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Debbie wanted any excuse to get rid of Pete and him confessing about Ross was her opportunity instead she should have been honest and not married PeteQuote:
Originally Posted by LauBuch
Ross isn't someone I see in a long term relationship with kids, he will get bored
Ross, Pete and Andy do not have any clear future in Emmerdale right now. Pete and Andy could end up in jail, as could Ross, but Ross seems to be the outsider again here. Ross presently does not seem to have any paid job, other than maybe sick pay from Debbie's garage business, and is presently living rent-free(?) at Debbie's house at Mulberry Cottage. But what happens to Ross when Debbie leaves Emmerdale, as we know she is going to do around December 2015? Ross seems to have no friends in Emmerdale right now and this is before the news (so future spoilers say) that other viillagers find out that Andy was involved in Robert's shooting and maybe that Ross was the actual shooter? Let's face it, Emmerdale is such a close cul-de-sac community that nothing usually remains secret for very long and so, on this basis, Ross must "face-the-music" for his actions in due course, hopefully sooner rather than later!
I really do see a disastrous future for "present" Ross in Emmerdale village.
1) Ross is now a complete outsider. He has no friends, stable job or income or real future there.
2) His personality is completely unsuitable to be a "family man". Debbie's kids hate him for a start and Ross is so totally rootless and immature for now.
3) What Ross really seems to want is for Debbie to be his "gangster's moll" without any responsibilities but Debbie is no longer of such a young age to be this, now has kids to care for and is far more emotionally mature than Ross, so Debbie and Ross are, I reckon, completely mis-matched at this time of their lives.
4) I think that Ross's latest actions (shooting Robert and trying twice to murder Pete over about the last two months) are going to soon catch up with him in the very near future. Spoiler photos show that Cain gets "up close and personal" soon, either before or after Debbie leaves Emmerdale (in December 2015). Surely Debbie's close family are going to want revenge then on anyone deemed to have caused Debbie to leave? I really do think that there is shortly going to be an uprising of alpha-male types for a village posse in Emmerdale (maybe made up of Cain/Andy/Aaron/Paddy/David/others) to "sort" Ross out, once and for all. Ironically, maybe Pete stays out of this though as the forgiving and good guy brother? Maybe this just means that Ross "reforms" and stays in Emmerdale, or that he leaves Emmerdale to live somewhere else, or that he ends up in Emmerdale graveyard?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS5UQFVWUAAMntV.jpg
© ITV
Cain gets up close and personal with Ross real soon
Yesterday's Monday Emmerdale episode showed Ross being left alone to "hold the baby" (Moses) after Pete leaves the village for a while. (Question: Has Charity told the truth that Ross is the father of Moses?) This baby-sittiing role is not really the life that Ross wants, I reckon, and that reality will set in very soon for him that this is all Debbie has to offer for him in Emmerdale long-term. In fact, yesterday's episode for him was just Emmerdullsville ZZZzzz... But just what else does Ross expect from Debbie right now? Ross is going to want again, I have no doubts about that. As I wrote above, Debbie has moved on emotionally and Ross has simply fallen behind and wants a nostalgic energetic fast life which is long gone and was available once when Debbie was a "wild child". Tonight's Tuesday Emmerdale episode will show how Ross bursts into the pub, hears Nikhil telling off guilty Debbie for her being involved with Gennie's death, and how Ross punches Nikhil on impulse because Ross completely does not know what he is doing or what part Debbie played in bringing about Gennie's death. David steps in to pull Ross off Nikhil but now Nikhil is yet another Emmerdaler that Ross doesn't relate to.
I suspect that this pub scene between Ross and Nikhil and the spread of the "Andy setting Robert up to be shot" storyline amongst the villagers will lead to the formation of an eventual alpha-male Emmerdale village posse (made up of villagers such as Cain/Andy/Aaron/Adam/Pete/David/others) which will change Ross's life forever.
For now, Ross is a complete outsider in Emmerdale. His good looks no longer count for anything, and his past reactions and history since he returned to Emmerdale on Tuesday, 25th September after previously "dying" outside Hotten Hospital on 6th September have been totally OTT, done him no favours, been totally extreme and unnecessary and only been very damaging for his future in Emmerdale.
