View Full Version : England goes smoke-free
Good or Bad?
Bout time i say!! Apparently an estimated 46,000 people quit because of the ban in Scotland alone. Hopefully this will be an incentive to more people in England to follow suit and quit as well. If people want to smoke, then thats their decision. I just dont like the fact that their decision can get in my way, as a non-smoker. If they want to smoke, go ahead. Just not around me, when i've purposefully choosen not to smoke for a reason.
Chris_2k11
01-07-2007, 20:52
Good, and this comes from a smoker. Its made me think about quitting and i've cut down already. But overall I don't think it will work. I can see people in clubs sneaking off for one somewhere, I think it will all fall through to be honest..
Pinkbanana
01-07-2007, 20:58
I am glad that I can go for a night out and not return home smelling of fags...Not to mention the harm being done to my body from breathing in this smoke.:sick:
Loads of smokers, I know, are up in arms about it, saying that their human rights are being curbed...I'd say I have a right to go into a public place and not breathe in their poison.
In a few years time Im sure we will look back and say I cant believe people use to be allowed to smoke in bars, clubs, on trains etc...
Pinkbanana
01-07-2007, 21:00
But overall I don't think it will work. I can see people in clubs sneaking off for one somewhere..
Yeah, toilets seem to be the place where peeps sneak off too. I know thats the case at several pubs Ive been in that had already introduced the no smoking ban. And its true at the metrocentre....:mad:
pookie1968uk
01-07-2007, 22:18
it is a very good thing and about time. i should not have to breathe in peoples cigarette smoke anywhere when i choose not to smoke.
DaVeyWaVey
01-07-2007, 22:23
I'm glad the ban has come in now, it's a great idea. Non - smokers shouldn't have to breathe in other smokers' cigarrette smoke.
If people wish to smoke, they should do it in a place where it won't effect non-smokers in my opinion.
Chloe O'brien
01-07-2007, 23:12
Scotland has had a smoke ban for over a year now and there was mixed reactions when if was first inforced. The most places effected by the smoking ban is bingo halls previously when there were breaks in between games bingo participants would spend there money on the slot machines or on the prize bingo, but now they all run outside for a smoke. This had led to bingo halls loosing thousands of pounds every week. As for the pubs I haven't seen a huge reduction in customers I was in one in the centre of Edinburgh on Friday night and it was packed. Once thing I will say is that a lot of pubs had to be refirbished after the ban came into operation because once the smell of smoke went the pub still reeked of musky smell due to years of customers smoking in them.
We went to play snooker tonight as it was great. For the first time no lighting up of cigs or spliff.
CrazyLea
02-07-2007, 01:26
I have mixed feelings about it lol. Yes it's good that it's not getting to the non-smokers health etc..
But talking to my mate the other day (Who is also a non smoker ), she goes to clubs quite a lot.. and as you knwo the ban has been in Wales for a while, and hse said it causes a divide between everyone, which I don't agree with, yes I kno wits the smokers choisce to smoke, but should we punish them for smokung? I dont think so. Also I think that it should be up to the landlord of pubs etc to decide whether there should be smoking. In all fairness.. if the non smoker wants to go the public place where thers smoke, then thats up to then, if theyre soooo against it they wouldnt go!!!!
But that is my opinion, and I know I will be in the minority there!
I am a non-smoker btw!
Its about time England caught up with the rest of the British Isles.:cheer: One of Bliars very few good ideas
I have mixed feelings about it lol. Yes it's good that it's not getting to the non-smokers health etc..
But talking to my mate the other day (Who is also a non smoker ), she goes to clubs quite a lot.. and as you knwo the ban has been in Wales for a while, and hse said it causes a divide between everyone, which I don't agree with, yes I kno wits the smokers choisce to smoke, but should we punish them for smokung? I dont think so. Also I think that it should be up to the landlord of pubs etc to decide whether there should be smoking. In all fairness.. if the non smoker wants to go the public place where thers smoke, then thats up to then, if theyre soooo against it they wouldnt go!!!!
But that is my opinion, and I know I will be in the minority there!
I am a non-smoker btw!
Its not about punishing the smokers. They can still do it in private. Just don't pollute the public places I visit.
what people need to get their heads round is that they are not banned from smoking they are just prohibited from smoking in some places. its the same from when they stopped smoking on buses and in the cinema. to think of smoking in those places now is just stupid, i think its a great idea.
i'm all for it, it'll be nice to be able to go to gigs and return not smelling of smoke, in fact i should have gone last night to see what happened, and i seriously can't imagine all the people standing outside the pub in the really heavy rain we're having!
i used to be fine with people smoking in public, their choice and all but now it makes me feel really ill and i can't breathe so i guess i'm all for it!
It is a good thing!! I am a smoker and live in Scotland where we have had the ban for over a year and it has not affected the bars and clubs whatsoever. It's much better being able to have a dance on the dance floor with out someone burning you with their cigarette. I used to hate that having many items of clothing ruined because of it. OK it's not so great in the winter when it's bucketing of rain and we have to stand outside but on the whole it's a better thing!! :) But in saying that many bars have built outside smoking shelters for us smokers :)
I do have to agree with hte bingo thing though I go regularly to the bingo and not so many people go anymore this is mainly due to not being able to smoke inside and with so many online bingo sites people would rather stay at home where they can smoke till they're hearts content.
Can we abstein from voting ?? lol
I can see it from both sides tbh and whilst its good in most respects, its forcing the hand of others.
(I have to wonder, whats going to happen when/if everyone gave up smoking - where is the extra money going to come from to replace what would have gone into the kitty from the fags??) :)
SarahWakefield
02-07-2007, 13:09
Did you know, that tax from smoking generates £10 billion pounds a year. Smoking related dieseases cost the Nhs £2 billion a year, meaning that if everyone gave up smoking tomorrow the Government would have a £8 billion shortfall to make up with taxes from elsewhere, would you be prepared to pay more tax? And, really a working smoker pays more tax than a non smoker. Also all this 'my clothes smell' guff makes me laugh. Ooh dear smelly clothes. I don't particulary like walking down the pavement inhaling carbon monoxide from the car you drive but you're not going to stop driving are you? It always makes me laugh when I hear people talk about the link between passive smoking and cancer, yet they quite freely inhale more pollutants as they walk down the street. The same people, may I add, complain about smoking yet they eat food that has been genetically modified, which cause cancer. They eat from Mcdonalds, with burgers that have come from cows that have been pumped so full of anti biotics they are weakening the human immune system. Oh did you know that you are also eating cow sh*t when you eat your burger? Yep, it all goes in there, then the lovely people at Mcdonalds heat it so it 'kills the bacteria.' Hypocrites!
