharon will accept ben and be a trophy wife by his side, phil deserves neither

poor linda will she tell anyone please soon, come on dr mick he helps everyone else with their problems notice Linda's change and help her

Im so annoyed if thats supposed to be it,how can they use shirl as a plot device and just trash her off as nothing?? it doesnt make any sense, phil doesn't "Hate" shirley, that is clear. he was defending her since he woke up so we're supposed to believe he suddenly hates her:S he seemed to be defending her at first till he seen how annoyed sharon was

its not very fair dtc tweeted in june phil was torn between them and had feelings for shirl if this was all a lie. how does this make any sense "she's the victim, i hate her" how can you hate a victim?

Poor lost Linda is a shadow of her former self. :( It's very frustrating that her family and friends seem almost blind to her distress.

Dean... :angry:

I didn't understand it when Phil said "she's the victim, I hate her" either. Maybe he meant that she's playing the victim? I don't think that Phil actually hates Shirley though.

I don't think there's any doubt after the latest episode that Phil wants Sharon. He was practically begging her not to leave him. It's not all about Ben either, as Phil is way too selfish to put himself out like that, even for his son. He had the perfect opportunity to let Sharon walk away last night, but he didn't want to let her go. It's easy to forget their long, long history sometimes and I'm glad we were reminded of that last night. I found their scenes at the hospital compelling, if frustrating.

Shirley has gone. I think phil is genuinely hurt she left and didnt even bother to see how he was. Hes married now, what else is he supposed to do?
When sharon was telling phil about how shirley brings pain to people, you could tell he was hurt
Had he had his way at the reception, hed have been with shirley. Only now shes gone he has no option
He genuinely did want to see shirley, but mick told him pretty much she wasnt going to get in touch.
He wasnt begging sharon in tuesdays episode, only after she told the police about it not being shirley.

I dont believe phil and sharon are soulmates, ill always believe he chose shirley and sharons 2nd best. He didnt even tell sharon he chose her.

Phil would do literally anything for ben, hes a very family man, very loyal. Hes messed up his r/ship with shirley when he did want to be with her IMO. If ben came to hate sharon, he'd do the same for him over her. Phil did kick sharon out over lexi, so if sharon puts a foot wrong with anyone he'd do the same no question.

Phil will probably be happy for a week or so, shirleys out of sight and mind. She returns in november :)(hope thats ok for me to post that in here)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monalisa62003

Phil would do literally anything for ben, hes a very family man, very loyal

---

Sorry, but this doesn't ring true for me at all, so I had a quick look on Wikipedia for a reminder of some examples of Phil being "loyal" to his family (including partners):

"...having an affair with Sharon Watts (Letitia Dean) who was married to Grant"

"Kathy and Phil eventually sort out their differences and marry and they have a son, Ben (Matthew Silver), making Phil feel neglected and depressed so he turns to alcohol and develops an addiction. This makes him abusive and neglectful towards Kathy and Ben..."

"He and Kathy reconcile when he attends counselling until he begins an affair with fellow alcoholic Lorna Cartwright"

"...Phil pulls out a gun and shoots at the dashboard, causing Grant to crash into the River Thames"

"Phil is unsupportive when his girlfriend, Lisa, has a miscarriage and he starts domestically abusing her..."

"Peggy locks him inside her home so he cannot have access to drugs, but, suffering withdrawal symptoms, he escapes and confronts Peggy, setting the pub on fire..."

"Shirley supports Phil through recovery. They steal a large amount of money from Phil's cousin, Roxy Mitchell..."

"Phil reacts badly when he discovers Ben is gay, and makes it clear that he prefers Billy's foster son, Jay Brown."

No doubt there's plenty more examples of Phil's callousness to his family. He talks the talk about family but always puts himself first when push comes to shove, which is why I don't believe for a moment that Phil would be with Sharon solely for Ben's sake.