The change.org opinion poll about whether Ross should be returned to Emmerdale after "dying" raised less than 10,000 votes (actual vote count=9,147). However, this opinion poll was very seriously flawed:
1) One vote was allowed for each registered e-mail address, so this meant that the vote was open to abuse from any one person who used more than one personal email address;
2) There wasn't a "No" vote option. The opinion poll question was "Bring Back Ross Barton *Emmerdale*", so anyone who bothered to vote only had one choice, = "Yes"!
In the end, the total poll voter count was less than 10,000. As each Emmerdale episode is watched by about 5 million viewers (barb.co.uk, October 2015) then the poll was answered by up to 0.2% of single-voting Emmerdale viewers and the remaining 99.8%+ of Emmerdale viewers didn't take part. Maybe the poll wasn't well publicised? Maybe some viewers already knew that Michael Parr was still filming at Emmerdale studios when Ross was supposed to be dead, so this is why these viewers didn't bother voting as it was obvious that Ross wasn't dead? Maybe most viewers knew that it was a foregone conclusion either way, as the show is filmed about 6-8 weeks before being aired on TV and that any poll was pointless because the studio money was already spent by then and that storyline and filming of future episodes was already set in stone by the time that the poll was due to close? Or maybe most viewers didn't care about Ross and maybe wanted Ross dead and gone anyway? We will maybe never know clearly what the general Emmerdale viewing public thought at the time but one thing seems for sure and that is that Ross has been highly dislikeable since he returned to Emmerdale on Tuesday, 25th September, and that his good looks and appearance may not be enough to keep him in any future popularity competition?
We must all remember that Ross left us all in August 2015 under very different circumstances to how we see him now and when he won his recent Inside Soap awards in September 2015 for his previous Emmerdale acting work before the latest "darkest hours" for Ross on Emmerdale. Since Tuesday, 25th September, Ross has returned on TV to Emmerdale and been the root cause of the following storylines:
- Robert recovering in hospital from attempted murder by Ross and with Aaron in jail being blamed for it;
- Pete having survived two attempted murder scenes by Ross;
- Pete at the police station confessing to 'attempted murder' on Ross for his fight and apparent accident with Ross at the hospital;
- Andy and Robert about to be involved in a car crash soon because Robert finds out that Andy set up Robert's shooting (which Ross suggested to Andy as in 'Strangers on a Train');
- etc.
Is there any Emmerdale future for Ross right now? I am sure that the Emmerdale storyliners will tell us their answer to this question in a while real soon.
I do not see any future for the "present" Ross, so I reckon that either he changes soon to be a better guy or he is made to leave Emmerdale by the other villagers or through personal circumstances soon, one way or another.
Sources:
Bring Back Michael Parr AKA "Ross Barton" to Emmerdale at:
https://www.change.org/p/emmerdale-b...rton-emmerdale
Emmerdale's Michael Parr on shock return: 'Ross Barton will want revenge' at:
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/soaps/s1...t-revenge.html
Emmerdale and Michael Parr storm the Inside Soap Awards at:
http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/emme...e-soap-awards/
He is back at the garage so he will have a job. Nothing has probably changed since before he went away. They will probably have to juggle with Moses and will probably do different shifts. Not sure how you know he is living rent free. That's an assumption but just the way it's an assumption that he is paying rent. we haven't been told either way
Ross has always been an outsider so that hasn't changed.
His personality isn't suited but that doesn't mean he can't try. which he is doing. Just now
That picture with Cain wasn't an actual spoiler or anything. Not saying it isn't a clue but it wasn't an actual what's coming up. It looks like a picture from when he attacked him on the wedding day
There is no evidence that it is going to catch up with him. usually it does but you are forgetting that he said himself that he thought his days were numbered but Kate gave him a foresight. Which suggests that he will get away with it. Until he decides to leave or when they decide Ross time is up. Again not everyone gets what is coming to them anyway.
