Can a creche do this??

[Siobhan]

I just got a call from the creche to say my son bit an older child and they don't know what room to place him in as they are afraid he will bite other kids so they are keeping him in his buggy all day and not allowing him outside to play.. Can a creche do this????

(his dad is going to collect him cause I think it is a disgrace)

[Perdita]

Seems a little OTT if they did not give you any further information. Has he bitten another child before? Do they know what might have caused him to bite? Did the other child do anything to him to provoke him? This must happen on a daily basis in creches in all countries, surely they just keep the two warring kids apart and tell the offender it is wrong to bite somebody else and then let them play but keep an eye on them. I agree with you that it is wrong to keep him in his buggy all day and not let him play, he does not understand why they do that. :angry: Hope you get it sorted.

[Siobhan]

he had a biting problem last year which I worked really really hard to stop and it started again yesterday. he bit a kid in his group so they put him in an older group.. he bit the kid today for no reason and they said they dont' know where to put him now if he is biting kids. I gave instruction from a health nurse on what has to be done with Ben but I don't think it is been followed.. I am just really annoyed that I put so much hard work into Ben behaviour and they don't help me

[sindydoll]

if a child is biting then they have the right to have that child removed! but im not sure about the buggy bit! i wouldnt be happy if my child was strapped in a buggy!

[Jojo]

Is this the first instance since last year Shiv??

The creche should be working with you - they say it was for no reason, but were the staff actively watching Ben's every move - I doubt it as no one, not even us parents can watch our children every minute of every day.

They certainly shouldn't be strapping him into the buggy all day! If they were using it as punishment for a few minutes, like what happened last year, then ok, its not so bad, but to say they were going to leave him in there all day, is downright wrong! I don't know about the legalities of it, but as a parent, if we left our child strapped into a buggy all day, what would the consequences be for us?

If Ben was persistently biting again, then I would think they would be allowed to ask for him to be removed, but I think after one incident, this is taking things very much too far.

Is there anyone you could contact to ask? Like a CAB or childcare officiate who might know?

[Siobhan]

yes.. this is the first time in a year.. he hasn't bitten anyone since we did all the work with him last year. The creche said a few weeks ago that they didn't like his behaviour (he has tantrum and kicks) so could I take him to see the health nurse. After speaking with her, she made a number of suggestions, one was the rewarding of good behaviour and to only put Ben on time out for 3 mins (supernanny tech).. they failed the first day and use the buggy whenever and for however long they think.

I have rang another creche (further away and hard to get to) to see if I could move him. Explain to them about Ben's behaviour and they are meeting with me next week to have a key worker with him for a few months. This worker will be sitting with me next week to find out what worked and what hasn't and we are getting a plan together.. I am much happier now.

[Trinity]

It seems awful to effectively use the buggy as a punishment.

This could quite easily give him a fear of buggys and cause more problems in the future.

It seems that the creche are under staffed, because surely trhis sort of thing comes up a lot? They should have a sensible strategy for dealing with it that doesn't involve restraining a toddler in a buggy for hours on end.

I wonder what the Health Service Executive (HSE) would make of this?

Behaviour management
Anyone providing a pre-school childcare service should ensure that no corporal punishment is inflicted on any child attending the service. There should be written policies and procedures are to deal with and to manage a child’s challenging behaviour and to assist the child to manage his or her behaviour

I would be asking to see their written policy...
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/education/pre-school-education-and-childcare/health_safety_and_welfare_of_preschool_childcare_s ervices

And also asking for assurance that the minimum staffing level laid out in the attached document is adhered to.

[sindydoll]

go and kick off with them big time girl:angry:

[Abigail]

I'm not sure about the legalities of it but it's morally wrong to keep a child strapped in a pushchair all day. I know biting can be serious but they should have better punishments in place than that.

Is there a reason why he has started biting again?

[Debs]

Im disgusted that theu would use the buggy as punishment and to say they would put him in it all day is wrong! I used to be a nursery nurse and if id put a chikd in their buggy even as punishment id have got a right old bollocking! But to say all day no way, id put in a complaint hun!

They should have ways of dealing with him, ways that have ben discussed with you.

Good luck with the meeting next week, hope they provide a bit more help and support for ben

xxx

[Siobhan]

Is there a reason why he has started biting again?

I can only think of negative attention.. that is all he gets or none.. I never see any praise for him.. when I pick him up it is either "ben did this, ben did that" or "yeah he was ok today".. it is never "Ben was great helping me". All kids need praise.. I give my kids it every day.. they pick up a spoon I thank them.. they help me, I give them hugs and kisses and make a big fuss.. if they misbehave, they know I am not happy and they want to please me again by behaving and doing something nice.. Positive attention!!!

[Abbie]

They really shouldnt keep him in his buggy all day! I mean even the workers there should know that thats wrong!

