View Full Version : End of the world 10th Sept 2008
SCIENTISTS are trying to stop the most powerful experiment ever – saying the black holes it will create could destroy the world.
Dubbed by some the Doomsday test, it will be carried out next week in the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), located 300ft underground near the French-Swiss border.
The machine is 17 miles long and cost £4.4billion to create.
When its switch is pulled on September 10, this atom-smasher will become a virtual time machine, revealing what happened when the universe came into existence 14 billion years ago.
New particles of matter are expected to be discovered, new dimensions found beyond the four known, as scientists re-create conditions in the first BILLIONTHS of a second after the Big Bang.
The atom smasher ... the 17-mile-long machine that some fear will destroy our planet
The atom smasher ... the 17-mile-long machine that some fear will destroy our planet
Experts even predict that millions of tiny black holes will be produced — baby brothers of the monsters gobbling up dust and stars at the heart of the galaxies.
Secrets
That is why boffins are now trying to stop the project with a last-ditch challenge in the courts.
They fear the LHC experimenters are tinkering with the unknown and putting mankind — and our whole planet — at risk.
The group responsible for the experiment, the European Nuclear Research Centre (CERN), says that these mini black holes will vanish as quickly as they are created.
But the anti-CERN brigade accuse the scientists of playing God, warning that no one can guarantee that the black holes will not survive, rapidly growing in size to suck the Earth out of existence in an instant.
But CERN, which includes several UK scientists, say their work is vital to unlock the secrets of matter that forms everything known in the universe.
In the experiment, atomic particles will be fired in opposite directions along the 17-mile long underground ring — the length of the Circle Line on the London Underground.
They will travel so fast that they make 11,245 trips around the tunnel every SECOND.
From the collisions, boffins expect to discover a fundamental bit of the atom, called the Higgs boson, that is expected to exist but which has never been seen.
Professor Otto Rossler, from the Eberhard Karls University of Tubingen in Germany, is one of the scientists mounting the legal challenge at the European Court of Human Rights against 20 countries which are funding the project.
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He said: “It is quite plausible that these little black holes will survive and will grow and eat the planet from the inside out.”
A CERN spokesman said: “It will not be producing anything that does not already happen routinely in nature.”
this was the only article i could copy but if you google it you'll find loads of stuff Supposed to happen this wednesday at 8.30am uk time
They are only trying to stop it now?! They've been working on it for years! If they were that concerned that it was dangerous, then they should have stopped it years ago.
Just about to post this Luna.. you beat me to it.. so Sorry Bry. no SBBB3 then...
for some facts:
At Cern on French-Swiss border
One of biggest and most expensive experiments in human history
Critics say micro black holes could be created, that could swallow the earth
Cern says any black holes will evaporate quickly and harmlessly
Effects will be less than cosmic ray collisions in atmosphere
Collisions could shed light on creation of universe
First beam on Wednesday
First collision later in year
Action ongoing at European Court of Human Rights to stop experiments
LHC Kritiks lead opposition
i dont know if i should laugh or cry at this lol...it sounds very worrying
But they are recreating the Big Bang. There was no black holes when the world was created, else we wouldn't be here. So why would this be any different? It's a load of rubbish, i say.
sindydoll
08-09-2008, 14:53
well we wont know anything about it! we will just go
Oh no, I want to see how things pan out in EE and Corrie. Mind you, I suppose they will not know themselves. :lol:
Oh no, I want to see how things pan out in EE and Corrie. Mind you, I suppose they will not know themselves. :lol:
I want to know how LOST ends, can die before that
.:SpIcYsPy:.
08-09-2008, 15:36
I can't believe they are potentially putting the whole world/universe or whatever it is at risk. But as sindydoll said.. We hopefully wouldn't know anything about it if it did happen.. I just hope it's painless and no one is left on Earth or anything like that lol..
But they are recreating the Big Bang. .
Not the big bang, the billionths of a second after the big bang.
They've been building this at CERN for 54 years. If it was really that dangerous then the top scientists of the 20 countries funding this would have voiced their concerns years ago.
Some of these scientists opposing this don't even specialise in this area, one is a pharmacist. This is just scaremongering by people who don't have a clue what they're talking about and aren't involved in the project.
I wouldn't say that this is a test that must be carried out but it is certainly interesting and will help scientists find out exactly what happened and how life began.