Did you know, that tax from smoking generates £10 billion pounds a year. Actually its more like £14 bn.
Smoking related dieseases cost the Nhs £2 billion a year, meaning that if everyone gave up smoking tomorrow the Government would have a £8 billion shortfall to make up with taxes from elsewhere, would you be prepared to pay more tax? Yes but then again there are numerous savings the Goverment coud make to recoup this shortfall.
And, really a working smoker pays more tax than a non smoker.Doesnt give them the right to poison me Also all this 'my clothes smell' guff makes me laugh. Ooh dear smelly clothes. I don't particulary like walking down the pavement inhaling carbon monoxide from the car you drive but you're not going to stop driving are you? No but each year with the new tecnology the pollutin from motor vehicles is becoming less and less It always makes me laugh when I hear people talk about the link between passive smoking and cancer, yet they quite freely inhale more pollutants as they walk down the street. Visit the Cancer ward of you local hospital to see the damage caused by smoking. I have witnessed numerous cancer related deaths due to the effects of passive smoking. I suffer from Asthma due too having to work with selfish smokersThe same people, may I add, complain about smoking yet they eat food that has been genetically modified, which cause cancer. Not all GM food causes cancer and besides the only harm would be to whoever eats it not the 20 or 30 people sitting around you who had up to now no choice as to whether they inhaled the carciogens exhaled by smokersThey eat from Mcdonalds, with burgers that have come from cows that have been pumped so full of anti biotics they are weakening the human immune system. Not all of us no smokers eat at Mac DonaldsOh did you know that you are also eating cow sh*t when you eat your burger? Yep, it all goes in there, then the lovely people at Mcdonalds heat it so it 'kills the bacteria.' Hypocrites!
It is an undisputed fact that exhaled smoke contains numerous cancer causing chemicals. If you want to smoke thats your choice but others should not be forced to suffer from the potential fatal effects of your habit. Kill yourself if you wish but dont poison me or my family.
JustJodi
02-07-2007, 15:24
Did you know, that tax from smoking generates £10 billion pounds a year. Actually its more like £14 bn.
Smoking related dieseases cost the Nhs £2 billion a year, meaning that if everyone gave up smoking tomorrow the Government would have a £8 billion shortfall to make up with taxes from elsewhere, would you be prepared to pay more tax? Yes but then again there are numerous savings the Goverment coud make to recoup this shortfall.
And, really a working smoker pays more tax than a non smoker.Doesnt give them the right to poison me Also all this 'my clothes smell' guff makes me laugh. Ooh dear smelly clothes. I don't particulary like walking down the pavement inhaling carbon monoxide from the car you drive but you're not going to stop driving are you? No but each year with the new tecnology the pollutin from motor vehicles is becoming less and less It always makes me laugh when I hear people talk about the link between passive smoking and cancer, yet they quite freely inhale more pollutants as they walk down the street. Visit the Cancer ward of you local hospital to see the damage caused by smoking. I have witnessed numerous cancer related deaths due to the effects of passive smoking. I suffer from Asthma due too having to work with selfish smokersThe same people, may I add, complain about smoking yet they eat food that has been genetically modified, which cause cancer. Not all GM food causes cancer and besides the only harm would be to whoever eats it not the 20 or 30 people sitting around you who had up to now no choice as to whether they inhaled the carciogens exhaled by smokersThey eat from Mcdonalds, with burgers that have come from cows that have been pumped so full of anti biotics they are weakening the human immune system. Not all of us no smokers eat at Mac DonaldsOh did you know that you are also eating cow sh*t when you eat your burger? Yep, it all goes in there, then the lovely people at Mcdonalds heat it so it 'kills the bacteria.' Hypocrites!
It is an undisputed fact that exhaled smoke contains numerous cancer causing chemicals. If you want to smoke thats your choice but others should not be forced to suffer from the potential fatal effects of your habit. Kill yourself if you wish but dont poison me or my family.
Alan well put, I am a former smoker, and even when I smoked I could not stand being in a bar,, I prefered to smoke at home or in my shed ..but I have since given it up,, Both me and my partner are SMOKE FREE,, and its nice to open my suitcase and not be hit with the smell of stale smoke from the clothes that I have packed for us,,, its nice :-D
JJ:D
JustJodi
02-07-2007, 15:25
Can we abstein from voting ?? lol
I can see it from both sides tbh and whilst its good in most respects, its forcing the hand of others.
(I have to wonder, whats going to happen when/if everyone gave up smoking - where is the extra money going to come from to replace what would have gone into the kitty from the fags??) :)
I am gonna start a thread on that one,,, IF U QUIT SMOKING WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH THE EXTRA FAG MONEY U SAVE lol:rotfl: :rotfl:
SarahWakefield
02-07-2007, 15:26
That what I posted didn't actually come from me, it was actually from a none smoker! Because he also put:
I am a non smoker who believes people can smoke where they like, and stop treating them like social lepers. Alcohol will be next, which is responsible for more illnesses than smoking btw.
Ooooh and in my opinion, ex smokers, are always the worst ones!
That what I posted didn't actually come from me, it was actually from a none smoker! Because he also put:
I am a non smoker who believes people can smoke where they like, and stop treating them like social lepers. Alcohol will be next, which is responsible for more illnesses than smoking btw.
Ooooh and in my opinion, ex smokers, are always the worst ones!Actually I have never smoked in my life although have suffered health problems caused by smokers. I recently had a stroke and according to my consultant had I been a smoker the results of it would have been fatal. My decision to drink alcohol does not poison those around me unlike the effects of a smoker. :p I have never heard of anyone getting lung cancer from someone elses drinking.
SarahWakefield
02-07-2007, 15:55
Im not saying that drinking necessarily harms others around you, but in general people are ill from drinking.
Seems anything I say just gets dismissed so ill say nothing else on the matter, apart from i think its totally wrong!
just from being out and about today, in my local town no-one actually payed attention to it whilst in manchester people were adhering and i have to say it wasn't pleasant when i walked out of piccadilly station because there were huge crowds under the roof smoking but oh well i'll get used to it!