Who knows if she told the truth but what would she gain from lying. Also if he isn't that will be better for Ross so I wouldn't see the point. I think the who shot Robert thing will be swept under carpet and be forgotten. Lol at the alpha male Posse. Why would they team up. Trust me they all have a reason to run to Ross when they need something doing so I don't see that happening at all. They all have their own problems/issues and secrets
Not sure why the petition means anything now. It got the publicity for the show and that was the point. doesn't matter how many people want him to stay or not it's all about the PR for emmerdale. More people talk about Ross that most of the other characters
He is still filming. In fact him and Danny Miller were filming something so he hasn't left yet. Which means that we have a few more weeks of him. Then we will see what happens. I don't think he's going anywhere yet and wont leave with Debbie. we don't know how she is leaving yet so. doesn't have to be Ross that is the reason. I know it's highly unlikely but something else could happen. There is time to change. He has a quiet couple of weeks coming up and by then people will have forgot most what went on. Like I said previously stories change constantly so there is no reason he wont
Michael Parr was away in America for 3 weeks not so long ago, as the post above said Ross has a quiet couple of weeks coming up, it looks like he'll only be getting a few background scenes. Rather than having Ross take a temporary exit for Mike's holiday, it looks like they'll just have him in the background, Mike probably filmed about 5 small scenes before he left that will air in the coming weeks. Mike has since returned from his holiday and it seems he is back working.
Thanks for info re petition!.Telly Watcher.
Ive always wondered what % of viewers
vote in polls held by tv mags etc for
Best Soap / Best actor / actress etc.
Ive never voted because you can only
vote for one of pre- seclected few!-
It might be rubbish - but there seems to
be a preconception that a higher % of
EE fans vote than say Corrie ones.
I did try to.find the info a couple of
times -but wasnt successful!
So a bit of mystery !!
Yes, Ross was shown with Debbie at the garage in the latest episode (Tuesday 3rd), delivering a blue Maserti car to a customer, so we know that he is now back in paid work again from then. Ross did go away for 3 weeks after Robert got shot on September 25th, when he was living in the Barton's house. Since returning from Magaluf, he has moved in with Debbie after she asked him to on Oct 29th. As Debbie is his employer and she asked him to move in, I thought it a reasonable assumption that she wouldn't necessarily ask him to pay rent there for now as she is paying him to work for her and making his stay rent-free would be another incentive for him to move in. My assumption, I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalesfan
Yes, you were right about the Cain photograph. This was shown on the Emmerdale Twitter website on November 1st and the text suggested more of this is going to come from Cain to Ross in upcoming scenes. I think any new photo will be embargoed at present but the photo shown on the @emmerdale twitter site is for illustrative purposes for now. The photo itself isn't from the new scenes, as you suggested. I've seen this shown in the Summer Fate Week episode shown 4th August when Cain offers Ross the fake passport but then Cain kidnaps Ross instead and leaves him tied up in the back of his van at the edge of the quarry before Cain gets back to the wedding ceremony.
I think the village posse is a real possibility, Cain is much more of a leader, older, more experienced in life and more of a "hardman" than Ross, and Cain definitely has an axe to grind with Ross and motive of getting Ross out of the way if it means that Debbie stays around and is happy and her kids are safe. Cain kidnapped Ross in August just before Pete and Debbie's wedding as he knew Ross would try to wreck it. Unfortunately, the kidnapping came too late as Ross had already sabotaged the reception disco music to play out his mobile phone recording of Debbie reminding Ross of the places where they'd had sex together previously.
As you say, there are photos around now of Aaron, Robert and Ross being filmed during scenes which will be shown around December, so all three of these characters are still working for Emmerdale right now and will be on TV during December.
Source:
Twitter: @emmerdale
https://mobile.twitter.com/emmerdale
It looks like Debbie leaves around the time of Charity's return. Anyone else get the feeling Charity and Ross will do something "naughty"? The thought of it makes me feel sick.
what was up with Debbie's attitude about Ross in Friday's episode!
Not happy about that!
what was up with Debbie's attitude about Ross in Friday's episode!
Not happy about that!
He got involved in her business where it was not wanted nor neededQuote:
Originally Posted by rossfan
Also.perhaps the beginning of splittingQuote:
Originally Posted by Perdita
them for actress's maternity leave!?