I did particle physics at A level so I know a fair bit about CERN, particle accelerators and how they work. If this experiment was so dangerous, 10,000 scientists would not put the world at risk to find out what happened 14 billion years ago.
I for one am looking forward to the results of this experiment :)
But they are recreating the Big Bang. .
Not the big bang, the billionths of a second after the big bang.
They've been building this at CERN for 54 years. If it was really that dangerous then the top scientists of the 20 countries funding this would have voiced their concerns years ago.
Some of these scientists opposing this don't even specialise in this area, one is a pharmacist. This is just scaremongering by people who don't have a clue what they're talking about and aren't involved in the project.
I wouldn't say that this is a test that must be carried out but it is certainly interesting and will help scientists find out exactly what happened and how life began.
I did particle physics at A level so I know a fair bit about CERN, particle accelerators and how they work. If this experiment was so dangerous, 10,000 scientists would not put the world at risk to find out what happened 14 billion years ago.
I for one am looking forward to the results of this experiment :)
Point still remains. No black holes in the billionths of seconds after the Big Bang:rolleyes: so why would big bangs suddenly be created now? If CERN are being as accurate as they say they are, then there doesn't seem like there is any reason for black holes to be created, which weren't created first time round.
Nobody have ever seen a black hole, they are theoretical entities.
The point is, nobody knows what happened after the big bang, whether black holes were created or not. It's entirely possible that they were and we are actually living in a black hole.
StarsOfCCTV
08-09-2008, 19:20
SCIENTISTS are trying to stop the most powerful experiment ever – saying the black holes it will create could destroy the world.
WHY SPEND 4.4 BILLION ON A MAGICAL MACHINE SUPPOSED TO SUCK THE EARTH OUT OF EXISTENCE. Despite the obvious waste of money, if it does work, then the scientists destroy themselves...and therefore they can't work out the secrets of matter. (or whatever they called it :p)
There is a fatal flaw in their plan. :lol:
[quote=Abi;597157]I for one am looking forward to the results of this experiment :)
if we are still here for the results that is :lol:
Bad Wolf
08-09-2008, 19:42
has anyone read the dan brown book angels and demons?
thats part of the plot - CERN everything!
Bad Wolf
08-09-2008, 22:13
there is a prog about it on i player called the big bang machine
I want to know how LOST ends, can die before that
Same here!
SCIENTISTS are trying to stop the most powerful experiment ever – saying the black holes it will create could destroy the world.
WHY SPEND 4.4 BILLION ON A MAGICAL MACHINE SUPPOSED TO SUCK THE EARTH OUT OF EXISTENCE. Despite the obvious waste of money, if it does work, then the scientists destroy themselves...and therefore they can't work out the secrets of matter. (or whatever they called it :p)
There is a fatal flaw in their plan. :lol:
:lol: lol this is very true.
I just have no idea what to think.
I mean yeah we want answers but sometimes is it really worth the risk?
Bad Wolf
08-09-2008, 22:23
just read dan brown - it has the answers
has anyone read the dan brown book angels and demons?
thats part of the plot - CERN everything!
lmao, that was the first thing i thought!! How hilarious would it be if they really did create antimatter. The Vatican better watch out if they do!!
Bad Wolf
08-09-2008, 22:30
has anyone read the dan brown book angels and demons?
thats part of the plot - CERN everything!
lmao, that was the first thing i thought!! How hilarious would it be if they really did create antimatter. The Vatican better watch out if they do!!
thats kinda what the other scientists are worried about, they just said in this programme they dont know quite what will happen
Well, I have done all my washing and ironing, but won't bother with the housework seeing that the world will come to an end tomorrow. :lol:
Behemoth
09-09-2008, 09:30
Has anyone seen End Day? It was a BBC drama in 2005.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1vKisefsuI
Has anyone seen End Day? It was a BBC drama in 2005. YouTube - END:DAY Part 6 of 6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1vKisefsuI)
omg thats quite scary!!!
Atleast i'll still be sleeping tomorrow if/when this does happen :lol:
the "Large Hadron Rap" below for an explanation of what the accelerator does:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j50ZssEojtM&eurl=http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24317385-2,00.html
.:SpIcYsPy:.
09-09-2008, 16:44
Spoke about this in form this morning and my new form tutor is a Science teacher and he says it's very unlikely that a black hole is created and he said even if it did happen it would be like 4 years before it actually swallowed us all up. Then he goes, ''So don't worry you will have plenty of time to sit the exams!'' :lol: Like that was our real worry!