Bad Wolf
02-07-2007, 19:15
i work in a pub occasionally and this is great news, the only bad thing is you can smell the potato and leek soup cooking - stink!
CrazyLea
02-07-2007, 19:26
That's another thing.. Now that you can't smoke in clubs and pubs etc, there are alot of drunk people smoking outside in the street (For the places that haven't got a shelter), And it make me nervous walking in front of them, so I'll cross the road if possible, but it doesn't stop them making remarks. It's intimidating, particularly for teenagers and the elderly people.
Pinkbanana
02-07-2007, 19:34
I am a non smoker who believes people can smoke where they like, and stop treating them like social lepers.
You could say that smokers are the anti social ones, polluting the air around them, with ‘second hand’ smoke. Smoke which is involuntarily inhaled by others (children and adults). Smoke which can cause diseases (ie cancer) and premature death in children and adults. Smoke which contains hundreds of chemicals known to be toxic….
So excuse me if I dont feel sorry for smokers having to go outside to smoke now, or that they feel like they are 'social lepers'. I value my health much more than I do their feelings.
For the record, I use to be an occasional 'social' smoker. Though I dont think there's anything at all social about smoking.
Chloe O'brien
02-07-2007, 20:58
Most of my friends smoke and have continued to do so since the ban was introduced, if we're on a night out the just go outside. It has not encouraged them to stop smoking, even at work we have two smoking shelters and the smokers are out there in all weather. I don't think the economy will suffer that much.
pinkles14
02-07-2007, 21:19
Ooooh and in my opinion, ex smokers, are always the worst ones!
Not all ex smokers are the worst i gave up smoking 2 an a half years ago but i have not told my partner friends or family to stop smoking and they all smoke around me i dont mind..
Lets not bash each other about being smokers, non smokers, or otherwise. We are all entitled to our opinions and don't need to be bashed for them.
Personally, I do feel that smokers are made to feel social outcasts, just like single parent families were by the Tories.
A friend of mine is going through their 3rd bout of cancer (not lung but cancer all the same) and we've just found out it has spread and the outlook is looking very grim. I also have a great uncle who is suffering from terminal cancer.
But its coming to the point of daft, in some respects. When you are pregnant, you can't eat this, that or anything else, you can't drink this that or anything else, you can't DO this that or anything else - so what are you supposed to do. We are being told more and more how to live our lives and choice is suddenly disappearing from our hands. When I had my eldest son, my dad brought in a four pack of guiness into the hospital for me - if he even considered bringing me a glass of wine now, both of us would be shamed.
I just wonder where it is going to end tbh. I'm not going for anyone, or against anyone, but looking at it from both sides and can understand both sides too.
Lets not bash each other about being smokers, non smokers, or otherwise. We are all entitled to our opinions and don't need to be bashed for them.
Personally, I do feel that smokers are made to feel social outcasts, just like single parent families were by the Tories.
A friend of mine is going through their 3rd bout of cancer (not lung but cancer all the same) and we've just found out it has spread and the outlook is looking very grim. I also have a great uncle who is suffering from terminal cancer.
But its coming to the point of daft, in some respects. When you are pregnant, you can't eat this, that or anything else, you can't drink this that or anything else, you can't DO this that or anything else - so what are you supposed to do. We are being told more and more how to live our lives and choice is suddenly disappearing from our hands. When I had my eldest son, my dad brought in a four pack of guiness into the hospital for me - if he even considered bringing me a glass of wine now, both of us would be shamed.
I just wonder where it is going to end tbh. I'm not going for anyone, or against anyone, but looking at it from both sides and can understand both sides too.
Whilst I agree with your sentiments Ems. The problem with smoking is that it doesnt just affect the smokers health. It affects the health of those who are forced to breath in the exhaled smoke. If someone drinks too much its only their liver that gets sirosis (sp)
The effects of nicotine and tobacco are well documented.
As for your Dad bringing Guiness into hospital for you I hope you drank it its full of iron. You should have went through BUPA though when my wife was in hospital recovering from major surgery the ward sister used to pour her a glass of Brandy each evening:)
Do this quiz you may shock yourself:eek:
http://www.jeffreywigand.com/knowledgetest.php
SarahWakefield
03-07-2007, 03:54
Its not ok for you to breathe in smoke, but yet, it is ok for you to breathe in the crap that comes from cars? ...hmmmmm, ok then! Yes, yes....do go on, say what you said before about cars been made so there arent alot of whatever anymore, still dangerous and ive got to inhale that stuff! Do you see us complaning about that? Noooooooo!!!
It actually really really winds me up.
Tonight in the nightclub we went outside for a smoke and a non smoker was out complaining, erm hello....get back inside then, you wanted it like this so dont come outside chuffing complaining!
SarahWakefield
03-07-2007, 03:56
That's another thing.. Now that you can't smoke in clubs and pubs etc, there are alot of drunk people smoking outside in the street (For the places that haven't got a shelter), And it make me nervous walking in front of them, so I'll cross the road if possible, but it doesn't stop them making remarks. It's intimidating, particularly for teenagers and the elderly people.
This maybe the case, id feel intimidated too, but where should we go? We are outside, not polluting your air but yet still getting complaints?
I dont get it! ...I really dont! :hmm:
Im not saying that drinking necessarily harms others around you, but in general people are ill from drinking.
Seems anything I say just gets dismissed so ill say nothing else on the matter, apart from i think its totally wrong!Make your mind up
Its not ok for you to breathe in smoke, but yet, it is ok for you to breathe in the crap that comes from cars? ...hmmmmm, ok then! Yes, yes....do go on, say what you said before about cars been made so there arent alot of whatever anymore, Ok as you insist then. Cars are being made safer im the pollutants that they now produce. Most cars are now fitted with Catalytic Convertors. Not all cars are using fossill fuels nowadays, I take it you have heard of hybrid cars, cars which run on bio fuels. All cars are tested to make sure they do not produce excessive pollutants. The motor industry is constantly striving to make motor vehicles more environmentally friendly. Generally cars dont drive into enclosed spaces such as pubs, night clubs, cinemas and offices.still dangerous and ive got to inhale that stuff! Do you see us complaning about that? Noooooooo!!!Spoken like a true nictine addict and apolgist for the tobacco industry
It actually really really winds me up.I know what you mean but its about time the Government tackled one of the major preventable causes of death in this country
Tonight in the nightclub we went outside for a smoke and a non smoker was out complaining, erm hello....get back inside then, you wanted it like this so dont come outside chuffing complaining!Obviously you were congregated round the doorway where your toxic fumes were being carried into the night club
That's another thing.. Now that you can't smoke in clubs and pubs etc, there are alot of drunk people smoking outside in the street (For the places that haven't got a shelter), And it make me nervous walking in front of them, so I'll cross the road if possible, but it doesn't stop them making remarks. It's intimidating, particularly for teenagers and the elderly people.