[Hollie-x]

Just showed my mumthis thread - she works as a link worker at the children's centre up the road - they provide day care from babies to 3 year old and then there's a nursery part.

They had the same kinda of incident a couple of months ago and my Mum said in no way are they allowed to do this. They shouldn't even really send him home unless it's deadly serious i.e he's a threat to the other children/members of staff. They should be working with you and Ben to understand why he's doing it and so to make sure it doesn't happen again.

[Jessie Wallace]

Restraining him in his buggy is actually a form of abuse Shiv, i would get advise from authority's.

[Katy]

i was thinking the same as JW this is defintly a breach of there powers they have been given, its irresponsable behaviour by the creche and should be chalenged.

I think the legal term in Ultra Vires meaning beyond powers.

Hope you sort it Shiv

[.:SpIcYsPy:.]

Wrong thread sorry but I hope you get it sorted out Siobhan, all sounds wrong from my point of view! x

[Chloe O'brien]

I don't want to put a spanner in the works Shiv but don't you ever get the feeling that some of the creche workers favour other kids over Ben on what happened last year. Like he has bitten one child and they're like ooh he was awful last year so they have just thrown him in his buggy for some peace.

I may be speaking out of turn here and I apologise if I ofend you SHiv or anyone else but Marley was with a childminder for 9 years up to last year Elaine was a good caring childminder. Marley used to cared for in a church hall as there was two childminders there who looked after the kids there instead of in their own houses, that way the kids could get out to play in the church garden and the childminders had adult company.

5 years ago Elaine started looking after this little lad Scott, Scott is now at school but when he got to a toddler he started becoming a bit of a handful Elaine thought it was that he didn't get much attention at home from his parents. But then some of the older kids would hit him and as Scott was a bit big for his age he would stand up for himself and if a 4 year old hit him then Scott would hit back. Unfortunatley Scott would be the one who got caught and made to sit in the naughty chair for a few minutes.

Once Marley went to school I used to pop into the hall and have a cuppa before I went to work and if anything happened Scott was first to be blamed even if he was at the other end of the room. The other childminder Wendy was forever comenting that Scott was a little shi* and so were other childminders who would pop in for the mother and toddler group. The poor lad never stood a chance. I know he was no angel but hey what kid is. All i'm saying that you had problems at the creche last year with Ben but don't you think they are making a mountain out of a mole hill just to get you to remove him. If you think I'm wrong then tell me to shut my pie hole.

[Abigail]

I agree with Kath. Is it possible that Ben is being made a scapegoat for things that happen in the crech? Or is he reacting to something that another kid has done to him but he's been caught instead of the other kid?

[Siobhan]

Thanks Kath.. that is sometime how I feel.. I think every new worker there they are told to watch out for Ben.. I know that his other friends in the creche are behaving the same way but not getting the same crap from the owner. I have a meeting with another creche tomorrow so hopefully we will get him out of there. Charley is also been picked on by her minder so she wants to move to.. With both of them unhappy, I am not keeping them there anymore and I will let the owner know why I am moving them

[Jojo]

Have you spoken to them about him being in the pushchair for that long? Make sure you tear strips off them as no matter what Ben has done in the past - he is a child. He does not deserve treatment like that. Who does the certfication over there (like Ofsted here - is it the same people? Dumb question time :D :lol: ) Have you spoken to them to report this treatment. No matter what a child does - if a parent did that to them, SS would be on their case in no time for abuse/neglect etc - I think its about time the creche was subjected to the same treatment. We have to trust the people who we leave our children with and this creche obviously can't be trusted.

x x

[Pinkbanana]

I think I'd remove the child from the creche too. Maybe its the environment, or other children there....thats causing your child to bite....if he is bored, copying another child, or not getting any attention from the child carers...I can understand why something like this would happen. Moreover, strapping him in his buggy, IS child abuse and that's the reason I would move the child....because it would make me think what else does the creche deem acceptable if they can do that to a child?

Good luck with finding a good creche! :)

[xxloopylauraxx]

From an 'inside view' if u like (ive worked in a nursery for 3 years and been qualified the same amount of time in childrens care), reading what you have said Siobhan, its not right. although teachers nursery nurse's and creché wrokers etc have a right to remove the child from the situation so they can realise what theyve done is wrong, but as for moving them to an older class so they can be treated is wrong but also what a child done 5 mins ago happend they dnt rememeber, you go and collect him at the end of the day adn say have you been in the buggy all day because you bit so and so, theyll deny it because alot happened.
the creché was in the wrong to A) ring you to tell you basicaly from the way i see it as they didnt know what to do with your son but also to punish him in that way. i no that i would never treat any child like that not even my own. and im quiet harsh on the children at work. a bit of bribary would have worked on him surely, if you bite again you wont be able to play outside etc.
hope your son wasnt to disstressd when you saw him.