Fun reading at 3.00 am for an insomniac!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monalisa62003

Phil will probably be happy for a week or so, shirleys out of sight and mind

---

I agree with you there at least. :)

Did you mot see the scene wben ben told phil to ,arry sharon? Or when ben told him to go to sharon at the table?

Its not just for bens sake, phil wants a family, he knows if he sticks with sharon he get s a family life. Im sorry i dont buy hes madly in love with sharon when ben told him to go to her and he keeps asking questions about shirley

I meant phil is loyal to his kids. He covered up heathers murder for ben and kicked sharon out when she put lexi in danger. Maybe in the old days he done mistakes but just cos you make mistakes doesnt mean your not a loyal father and wants to do whats right by his kids

Did you not see the scene wben ben told phil to marry sharon? Or when ben told him to go to sharon at the table?

Its not just for bens sake, phil wants a family, he knows if he sticks with sharon he get s a family life. Im sorry i dont buy hes madly in love with sharon when ben told him to go to her and he keeps asking questions about shirley

I meant phil is loyal to his kids. He covered up heathers murder for ben and kicked sharon out when she put lexi in danger. Maybe in the old days he done mistakes but just cos you make mistakes doesnt mean your not a loyal father and wants to do whats right by his kids

People in the old days said phil was only with shirley for bens sake. But i never believed that. Phil does love sharon but IMO hes not in love with her and his heart was never in it. He'll play along to keep a woman he gets a trophy wife and gets sex, shirleys gone and he doesnt know where she is. How do we know hes fully over her when he hasnt seen her? Shes out of sight

Phil was even going go marry stella for bens sake. He never loved stella but was prepared to marry her.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monalisa62003

I meant phil is loyal to his kids. He covered up heathers murder for ben and kicked sharon out when she put lexi in danger. Maybe in the old days he done mistakes but just cos you make mistakes doesnt mean your not a loyal father and wants to do whats right by his kids

---

Phil has been downright abusive to Ben many times - those were not just "mistakes" and nothing can make up for them. He puts his family first only when it suits him. He's an irredeemable bully.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monalisa62003

Phil was even going go marry stella for bens sake. He never loved stella but was prepared to marry her.

---

I'll refer you back to my original point that in my opinion Phil looked genuinely happy to have married Sharon on his wedding day. And yes, he did beg her not to leave him last night. To me, those are not signs of someone who married out of duty.

Yes, there have been lots of contradictory things said, and Phil has been very torn between Sharon and Shirley, but it seems to me he's made up his mind and is happy about it (for the time being at least).

I'm sure you'll get your wish and we'll see more of Phil and Shirley in the future, Mona. :)

Anyway, this debate is going around in circles so I won't say any more about it for now.

He didnt even tell sharon he chose her, he said he married her, not that he chose her. i believe he chose shirley and sharons 2nd best. I still maintain he is upset shirley has gone and if he was so in love with sharon as he makes out, he should hsve left the table or reacted to sharon and not just cos ben told him to. thats the impression i got, that if ben didnt tell him to go,he wouldnt have gone after sharon. if they wanted us to believe hes in love with sharon,then having ben beg him to go isnt the way to go about it

Shirley has gone. Thats why he begged her not to go. He has noone else. Again why did he not react to sharon at the table?? Im still asking this cos i want a proper reason to go with the logic he seems to be so in love with her, but barely reacted and instead was staring at shirley. Baffles me

If he didnt beg sharon back, ben would have given him hell. It was ben who told him to beg sharon back and make it work.they shouldnt have included those scenes if they didnt want us to have that impression, stupid scenes if you ask me if thats not the way its supposed to come across. Phil was not begging sharon in tuesdays episode, he was wanting to see shirley.

If you remember in 2012, ben told phil to dump shirley and then when ben messed things up, phil pretty much said he brought shirley back for him, (though he tried to get her back over the derek thing) theres plenty of evidence to support phil marrying sharon for bens sake.