This maybe the case, id feel intimidated too, but where should we go? Why not go and seek advice on quitting before you get lung cancer or emphysema. You are probably an educated woman consider your own health and read the dacts about the harm you are doing to yourself and others. Its no point lying in hosptal minus a lung thinking Oh if only I had given up smokingWe are outside, not polluting your air but yet still getting complaints?
I dont get it! ...I really dont! :hmm:Try searching google to discover a bit more about the effects of smoking
Do this quiz you may shock yourself:eek:
http://www.jeffreywigand.com/knowledgetest.php
I assume you didnt bother to take the test:rolleyes: You really should. It may open your eyes which seem blinded by smoke
Whilst I agree with your sentiments Ems. The problem with smoking is that it doesnt just affect the smokers health. It affects the health of those who are forced to breath in the exhaled smoke. If someone drinks too much its only their liver that gets sirosis (sp)
The effects of nicotine and tobacco are well documented.
As for your Dad bringing Guiness into hospital for you I hope you drank it its full of iron. You should have went through BUPA though when my wife was in hospital recovering from major surgery the ward sister used to pour her a glass of Brandy each evening:)
That is the major problem Alan, it isn't just your own health you damage and thats why I made the choice to stop, to protect and hopefully prolong my life and to keep my children from it. But I also feel that people are being forced into things all the time of late, like not having runny yolks when pregnant (it aint stopping me lol) etc. But obviously, lung cancer is something completely different to that.
The Guiness - oh yes...I drank every can, celebrated the birth of my son and toasted the midwives - who were more than happy me drinking it on the ward - oh how times have changed lol. These days, the most you get on the wards is a cuppa which can't even be described as nice lol. Home birth next time - then I'll have that Guiness to celebrate again :D
SarahWakefield
03-07-2007, 11:13
No actually, we werent congregated round the doorway, we were outside - where we are supossed to be!
Its going to take some geting used to, i mean there are already land lords going against the ban. Eventually i think it will work for the better. Ireland showed us it works and people havent stopped going to the pub because of it, instead its more pleasent. People have set up smoking areas outside which i think is the way forward, i know there is one at my college.
Pinkbanana
03-07-2007, 18:50
Its not ok for you to breathe in smoke, but yet, it is ok for you to breathe in the crap that comes from cars? ...hmmmmm, ok then! Yes, yes....do go on, say what you said before about cars been made so there arent alot of whatever anymore, still dangerous and ive got to inhale that stuff! Do you see us complaning about that? Noooooooo!!!
It actually really really winds me up.
None of the posters on this thread, have said that we welcome breathing in car fumes, but you are not really comparing like with like.
Firstly, we are talking about breathing in toxic second hand smoke in confined spaces (ie pubs), whereas, yes you do breathe in fumes from cars but its outside in the open and thus the fumes arent as concentrated...
Secondly, I totally agree that car fumes are a form of pollution, but as Alan45 has said technology is constantly striving to make cars cleaner. Also the government is setting pretty tough targets for manufacturers to meet regarding car emissions.
Moreover, at the end of the day...cars, delivery trucks, buses serve a purpose/function, unlike smoking...
If you want to smoke, that's your choice, noone is saying otherwise....but I am pleased that the smoking ban prevents you from doing it near me. I think Im entitled to a choice too, ie of having a drink, meal etc...without inhaling toxic fumes (which have been medically proved to cause cancer).:)
SarahWakefield
03-07-2007, 19:10
Still wrong, you all keep saying you dont want to inhale second hand smoke, i get that!!
Pinkbanana
03-07-2007, 19:12
Still wrong, you all keep saying you dont want to inhale second hand smoke, i get that!!
Erm, its a forum, Im expressing my opinion and responding to yours!
SarahWakefield
03-07-2007, 19:35
And im just saying that i get that you all dont want to inhale second hand smoke!
Still wrong, you all keep saying you dont want to inhale second hand smoke, i get that!!Sorry you appear to have lost me there. Exactly what point are you trying to make:confused:
SarahWakefield
03-07-2007, 22:54
Im trying to make no point, im just saying theres no need to keep saying that. I get that none of you like inhaliling it.
Pinkbanana
03-07-2007, 23:40
Im trying to make no point, im just saying theres no need to keep saying that. I get that none of you like inhaliling it.
Excuse me, but I was just responding to your argument about car emissions being the same as inhaling second hand smoke...btw you have mentioned car emissions a number of times too.
This is a discussion thread....sooo naturally people are going to give their opinions, which may get repeated/reinforced....:rolleyes: Ofcourse if you keep putting forward your opinion, or making points, others are going to respond....Just because someone disagrees with your view point there's no need to be so dismissive of others’ views…
Looking at the poll, so far no-ones voted that its a bad thing.
I tried smoking when I was about 11. I had asthma for days. Then I tried again when I was about 17. I used to think I was mega cool with a cig in my hand until some noticed the way I 'smoked'. I never took a puff from the cig and then breathed inwards - I just held it in my mouth and let it out. I tried to inhale and ended up coughing my guts out. Thought wtf, this can't be good for you and stopped smoking there and then.
SarahWakefield
04-07-2007, 00:09
Im trying to make no point, im just saying theres no need to keep saying that. I get that none of you like inhaliling it.
Excuse me, but I was just responding to your argument about car emissions being the same as inhaling second hand smoke...btw you have mentioned car emissions a number of times too.
This is a discussion thread....sooo naturally people are going to give their opinions, which may get repeated/reinforced....:rolleyes: Ofcourse if you keep putting forward your opinion, or making points, others are going to respond....Just because someone disagrees with your view point there's no need to be so dismissive of others’ views…
Im not meaning to sound nasty or anything like that, im just not for the idea.
Im not very good at wording things, so often it seems like im been negative.
Im not meaning to sound nasty or anything like that, im just not for the idea.
Im not very good at wording things, so often it seems like im been negative.