Michael Parr suggested Ross will leave the village with DebbieQuote:
Originally Posted by maidmarian
Michael Parr suggested Ross will leave the village with Debbie when Charley Webb exits. They'll be filming that round about now, if not perhaps already have done, guess it depends if Debbie leaves the village before or after Christmas/New Year timeQuote:
Originally Posted by maidmarian
I don't get all the hate for Ross as people still love Robert despite his crimes. Here's a few things people seem to have forgot about: 1. He killed Katie (accidentally or not he still covered it up and lied to everyone to save himself) 2. He hired a hitman to kill his "lovers" mother just to hide the fact he's gay. 3. He is still partly to blame for the death of Max King. 4. Had an affair with his brothers girl (Not a crime but isn't that also why people hate Ross? Because he cheated with Debbie? 5. Small crimes adding upnsuch as duping Lawrence into paying off Connor and the fake robbery. 6. Oh yeah I nearly forgot that he shot Paddy, held Aaron at gunpoint and nearly buried paddy alive.
I think he was probably teasing us.Quote:
Originally Posted by kennedyfan86
I saw nothing really between Debbie and Ross in Friday's episode.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossfan
Numpty Andy showed up at Debbie's house to talk to Ross about how Andy didn't want Aaron to be "sent down" for Robert's shooting.
Debbie came down the stairs. Numpty Andy tried to cover him being in the house and told her how they needed to talk about Christmas. Debbie thought he was wierd, maybe drunk. Then Andy left.
Debbie asked Ross "What did he really want?". Ross just shrugged his shoulders.
Andy just gets dafter and dumber. Looks like both Ross and Andy are heading for Bremmerdalemoor maximum security hospital for being criminally and hopelessly numpty.
Emmerdale Video:
Emmerdale 6th November 2015, 22m 20s
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3c...015_shortfilms
Yea she seemed annoyed. Probably more to do with Emma though and taking it out on Ross. The only thing he done wrong was punch Nikhill. Which was wrong but he was defending her and didn't know what was going on. To him it just looked like someone having a go. He was wrong but that's what Ross does. Thinks about it after he's done it. Friday was a bit odd. How Did Debbie know Ross was flat out when he was staying with his family and she was at home?Quote:
Originally Posted by rossfan
Yes the double standards are annoying but that's what happens. Funny thing is none of them are innocent. Ross, Aaron, Robert. They are all pretty similar and have all done bad things. People have a go at Ross for trying to kill Pete. Rightly so but then still have a go when he is trying to make peace. Same with him and Debbie. They don't like the going round in circles and when they finally get their act together it's still wrong :D They don't like Aaron being in prison which is understanding but it isn't all down to Ross. He was on a suspended sentence and had a gun in his possession. It isn't just about being a suspect for who shot RobertQuote:
Originally Posted by alcapo11
Yes I think soQuote:
Originally Posted by JessicaMad
did ross stay at his house to keep an eye on emma but pub was still trashed which all think is emmaQuote:
Originally Posted by rossfan
Yesterday, on twitter Charley Webb wrote "Reading my last scenes. Emotional".
To which Michael Parr, I assume jokingly replied "hurry up and do one. X".
From that I'm taking it that Michael is staying and that Ross won't be going with Debbie.
Yesterday, on twitter Charley Webb wrote "Reading my last scenes. Emotional".
To which Michael Parr, I assume jokingly replied "hurry up and do one. X".
From that I'm taking it that Michael is staying and that Ross won't be going with Debbie.
I really hope you get the Christmas you want but I think you might be joining up random dots to make a picture you want to see here.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossfan
Sorry, but Mike Parr is not a trusted source for reliable Emmerdale spoilers. In fact, history shows that he has before said the opposite of what he means and what is really going to happen in the future.
I'd have more confidence believing that there's life on Mars than believing anything Mike Parr says. Let's face it, this is the actor who plays Ross Barton. I rest my case.
i don't see how it's joining up random dots? There is nothing wrong with hoping and if the above poster believes that to be true what he wrote then that's up to them. Most reading his Twitter would think the same. I agree that he is a bit if a wind up and probably take everything with a pinch of salt but why would he talk about the new producer coming in If he wasn't going to be there? I don't think he will be going with her and if he does it won't before long
In that case you're just proving their point further. About a month ago Mike had an interview saying Ross may leave with Debbie. So yes, I'll take that with a pinch of salt and I don't think he is leaving yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Telly Watcher
In that case you're just proving their point further. About a month ago Mike had an interview saying Ross may leave with Debbie. So yes, I'll take that with a pinch of salt and I don't think he is leaving yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Telly Watcher
Kate Oates said Mike's a cheeky chap, he made his own video for fans after Ross's "death", he likes to take the viewers for a ride when he completely embraces what he's given.Quote:
Originally Posted by Telly Watcher
Maybe Ross stays for Moses on Debbie's say so when Charity gets back
What the hell. Why so rude ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Telly Watcher
As some one said Mike Parr has said a lot lately including leaving with Charley. All I did was report what he did yesterday and what I belive it could mean.