Hollie-x
09-09-2008, 16:49
Spoke about this in form this morning and my new form tutor is a Science teacher and he says it's very unlikely that a black hole is created and he said even if it did happen it would be like 4 years before it actually swallowed us all up. Then he goes, ''So don't worry you will have plenty of time to sit the exams!'' :lol: Like that was our real worry!
Woo same here lol. I asked him (he's a biology teacher though!) and he said it would take around 4 years to actually happen.But even so, would these people even be allowed to do this experiment if it was so unsafe?
4 years... Lost will be over, I will be 40... mmmm not bad..
Honestly I don't see the fuss over this, if it was a dangerous would they really switch it on???
Hollie-x
09-09-2008, 16:56
4 years... Lost will be over, I will be 40... mmmm not bad..
Honestly I don't see the fuss over this, if it was a dangerous would they really switch it on???
That's what I was thinking. Surely they wouldn't be allowed to.
.:SpIcYsPy:.
09-09-2008, 16:56
Spoke about this in form this morning and my new form tutor is a Science teacher and he says it's very unlikely that a black hole is created and he said even if it did happen it would be like 4 years before it actually swallowed us all up. Then he goes, ''So don't worry you will have plenty of time to sit the exams!'' :lol: Like that was our real worry!
Woo same here lol. I asked him (he's a biology teacher though!) and he said it would take around 4 years to actually happen.But even so, would these people even be allowed to do this experiment if it was so unsafe?
Yeah my tutor specialises in Biology too! :D x
Hollie-x
09-09-2008, 17:00
Spoke about this in form this morning and my new form tutor is a Science teacher and he says it's very unlikely that a black hole is created and he said even if it did happen it would be like 4 years before it actually swallowed us all up. Then he goes, ''So don't worry you will have plenty of time to sit the exams!'' :lol: Like that was our real worry!
Woo same here lol. I asked him (he's a biology teacher though!) and he said it would take around 4 years to actually happen.But even so, would these people even be allowed to do this experiment if it was so unsafe?
Yeah my tutor specialises in Biology too! :D x
Oooo weird! Bet (if he's a man) that he doesn't have his hair in a ponytail though lmao. x
DaVeyWaVey
09-09-2008, 21:11
Heard about this today... don't know much about it but the world ending scares me .. there are many things I and I'm sure everyone wants to do before the world ends!
Why would they do it if it's dangerous? I think it's just wrong .. to put everyone's lives at risk just so they can carry out an experiment... I mean if everyone gave permission for them to do it then that's fine, but they are just going ahead with it and **** everyone else .. but then maybe I'm wrong and my view isn't really valid or right, but all I heard is the whole world ending stuff which could be media hype, but it still scares me in a very sad way lol.
Bad Wolf
09-09-2008, 22:19
what time are they pushing the button????
if we dont speak befor then - see ya!
anyone else glued to bbc news watching this????
They are bout half way there just now....
end of the world at 8:30am? load of old tosh!
This is all total hype.
I work in a research based university, we have people at Cern all the time. When I was a kid in the 80's my neighbour was a particle physicist and he was out at Cern on secondment for a year. There has been a particle accelerator out there for decades - this one is longer and more powerful and the detectors are stronger.
Hopefully we will eventually see results that do not only expand the boundaries of what we know but also have benefits for the general population. Pet scans originate from research at this site.
end of the world at 8:30am? load of old tosh!
aahhh but bry they only started at 8.30 they still hvae a few hours to go so you never know
Well, it is past 8:30 am and I am still alive - guess it was not as bad as predicted. Still not quite sure whether all this experimenting around will not come back to haunt humankind one day :hmm:
i dont get why we're messing with the earth like this! who gives a toss about pyhsics? the big bang bang? particules? mass? we've survived this whole time without knowing this. if God wanted us to know about all this he'd have provided us with a handbook!
who gives a toss about pyhsics? the big bang bang? particules? mass? we've survived this whole time without knowing this. if God wanted us to know about all this he'd have provided us with a handbook!
I give a toss about physics... and who said there is a God??? physics explains a lot to us...
who gives a toss about pyhsics? the big bang bang? particules? mass? we've survived this whole time without knowing this. if God wanted us to know about all this he'd have provided us with a handbook!