Perhaps if you thought a bit more about the ill effects of smoking and studied the subject you could maybe present a reasoned argument. Most of us who are in the anti smoking lobby have researched the matter and a therefore able to produce a reasonable argument based on facts not the propoganda pushed down our throats by the multi millionaires who control the tobacco industry. It has been well documented how they increase the addiction causing chemicals when they flood third world countries with their poison
SarahWakefield
04-07-2007, 00:45
I'll say nothing more on the matter!
Im not saying that drinking necessarily harms others around you, but in general people are ill from drinking.
Seems anything I say just gets dismissed so ill say nothing else on the matter, :rolleyes: apart from i think its totally wrong!
Its not ok for you to breathe in smoke, but yet, it is ok for you to breathe in the crap that comes from cars? ...hmmmmm, ok then! Yes, yes....do go on, say what you said before about cars been made so there arent alot of whatever anymore, still dangerous and ive got to inhale that stuff! Do you see us complaning about that? Noooooooo!!!
It actually really really winds me up.
Tonight in the nightclub we went outside for a smoke and a non smoker was out complaining, erm hello....get back inside then, you wanted it like this so dont come outside chuffing complaining!
That's another thing.. Now that you can't smoke in clubs and pubs etc, there are alot of drunk people smoking outside in the street (For the places that haven't got a shelter), And it make me nervous walking in front of them, so I'll cross the road if possible, but it doesn't stop them making remarks. It's intimidating, particularly for teenagers and the elderly people.
This maybe the case, id feel intimidated too, but where should we go? We are outside, not polluting your air but yet still getting complaints?
I dont get it! ...I really dont! :hmm:
No actually, we werent congregated round the doorway, we were outside - where we are supossed to be!
Still wrong, you all keep saying you dont want to inhale second hand smoke, i get that!!
And im just saying that i get that you all dont want to inhale second hand smoke!
Im trying to make no point, im just saying theres no need to keep saying that. I get that none of you like inhaliling it.
Im trying to make no point, im just saying theres no need to keep saying that. I get that none of you like inhaliling it.
Excuse me, but I was just responding to your argument about car emissions being the same as inhaling second hand smoke...btw you have mentioned car emissions a number of times too.
This is a discussion thread....sooo naturally people are going to give their opinions, which may get repeated/reinforced....:rolleyes: Ofcourse if you keep putting forward your opinion, or making points, others are going to respond....Just because someone disagrees with your view point there's no need to be so dismissive of others’ views…
Im not meaning to sound nasty or anything like that, im just not for the idea.
Im not very good at wording things, so often it seems like im been negative.
I'll say nothing more on the matter!:rolleyes:
I'm sure if you can present a well reasoned factually based argument someone may listen
SarahWakefield
04-07-2007, 01:41
Why? Whatever I say about smoking according to you is wrong sooo i really dont see the point in saying anything else tbqh!
Seems anything I say just gets dismissed so ill say nothing else on the matter, apart from i think its totally wrong!
I'll say nothing more on the matter!
i really dont see the point in saying anything else tbqh!
Ok thats fine by me I was trying to give you a chance to put your point of view forward
I was going to vote no but knew I'd get slated if I did :o
One person has given their opinion that they don't agree with it, and all have jumped on the bandwagon about it. Its no wonder no one has actually voted no.
Sorry, but thats just me.
CrazyLea
04-07-2007, 16:13
I think there should have been another option, as I am still unsure about it. Neither yes or no. But like Ems was saying about the no's, I voted yes for that very reason. (I could have left it blank, but I like to answer polls :lol: :p)
Pinkbanana
04-07-2007, 19:45
I was going to vote no but knew I'd get slated if I did :o
One person has given their opinion that they don't agree with it, and all have jumped on the bandwagon about it. Its no wonder no one has actually voted no.
Sorry, but thats just me.
Im not sure quite what you are saying, but every one is entitled to an opinion....I am not jumping on any bandwagon here....I have my own mind and opinion on the subject, thank you.
I have merely been responding to the comments of others, in a discussion forum.
SarahWakefield
04-07-2007, 20:22
What's happening to human rights is what I want to know?
Why should someone have the right to tell us what we should and shouldn't do?!
samantha nixon
04-07-2007, 20:40
I'm a non smoker and I wont ever smoke as I think it is a dirty habbit, and from being around family who smoke I know what it actually does to your lungs and heart, but I also know how hard it is to stop.
I'm half and half as I think it's good that people aint allowed to smoke in places, as I went for a meal on sunday and it was great that their was no smoke. But to be honest in the first place I cant say I really noticed the smoke.
But im aslo againts it as a nurse was killed when she went out of the hospital for a fag, so her life was took just because she had to leave the building.
So I think it is good it has been banned but I think in work places people need a designated place to smoke. If not people who worrk night shifts and stuff like that are going on the street to smoke at night and god knows what could happen to them.
Pinkbanana
04-07-2007, 20:41
What's happening to human rights is what I want to know? Surely with freedom comes responsibility, and if that isnt the case, then the state has the right, I believe, to intervene for the good/protection of its people.
Why should someone have the right to tell us what we should and shouldn't do?! Maybe because smoking kills....?
I have been reading things on many other forums and alot of non, yes non, smokers think its not on either, that we should be dictated to I dont want to particularly live in a nanny state, but Im all for the quality of my life being improved.
This is the last comment I'll make on this thread, fine you want to smoke in a public place, and I wouldnt have so much of a problem with that, if the byproduct of smoking wasnt toxic, and thus could cause me serious harm.
I dont mind what people do in this world as long as it doesnt adversely affect others...:)
SarahWakefield
04-07-2007, 20:50
Well, imo...it should be the owners of pubs/restaurants etc who decide if they want there business a smoke or smoke free zone. Or there should be a smoking room and non smoking room.
Like you lot are saying why should we have to inhale your smoke, why should i have to freeze to enjoy a cigarette?!
samantha nixon
04-07-2007, 20:56
Like you lot are saying why should we have to inhale your smoke, why should i have to freeze to enjoy a cigarette?!
Because your the one who wants to kill yourself, or damage yourself
Like I say I have no problems with smokers, but they should go outside or in their own room
SarahWakefield
04-07-2007, 21:04
Yes, well I hope in the summer time you wont be sat outside the pub with all the smokers enjoying the sun because you have got the pub to stay in!
Do this quiz you may shock yourself:eek:
http://www.jeffreywigand.com/knowledgetest.php
I got 13/20. Got most of the country questions wrong.