IMO for me, he was more natural happy with shirley when she proposed in 2012. The signs of him being happy with sharon werent natural

One thing that genuinely puzzles me, phil said in last nights ep he already told sharon he slept with shirley cos he wanted to hurt her, so he must have been genuine in wanting to see shirley. Why would he still be wanting to hurt sharon after he told her that was the reason?

i like this sullen quite scared linda poor thing she needs to speak up

I'm glad Linda's family are starting to notice something serious is the matter with her, but why didn't Nancy ask her why she was crying?

Why did Charlie stir things up between Ian and Max?

What did Max have to gain by dobbing in Summerhayes? Was it to free her from the investigation so they can carry on seeing each other? If so, that's unforgivable! Summerhayes will be fuming when she finds out - as she undoubtedly will. Doesn't Max realise that all calls to the police are recorded?

It's good to see Ian back. I've missed him even though I don't like him much as a character. I also loved seeing DI Keeble. I just wish we saw more of her.

Peter must be the chief suspect since it seems the detective is following him (he could be following Lauren but I think it's more likely to be Peter). I wonder what the police know that we don't?

Likewise, I too would love to know what is DI Keeble's angle on the murder. Too early yet in the plot I suppose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dazzle

I'm glad Linda's family are starting to notice something serious is the matter with her, but why didn't Nancy ask her why she was crying?

Why did Charlie stir things up between Ian and Max? Charlie don't like Max

What did Max have to gain by dobbing in Summerhayes? Was it to free her from the investigation so they can carry on seeing each other? If so, that's unforgivable! Summerhayes will be fuming when she finds out - as she undoubtedly will. Doesn't Max realise that all calls to the police are recorded? So she will off the case and he can have a "relationship" with her

It's good to see Ian back. I've missed him even though I don't like him much as a character. I also loved seeing DI Keeble. I just wish we saw more of her.

Peter must be the chief suspect since it seems the detective is following him (he could be following Lauren but I think it's more likely to be Peter). I wonder what the police know that we don't?

---

How can the copper be undercover around the square as Ian and the family will know him as he did visit them with Emma

He must think Lauren and Peter are suspects as he is only following them

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tammyy2j

How can the copper be undercover around the square as Ian and the family will know him as he did visit them with Emma

He must think Lauren and Peter are suspects as he is only following them

---

Good point lol. I guess he's trying to stay inconspicuous but it would be much more realistic to have a stranger following Peter.

Why was Stan not bothered about what shirley done / where she is? he went away and hasnt mentioned her

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monalisa62003

Why was Stan not bothered about what shirley done / where she is? he went away and hasnt mentioned her

---

mick is the apple of his eye his favourite

Even if he didnt show he loved shirley, when he arrived he always mocked her for being bad and the same as him/her mother etc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monalisa62003

Why was Stan not bothered about what shirley done / where she is? he went away and hasnt mentioned her

---

I'm sure he had some reaction to the shooting, but he's not one to run around like a headless chicken. He wasn't in last week's scenes (that I remember) so were weren't shown his initial reaction.

I usually like Nancy but she's being incredibly insensitive to her mum at the moment. At least they all know that something's wrong now.

I was wondering last night if Emma's boss will want to use her closeness to Max to aid the investigation. She could tell everyone she's been fired but still be working for them secretly. It would be a good opportunity to get closer to all the main players in Lucy's death. No doubt I'm way off the mark, but stranger things have happened in soaps! :D

is emma engaged to the other cop the stalker fella?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lizann

is emma engaged to the other cop the stalker fella?

---

That's what I think. Nice complication if it's true.

It looks like my theory about Summerhayes getting closer to Max to aide the investigation was erroneous. :o Oh well, I guess it would have been a tad predictable.

I'm glad Linda's mother's here to help her out. She looks like she could be an interesting character. I felt sorry for Mick last night. He's very hurt at Linda's continued rejection.

if linda was 16 when she had nancy what age had she lee at

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lizann

is emma engaged to the other cop the stalker fella?