I give a toss about physics... and who said there is a God??? physics explains a lot to us...
here here shiv :cheer:
Bry, a part of the human condition is the need to explore and grow our body of knowledge. Without thought and experimentation all current knowledge would soon reach the level of fairytales and legand.
Without science and engineering noone would have time to write plays and watch TV (of course TV wouldn't have been invented - the cathode ray tube is based on a forerunner of particle physics).
We would all be too busy scraping a living by gathering wild berries and catching rabbits.
granted in the past it was important for us to develop, but now in the present i dont feel like we need to, life has gone fine the past few decades without this expermient
im not saying dont experiement, i'm just saying when the experiment runs of the risk of destroying the world - why bother?
But the atom bomb and other nasty war fare and nuclear energy was also invented through scientific experiments and humankind is now learning how bad for the environment it is. I agree that our modern lifestyle is only possible because of science and we have had huge benefits, especially in the medical field, but there are two sides to everything, nothing will ever be just good. I am also concerned that there are people in this world who would quite happily misuse science to get their own way and don't give a toss about others.
In a previous post I mentioned that there have been particle acceleration experiments in CERN for decades.
I also mentioned that the research was used to develop PET scans.
This is an extension to existing experiementation, it is not totally new.
The old say goes that we don't know what we don't know.
If we don't experiment we will never know how ignorant we really are.
In the past humans thought that the world was flat, that the sun revolved around the earth.
In the future people will find OUR levels of ignorance just as dramatic.
We don't know what we will discover, and that is the thrill of science.
But the atom bomb and other nasty war fare and nuclear energy was also invented through scientific experiments and humankind is now learning how bad for the environment it is. I agree that our modern lifestyle is only possible because of science and we have had huge benefits, especially in the medical field, but there are two sides to everything, nothing will ever be just good. I am also concerned that there are people in this world who would quite happily misuse science to get their own way and don't give a toss about others.
It is true that people misuse science.
Just as the misuse everything else. Before the atom bomb there were still munitions and people still abused and killed others. This goes back as long as history.
Wars are caused by man - not science, and we cannot prevent wars by limiting science.
If we don't experiment we will never know how ignorant we really are.
Ignore is bliss.
Other than finding cures for diseases, I don't see the need for us to experiment.
Why bother to find out how earth was created? Does it matter? it hasn't mattered for centuries.
We are now in an environment where we can survive comfortably the way we are. If it aint broke, don't touch it!
experiment.
Why bother to find out how earth was created? Does it matter? it hasn't mattered for centuries.
It matters more than you think... it has to do with religion V's Science.. .do you know how many wars were started due to religion???
I was never allowed to do evolution at school as it was a catholic school and they forbid it...
Ignorance is .....ignorance.
What we do not know we cannot quantify, we cannot know what applications the results of these experiements will have until the results are in.
Medical physics is a whole branch of physics that is involved in not just developing new scans and new ways of diagnosing diseases - but also new ways of treating diseases such as cancer using light (lasers) and other radiation (x-ray etc).
The results from CERN will increase our body of knowledge and will have applications in the future that we have not yet foreseen.
English science education is failing. All this rubbish about double and triple awards and kids being taught physics by biologists is having an effect on the general knowledge of the population.
One thing that is great about Scottish education is that we are taught physics by physics specialists, chemistry by chemists and biology by biologists. Many more kids in Scotland study science than in England - I wonder why. Perhaps it has something to do with our science teachers actually knowing what they are talking about?
BTW, I do not claim to be an expert, but I did study Physics, Chemistry and Biology at University before specialising in biochemisty.
I also work as a research administrator in a well rated technological university.
Behemoth
10-09-2008, 10:23
In a previous post I mentioned that there have been particle acceleration experiments in CERN for decades.
I also mentioned that the research was used to develop PET scans.
This is an extension to existing experiementation, it is not totally new.
The old say goes that we don't know what we don't know.
If we don't experiment we will never know how ignorant we really are.
In the past humans thought that the world was flat, that the sun revolved around the earth.
In the future people will find OUR levels of ignorance just as dramatic.
We don't know what we will discover, and that is the thrill of science.
Well said, Trinity.