I've not ventured into this thread before, looks like I've missed quite a bit.
I'll start from the top... I totally agree with the ban. Why should the non-smoking population have to suffer from other people's ignorance? Its a well-known fact that 80% of smoke is invisible so times that puff of smoke by five and you'll (hopefully) understand why I , and many others, do NOT want to be subjected to that.
Everybody has their right to do as they wish and if they want to poison themselves, and others, then thats their choice. Unlike drug and alcohol abuse, smoking has direct health consequences on other people. (Understand that I am not talking here about stealing to fund addiction etc.)
The car analogy... I don't understand what that is about. As I understand it, exhaust fumes have far fewer emitted toxins that cigarette smoke. There are 616 intentional additives in tobacco. I couldn't find how many additives are in petrol but I found this "for the most part, the use of additives is neither required or prohibited by the Regulations," meaning that there are very few additives in petrol. Which pretty much closes the matter for me. More additives in = more pollutants out. Which is worse?
Next... Like many other people have mentioned, the smell of smoke on clothes is awful. Now you may say "just wash them" but thats not the point. Often the smell of smoke doesn't come out if you've been in a very smoky place, which really annoys me when I've been out and spent good money on a new outfit only to have it ruined by ignorant people. Also, why should I have to sit next to a table of smokers when I'm having a meal in a pub? Its not a case of "go somewhere else." If I want to eat in a certain pub/restaurant then I should be allowed to without being suffocated by the people at the next table.
I know lung cancer has been mentioned but smoking causes lots of other cancers: mouth, nose and throat, larynx, esophagus, pancreas, bladder, stomach, myeloid leukemia, kidney. Plus heart disease, emphysema, bronchitis, airway infections, damage to the lungs, peptic ulcers, reduced fertility, the list goes on. I can't understand why anybody would want to subject their body to that all for a quick puff several times a day.
I forgot to add, on the money side, if people stop smoking then the government probably won't need to recover lost revenue from somewhere else because the NHS will be able to cope, making up for lost revenue (does that make sense??). There will be no need for NHS advertising on tv and fag packets, no treatment for smoking-related illnesses needed, definatly no need for the NHS to provide aids to help smokers quit etc.
I could go on with reasons why the ban is a good thing but I'll leave it there. I know this may come across as very strong but it's something that I really do detest. I apologise if I offend anyone :)
SarahWakefield
04-07-2007, 22:25
Seems like i'm the only smoker then? :rolleyes:
That what I posted didn't actually come from me, it was actually from a none smoker! Because he also put:
I am a non smoker who believes people can smoke where they like, and stop treating them like social lepers. Alcohol will be next, which is responsible for more illnesses than smoking btw.
Ooooh and in my opinion, ex smokers, are always the worst ones!
Im not saying that drinking necessarily harms others around you, but in general people are ill from drinking.
Seems anything I say just gets dismissed so ill say nothing else on the matter, apart from i think its totally wrong!
I'll say nothing more on the matter!
Im not saying that drinking necessarily harms others around you, but in general people are ill from drinking.
Seems anything I say just gets dismissed so ill say nothing else on the matter, :rolleyes: apart from i think its totally wrong!
Its not ok for you to breathe in smoke, but yet, it is ok for you to breathe in the crap that comes from cars? ...hmmmmm, ok then! Yes, yes....do go on, say what you said before about cars been made so there arent alot of whatever anymore, still dangerous and ive got to inhale that stuff! Do you see us complaning about that? Noooooooo!!!
It actually really really winds me up.
Tonight in the nightclub we went outside for a smoke and a non smoker was out complaining, erm hello....get back inside then, you wanted it like this so dont come outside chuffing complaining!
That's another thing.. Now that you can't smoke in clubs and pubs etc, there are alot of drunk people smoking outside in the street (For the places that haven't got a shelter), And it make me nervous walking in front of them, so I'll cross the road if possible, but it doesn't stop them making remarks. It's intimidating, particularly for teenagers and the elderly people.
This maybe the case, id feel intimidated too, but where should we go? We are outside, not polluting your air but yet still getting complaints?
I dont get it! ...I really dont! :hmm:
No actually, we werent congregated round the doorway, we were outside - where we are supossed to be!
Still wrong, you all keep saying you dont want to inhale second hand smoke, i get that!!
And im just saying that i get that you all dont want to inhale second hand smoke!
Im trying to make no point, im just saying theres no need to keep saying that. I get that none of you like inhaliling it.
Im trying to make no point, im just saying theres no need to keep saying that. I get that none of you like inhaliling it.
Excuse me, but I was just responding to your argument about car emissions being the same as inhaling second hand smoke...btw you have mentioned car emissions a number of times too.
This is a discussion thread....sooo naturally people are going to give their opinions, which may get repeated/reinforced....:rolleyes: Ofcourse if you keep putting forward your opinion, or making points, others are going to respond....Just because someone disagrees with your view point there's no need to be so dismissive of others’ views…
Im not meaning to sound nasty or anything like that, im just not for the idea.
Im not very good at wording things, so often it seems like im been negative.
I'll say nothing more on the matter!:rolleyes:
I'm sure if you can present a well reasoned factually based argument someone may listen
Why? Whatever I say about smoking according to you is wrong sooo i really dont see the point in saying anything else tbqh!
I'm a non smoker and I wont ever smoke as I think it is a dirty habbit, and from being around family who smoke I know what it actually does to your lungs and heart, but I also know how hard it is to stop.
I'm half and half as I think it's good that people aint allowed to smoke in places, as I went for a meal on sunday and it was great that their was no smoke. But to be honest in the first place I cant say I really noticed the smoke.
But im aslo againts it as a nurse was killed when she went out of the hospital for a fag, so her life was took just because she had to leave the building.
So I think it is good it has been banned but I think in work places people need a designated place to smoke. If not people who worrk night shifts and stuff like that are going on the street to smoke at night and god knows what could happen to them.
Well, imo...it should be the owners of pubs/restaurants etc who decide if they want there business a smoke or smoke free zone. Or there should be a smoking room and non smoking room.
Like you lot are saying why should we have to inhale your smoke, why should i have to freeze to enjoy a cigarette?!
Yes, well I hope in the summer time you wont be sat outside the pub with all the smokers enjoying the sun because you have got the pub to stay in!