---

I don't like or care for Emma and cant see how Max is so in love with her like he was with Stacey and Tanya

Or with Kirsty, Vanessa, Gemma, Lucy.....the list is endless for Max.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by parkerman

Or with Kirsty, Vanessa, Gemma, Lucy.....the list is endless for Max.

---

I don't think he was in love with them

linda's ma seems a good character a good crack reminds me of pat butcher

babe and the undertaker chap is their an affair on the cards

tamwar likes nancy

linda's ma seems a good character a good crack reminds me of pat butcher

babe and the undertaker chap is their an affair on the cards

tamwar likes nancy

I like Linda's mum. She's very funny and has great chemistry with all the Carters. I was impressed that she clocked so quickly that something is severely off between Linda and Dean. Has she guessed the severity of the problem, I wonder? I'll be annoyed if she, like Sharon, assumes that Linda has led him on in some way. :angry:

Did anyone else notice that Dean really didn't like Johnny removing his hat? What's that about?

That copper, Cameron, is creepy. I liked a feistier Emma but unfortunately it didn't last long. We didn't see the interview between her and her boss so, as she's still running after Max, I'm again wondering if there isn't some sort of set up going on so she can gather more info for the investigation. :hmm:

Nancy's musical bingo was lame for a 21st birthday party to say the least!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dazzle

I like Linda's mum. She's very funny and has great chemistry with all the Carters. I was impressed that she clocked so quickly that something is severely off between Linda and Dean. Has she guessed the severity of the problem, I wonder? I'll be annoyed if she, like Sharon, assumes that Linda has led him on in some way. :angry:

Did anyone else notice that Dean really didn't like Johnny removing his hat? What's that about?

That copper, Cameron, is creepy. I liked a feistier Emma but unfortunately it didn't last long. We didn't see the interview between her and her boss so, as she's still running after Max, I'm again wondering if there isn't some sort of set up going on so she can gather more info for the investigation. :hmm:

Nancy's musical bingo was lame for a 21st birthday party to say the least!

---

Lindas' mom , right on the case, hope she makes progress with linda. Yes, Dean did seem really annoyed. For me Dean is a control freak with females and seems to view them with contempt and ridicule .whilst appearing to be a womaniser.
Emma didn't take long to rush back to Max, as you say Dazzle ,could be a set up. Doesn't look she's sorting Charlie out either?

Was hoping Linda's mom Elaine would have stayed a bit longer. Why was the "undercover " CID guy bothering to follow Lauren to the chippie and back home again the chip shop's not far from the house, was he meant to get discovered to put the wind up Peter and Lauren?

is linda's ma gone for good now she should have stayed a bit longer to help linda and get to the truth

loved her line to dean in the jacks :p

is linda's ma gone for good now she should have stayed a bit longer to help linda and get to the truth

loved her line to dean in the jacks :p

Linda's mum will be back, it has been confirmed :)

I'm really disappointed that Elaine assumed Linda having an affair with Dean. Linda looked horrified to see him not guilty. Still, at least that wasn't dragged out. I enjoyed Elaine threatening Dean's manhood!

I like Ronnie and Charlie together - they're rather sweet (although I haven't forgotten that Charlie may not be as nice as he comes across - remember he stole money from an old man in the care home?). I also like the foursome of Ronnie, Roxy, Charlie and Aleks. They should provide us with some entertaining drama. I can't wait for Ronnie to find out that Aleks is deceiving Roxy (and his poor wife and child)!

Loved Dot's line about banning smoking in her own home. :D

What is Emma up to? What is Cameron up to? Whatever it is, Emma isn't happy with him following Lauren and Peter.

does charlie still pretend to go off to work as a copper?

i cant believe ronnie just blurted out that she killed a man

does charlie still pretend to go off to work as a copper?

i cant believe ronnie just blurted out that she killed a man