[quote=Perdita;597588]But the atom bomb and other nasty war fare and nuclear energy was also invented through scientific experiments and humankind is now learning how bad for the environment it is. I agree that our modern lifestyle is only possible because of science and we have had huge benefits, especially in the medical field, but there are two sides to everything, nothing will ever be just good. I am also concerned that there are people in this world who would quite happily misuse science to get their own way and don't give a toss about others.
It is true that people misuse science.
Just as the misuse everything else. Before the atom bomb there were still munitions and people still abused and killed others. This goes back as long as history.
True, but in early history, war meant thousands of soldiers fighting. With nuclear warfare developed by scientists a person does not even have to leave an office or put a bullet into a gun - on the push of a button millions are dead and the environment is destroyed, possibly for ever. Science is brilliant - but experiments are carried out by humans and, of course, to err is human. There just is not much room for human regrets if it all goes horribly wrong, is there.
everyone has valid points
but my final say in the matter is - why destroy the world to get answers if we won't be around to know them.
that's my last post about the subject.
True, but in early history, war meant thousands of soldiers fighting. With nuclear warfare developed by scientists a person does not even have to leave an office or put a bullet into a gun - on the push of a button millions are dead and the environment is destroyed, possibly for ever. Science is brilliant - but experiments are carried out by humans and, of course, to err is human. There just is not much room for human regrets if it all goes horribly wrong, is there.
60 million people died in the second world war. Of these 66,000 died at Hiroshima and 20,000 at Nagasaki (although this figure is revised to 87,000 if you include people who died of the effects of the atom bomb up to years afterwards).
Man can kill man quite easily without the atom bomb.
everyone has valid points
but my final say in the matter is - why destroy the world to get answers if we won't be around to know them.
that's my last post about the subject.
Which is why it won't. Tabloid journalism has a lot to answer for!
everyone has valid points
but my final say in the matter is - why destroy the world to get answers if we won't be around to know them.
that's my last post about the subject.
We never were going to destroy the world. It's just hype from Journalists who want to sell papers (After else, what is more sensational than the end of the world?) and people who are too thick to understand that CERN would never have allowed it to happen. These are the best scientists in the world, they have been working on this for years and years - If there was even the slightest chance, they would have stopped the experiment.
As i said a few pages back, it is a load of rubbish. This is the most important experiment we will ever see in our lifetimes. It may show us the very foundations of humanity. We should be embracing it, not rubbishing it as dangerous. Especially when those claims are entirely unfounded.
I thought it was happening tonight.
Well thats what people at college thought too
So what did happen? :confused:
.:SpIcYsPy:.
10-09-2008, 15:35
It was started up at 8.31am and everything seems okay.
My form tutor (specialises in Biology) says it will probably be about 6 months or something before they actually bash the two things together :)
Oh right, so what is happening at the moment?
.:SpIcYsPy:.
10-09-2008, 15:46
Oh right, so what is happening at the moment?
Since it's Science I find the information he mentioned hard to register to my brain :lol: But I think he said they are just going to be circulating and then they will bash them together as soon as they are both circulating at the speed of light :) x
sindydoll
10-09-2008, 16:22
well the world didnt end
DaVeyWaVey
10-09-2008, 17:59
Thank god the world hasn't ended! My little sister who's 7 heard about it on Newsround and started crying as she thought the world would end.
Bad Wolf
10-09-2008, 18:06
anyone still there?????
anyone still there?????
If the world did end today im sorry to say that i went down instead of up!!!
Im stuck in a call centre for eternity!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
sindydoll
10-09-2008, 23:28
Thank god the world hasn't ended! My little sister who's 7 heard about it on Newsround and started crying as she thought the world would end.
my daughter is 13 and she has been very scared! but naturally i have been re insuring her that its a load of rubbish...but deep inside ive been pretty scared myself:lol:
Me too! The Year 13's were counting down to half 8 on Wednesday when it was supposed to happen and I was worried. Somehow the counting bit got out and there were Year 7's walking around saying, "The 6th formers have been having a countdown, it's going to happen!" :lol: This boy in my English class thinks that it's going to kill us all in about 4 months for some reason, there's all these different dates flying around so I say it's a load of rubbish now.
.:SpIcYsPy:.
20-09-2008, 15:59
It was stopped yesterday, something to do with positioning of the magnets. It will be started up again in 2 months (who knows, maybe another countdown!) :) x
sindydoll
24-09-2008, 15:02
well i heard that it takes a year for all this to happen
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