Sorry if I offended you by posting that. :wall:
Surely he has to go with her, otherwise what was the point of this love triangle if Debbie doesn't end up with either Ross or Pete? I think people assume that if he leaves with Debbie that he will be leaving for good but that may not be the case. Since he is dividing opinion and has had alot of storylines a year out might be good for the character.Quote:
Originally Posted by kennedyfan86
Surely he has to go with her, otherwise what was the point of this love triangle if Debbie doesn't end up with either Ross or Pete? I think people assume that if he leaves with Debbie that he will be leaving for good but that may not be the case. Since he is dividing opinion and has had alot of storylines a year out might be good for the character.Quote:
Originally Posted by kennedyfan86
but then again he could stay to look after Moses and the garage for Debbie?Quote:
Originally Posted by alcapo11
Cain seems busy elsewhere at the moment, so someone Debbie trusts needs to hold the fort?
just a thought
I was very interested to read posts here made today about the future of Ross and Debbie on Emmerdale.
I think that Mike Parr's tweet (on 08/11/15) should really not be taken out of context. I do not think that this is a tweet particularly about Emmerdale, as he seems to have started to learn not to do this since his "return from the dead" in the October 22nd episode of Emmerdale. His latest personal tweet to Charley Webb about "hurry up and do one. X" is not, in any way, clear in meaning and seems to me in any case to say totally the reverse of what he really wants (i.e. he wants Charley Webb to stay with him in the workplace, or that he really means "hurry up and do one, and I will be joining you too as I have another job contract lined up").
What I meant when I wrote about "joining up random dots to make a picture you want to see here" was that it is very easy to want something to happen when you start to study something which you don't know the true outcome of. This is what real research and new study is all about. There may not be the outcome you really want waiting for you at the end because no-one has ever studied or done this before. True research and original study means collecting all of the evidence and information, rejecting all of the false leads, accepting all of the valid information, making sure everything fits the latest theory, not "adjusting" or ignoring obviously true information, and most importantly, being ready to ditch any theory when some clearly valid information doesn't fit. Eventually, following these ideals, you should get to the correct explanation for anything under study.
I posted here on soapboards previously about how Mike Parr's tweets could be seen as unclear and how they could be interpreted differently by addition of just some extra words from a sceptical and critical viewer.
See my soapboards post at: http://www.soapboards.co.uk/forums/s...721#post828721
We all know how Mike Parr mislead his fans and the general public (even outright lied to everyone) in August 2015 about how his Emmerdale character Ross Barton had "died". There really was never any need for this and the actor should really have known better at his age and experience and stayed silent as part of his professional and contractual duties to Emmerdale and the general acting profession until his character of Ross Barton returned to Emmerdale with a planned script on TV screens on 25th August. We will maybe never know for sure if any of Mike Parr's/Ross Barton's fans ever killed themselves over Mike Parr's misleading/lying behaviour during the time that Ross Barton was supposed to be "dead", but I for one am now definitely an ex-fan of Ross Barton and of the actor, who I consider to be someone who committed the worst possible, unforgiveable and unthinkable actor crime ever against his fans and the general public in my lifelong experience of watching films and TV programmes by publicly misleading/lying that his soap character was falsely dead. I do not ever see me changing my mind on this issue.
I, for one, would be delighted to have the most terrific Christmas present of Ross Barton disappearing from our TV screens on Emmerdale forever.
For now, my impression is that Ross and Debbie have already max-ed out as major Emmerdale characters and are really both very boring now and well overdue for a break from Emmerdale. I reckon that we all really need to move on from this burnt-out stuff and these two yesterday boring characters and that the really interesting storylines to be shown soon on Emmerdale are going to be about Chas, Aaron and Gordon and that we should all switch our main attention to them.