Seems like i'm the only smoker then? :rolleyes:Exactly how many last posts are you going to make. Obviously more than have been heard at the Festival of Remembrance. I along with others have given you many oppurtunities to tell us why you have the right to deny us of the basic human right which is the right to life. The simple FACT is you cannot prove that passive smoking does not cause Lung Cancer, Emphasema, stroke, and loads of other disease which you have never even heard of. Fine if you want to commit suicide thats okay by me but do not murder the rest of us who are forced to breath in your poisons. For once the Goverment has got it right. You can kill yourself if you wish but do not force me or anyone else to inhale your toxins. Lock yourself in a nictine filled room if you want but dont pollute my air. Wake up and try to smell the coffee through the smoke. If you want to smell like an ashtray fine.:angry: You have yet to produce a reasoned argument as to why you should have the right to smoke:sick:
SarahWakefield
05-07-2007, 00:06
I was going to vote no but knew I'd get slated if I did :o
One person has given their opinion that they don't agree with it, and all have jumped on the bandwagon about it. Its no wonder no one has actually voted no.
Sorry, but thats just me.
Yeah, I wish I hadn't of said anything now with the manner of some people on here. :mad:
SarahWakefield
05-07-2007, 00:07
That what I posted didn't actually come from me, it was actually from a none smoker! Because he also put:
I am a non smoker who believes people can smoke where they like, and stop treating them like social lepers. Alcohol will be next, which is responsible for more illnesses than smoking btw.
Ooooh and in my opinion, ex smokers, are always the worst ones!
Im not saying that drinking necessarily harms others around you, but in general people are ill from drinking.
Seems anything I say just gets dismissed so ill say nothing else on the matter, apart from i think its totally wrong!
I'll say nothing more on the matter!
Im not saying that drinking necessarily harms others around you, but in general people are ill from drinking.
Seems anything I say just gets dismissed so ill say nothing else on the matter, :rolleyes: apart from i think its totally wrong!
Its not ok for you to breathe in smoke, but yet, it is ok for you to breathe in the crap that comes from cars? ...hmmmmm, ok then! Yes, yes....do go on, say what you said before about cars been made so there arent alot of whatever anymore, still dangerous and ive got to inhale that stuff! Do you see us complaning about that? Noooooooo!!!
It actually really really winds me up.
Tonight in the nightclub we went outside for a smoke and a non smoker was out complaining, erm hello....get back inside then, you wanted it like this so dont come outside chuffing complaining!
That's another thing.. Now that you can't smoke in clubs and pubs etc, there are alot of drunk people smoking outside in the street (For the places that haven't got a shelter), And it make me nervous walking in front of them, so I'll cross the road if possible, but it doesn't stop them making remarks. It's intimidating, particularly for teenagers and the elderly people.
This maybe the case, id feel intimidated too, but where should we go? We are outside, not polluting your air but yet still getting complaints?
I dont get it! ...I really dont! :hmm:
No actually, we werent congregated round the doorway, we were outside - where we are supossed to be!
Still wrong, you all keep saying you dont want to inhale second hand smoke, i get that!!
And im just saying that i get that you all dont want to inhale second hand smoke!
Im trying to make no point, im just saying theres no need to keep saying that. I get that none of you like inhaliling it.
Im trying to make no point, im just saying theres no need to keep saying that. I get that none of you like inhaliling it.
Excuse me, but I was just responding to your argument about car emissions being the same as inhaling second hand smoke...btw you have mentioned car emissions a number of times too.
This is a discussion thread....sooo naturally people are going to give their opinions, which may get repeated/reinforced....:rolleyes: Ofcourse if you keep putting forward your opinion, or making points, others are going to respond....Just because someone disagrees with your view point there's no need to be so dismissive of others’ views…
Im not meaning to sound nasty or anything like that, im just not for the idea.
Im not very good at wording things, so often it seems like im been negative.
I'll say nothing more on the matter!:rolleyes:
I'm sure if you can present a well reasoned factually based argument someone may listen
Why? Whatever I say about smoking according to you is wrong sooo i really dont see the point in saying anything else tbqh!
I'm a non smoker and I wont ever smoke as I think it is a dirty habbit, and from being around family who smoke I know what it actually does to your lungs and heart, but I also know how hard it is to stop.
I'm half and half as I think it's good that people aint allowed to smoke in places, as I went for a meal on sunday and it was great that their was no smoke. But to be honest in the first place I cant say I really noticed the smoke.
But im aslo againts it as a nurse was killed when she went out of the hospital for a fag, so her life was took just because she had to leave the building.
So I think it is good it has been banned but I think in work places people need a designated place to smoke. If not people who worrk night shifts and stuff like that are going on the street to smoke at night and god knows what could happen to them.
Well, imo...it should be the owners of pubs/restaurants etc who decide if they want there business a smoke or smoke free zone. Or there should be a smoking room and non smoking room.
Like you lot are saying why should we have to inhale your smoke, why should i have to freeze to enjoy a cigarette?!
Yes, well I hope in the summer time you wont be sat outside the pub with all the smokers enjoying the sun because you have got the pub to stay in!
Seems like i'm the only smoker then? :rolleyes:Exactly how many last posts are you going to make. Obviously more than have been heard at the Festival of Remembrance. I along with others have given you many oppurtunities to tell us why you have the right to deny us of the basic human right which is the right to life. The simple FACT is you cannot prove that passive smoking does not cause Lung Cancer, Emphasema, stroke, and loads of other disease which you have never even heard of. Fine if you want to commit suicide thats okay by me but do not murder the rest of us who are forced to breath in your poisons. For once the Goverment has got it right. You can kill yourself if you wish but do not force me or anyone else to inhale your toxins. Lock yourself in a nictine filled room if you want but dont pollute my air. Wake up and try to smell the coffee through the smoke. If you want to smell like an ashtray fine.:angry: You have yet to produce a reasoned argument as to why you should have the right to smoke:sick:
I actually find you very rude!
[QUOTE=JoJo;521339]I was going to vote no but knew I'd get slated if I did :o
One person has given their opinion that they don't agree with it, and all have jumped on the bandwagon about it. Its no wonder no one has actually voted no.
Sorry, but thats just me.
I actually find you very rude!. :rolleyes: Is this the face of concern
[Yeah, I wish I hadn't of said anything now with the manner of some people on here. :mad:Yes unfortunately the FACTS speak for themselves and you despite all you posts have singularly faile to come up with a reasonable argument for smoking
SarahWakefield
05-07-2007, 00:10
I don't have to explain my reasons for smoking to anyone.