Check out my latest post about Chas, Aaron and Gordon where the really interesting and exciting action is going to be soon at:
http://www.soapboards.co.uk/forums/s...128#post835128
But some people still like those characters. Just because they are not at their best at the minute doesn't mean should be axed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Telly Watcher
Great post Telly Watcher :)
The Chas, Aaron and Gordon storyline is really intriguing me and I'm looking forward to it, I am so ready for a break from all the Ross/Debbie drama, :D
I dislike the constant criminal element that Ross brings I don't necessarily want Ross axed, I know he's popular with many I've gone off him in recent months myself and I would like someone else to be at the fore front of things in the next few weeks & months. I would like Ross to face some sort of comeuppance though for shooting Robert not too mention all the other stuff he's done and he gets away with far too much sick & criminal acts.
I'm not sure Ross will leave with Debbie as I don't see him being written out for months like she will be... only a few weeks at the most, I don't see her leaving him holding the baby either but could imagine Emma trying to get custody or something like that causing a Dingle v Barton feud maybe :searchme:
I thought it more likely the truth about Ross shooting comes out within their families at least and she leaves in horror but who knows at this point. :hmm:
andy will out ross involvement in robert shooting to debbie and robert
If Ross was to get sent down or get some sort of punishment then wouldnt that just be double standards as Robert will getting away with a murder, shooting someone and nearly burying someone alive. Also I disagree that Ross has been at the forefront of most storylines. Aaron and Robert have had there affair, they have covered up Katie's murder which has led to the who shot Robert storyline.Quote:
Originally Posted by binky321
If Ross gets sent down or killed off because of it then itsjust double standards as Robert and Andy have both gotten away with murders in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by lizann
If Ross gets sent down or killed off because of it then itsjust double standards as Robert and Andy have both gotten away with murders in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by lizann
This is what I meant in previous posts. Ross should get sent down because he has done wrong but It's ok For Aaron and especially Robert to stick around for what they have done. I get fans have their own opinions and favourites but it isn't one rule for one and one rule for another. Whether you like them or not. If you think that about Ross then you should feel the same way about Robert. (and others)
Ross has been involved in a lot of stories but so has Robert and Aaron and Debbie and now Chas looks to have a big few months. With the who shot Robert, the "stalker" and now her ex turning up. Which means Aaron will be heavily involved. It all evens out.
Just because you are sick of a character doesn't mean everyone feels the same way. And Ross and Debbie can't be boring if everyone is constantly talking about them. When they are quiet they are boring when they have big stories they have too much screen time. They can't win. One thing you can't call them, especially Ross is boring. The Chas, Aaron, Gordon stuff may be interesting but you don't know that yet. We don't know what the story involves yet. I wonder if you will be so harsh on them if they dominate for months down the line
we don't know how Debbie will Leave. Maybe she disappears to look after a sick relative or has some "business". There could be a number of reasons she leaves. And like someone said maybe Ross stays behind to look after the business. Maybe unlikely but you never know
Exactly, the actor also won Best actor, Best bad boy and best affair with Debbie so he can't be doing that bad. He is a character that will be missed by the people who want him to go when he eventually does. I think Ross will be a character that will come and go for years like Cain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalesfan
Exactly, the actor also won Best actor, Best bad boy and best affair with Debbie so he can't be doing that bad. He is a character that will be missed by the people who want him to go when he eventually does. I think Ross will be a character that will come and go for years like Cain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalesfan
Agree in part, I don't think he needs to get sent down to have his comeuppance lets face it that never happens but he should suffer in some way for his actions whether it be losing Debbie or being ostracised for his actions or some other way to do 3 attempted murders is too much to get away with in my opinion anyway.
But to be fair with Robert and Andy - Robert didn't intentionally kill Katie yes he acted like a crazed maniac and was in panic mode but it was not premeditated he didn't know she would be there he didn't know the floor would collapse which is what killed her ultimately Robert roped Aaron into covering up the truth when they shouldn't have yes and Max King's death was a result of being caught in the middle of a road rage incident due to the brothers feud that wasn't murder either both cases are manslaughter at best. Ross setting out to kill people in a premeditated way even if he didn't succeed is worse it's only luck he is not already a murderer.