But seeing as though you ask, I actually enjoy smoking. I don't smoke that many not even 10-a-day, but when I have one I enjoy it.
That what I posted didn't actually come from me, it was actually from a none smoker! Because he also put:
I am a non smoker who believes people can smoke where they like, and stop treating them like social lepers. Alcohol will be next, which is responsible for more illnesses than smoking btw.
Ooooh and in my opinion, ex smokers, are always the worst ones!
Im not saying that drinking necessarily harms others around you, but in general people are ill from drinking.
Seems anything I say just gets dismissed so ill say nothing else on the matter, apart from i think its totally wrong!
I'll say nothing more on the matter!
Im not saying that drinking necessarily harms others around you, but in general people are ill from drinking.
Seems anything I say just gets dismissed so ill say nothing else on the matter, :rolleyes: apart from i think its totally wrong!
Its not ok for you to breathe in smoke, but yet, it is ok for you to breathe in the crap that comes from cars? ...hmmmmm, ok then! Yes, yes....do go on, say what you said before about cars been made so there arent alot of whatever anymore, still dangerous and ive got to inhale that stuff! Do you see us complaning about that? Noooooooo!!!
It actually really really winds me up.
Tonight in the nightclub we went outside for a smoke and a non smoker was out complaining, erm hello....get back inside then, you wanted it like this so dont come outside chuffing complaining!
That's another thing.. Now that you can't smoke in clubs and pubs etc, there are alot of drunk people smoking outside in the street (For the places that haven't got a shelter), And it make me nervous walking in front of them, so I'll cross the road if possible, but it doesn't stop them making remarks. It's intimidating, particularly for teenagers and the elderly people.
This maybe the case, id feel intimidated too, but where should we go? We are outside, not polluting your air but yet still getting complaints?
I dont get it! ...I really dont! :hmm:
No actually, we werent congregated round the doorway, we were outside - where we are supossed to be!
Still wrong, you all keep saying you dont want to inhale second hand smoke, i get that!!
And im just saying that i get that you all dont want to inhale second hand smoke!
Im trying to make no point, im just saying theres no need to keep saying that. I get that none of you like inhaliling it.
Im trying to make no point, im just saying theres no need to keep saying that. I get that none of you like inhaliling it.
Excuse me, but I was just responding to your argument about car emissions being the same as inhaling second hand smoke...btw you have mentioned car emissions a number of times too.
This is a discussion thread....sooo naturally people are going to give their opinions, which may get repeated/reinforced....:rolleyes: Ofcourse if you keep putting forward your opinion, or making points, others are going to respond....Just because someone disagrees with your view point there's no need to be so dismissive of others’ views…
Im not meaning to sound nasty or anything like that, im just not for the idea.
Im not very good at wording things, so often it seems like im been negative.
I'll say nothing more on the matter!:rolleyes:
I'm sure if you can present a well reasoned factually based argument someone may listen
Why? Whatever I say about smoking according to you is wrong sooo i really dont see the point in saying anything else tbqh!
I'm a non smoker and I wont ever smoke as I think it is a dirty habbit, and from being around family who smoke I know what it actually does to your lungs and heart, but I also know how hard it is to stop.
I'm half and half as I think it's good that people aint allowed to smoke in places, as I went for a meal on sunday and it was great that their was no smoke. But to be honest in the first place I cant say I really noticed the smoke.
But im aslo againts it as a nurse was killed when she went out of the hospital for a fag, so her life was took just because she had to leave the building.
So I think it is good it has been banned but I think in work places people need a designated place to smoke. If not people who worrk night shifts and stuff like that are going on the street to smoke at night and god knows what could happen to them.
Well, imo...it should be the owners of pubs/restaurants etc who decide if they want there business a smoke or smoke free zone. Or there should be a smoking room and non smoking room.
Like you lot are saying why should we have to inhale your smoke, why should i have to freeze to enjoy a cigarette?!
Yes, well I hope in the summer time you wont be sat outside the pub with all the smokers enjoying the sun because you have got the pub to stay in!
Seems like i'm the only smoker then? :rolleyes:Exactly how many last posts are you going to make. Obviously more than have been heard at the Festival of Remembrance. I along with others have given you many oppurtunities to tell us why you have the right to deny us of the basic human right which is the right to life. The simple FACT is you cannot prove that passive smoking does not cause Lung Cancer, Emphasema, stroke, and loads of other disease which you have never even heard of. Fine if you want to commit suicide thats okay by me but do not murder the rest of us who are forced to breath in your poisons. For once the Goverment has got it right. You can kill yourself if you wish but do not force me or anyone else to inhale your toxins. Lock yourself in a nictine filled room if you want but dont pollute my air. Wake up and try to smell the coffee through the smoke. If you want to smell like an ashtray fine.:angry: You have yet to produce a reasoned argument as to why you should have the right to smoke:sick:
I actually find you very rude!
I dont think so. Im sorry if the truth hurts
I don't have to explain my reasons for smoking to anyone.
But seeing as though you ask, I actually enjoy smoking. I don't smoke that many not even 10-a-day, but when I have one I enjoy it.
Im not asking you to explain YOUR reaons for smoking. Thats your choice. All I am asking as are others is what gives you the right to poison others by your addiction. Now that is a simple question. Surely you can answer that. Im NOT being RUDE but why should I run the risk of Fatal Ilness to allow you to smoke in a confined space whist I am enjoying a meal, drink or a nightclub. If i walked in spraying aresenic all over the place would you say I have a right to do it
SarahWakefield
05-07-2007, 00:17
Well, thats my opinion, like you have yours - I have mine.
Well, thats my opinion, like you have yours - I have mine.Well opinions do not give you rights. With rights come responsibilities
SarahWakefield
05-07-2007, 00:20
Well, thats my opinion, like you have yours - I have mine.Well opinions do not give you rights. With rights come responsibilities
I wasnt actually saying that to the post you have just done, it was to the one before, I forgot to quote it.
Well, thats my opinion, like you have yours - I have mine.Well opinions do not give you rights. With rights come responsibilities
I wasnt actually saying that to the post you have just done, it was to the one before, I forgot to quote it.Whatever
you have failed to address anything I have put to you. There is little point in continuing this conversation with someone such as you. This is my FINAL post to you on the subject. I believe I have proven my case and can supply you with any facts you need or contradict any lies the smoking lobby put forward. Obviously you do not deal with facts so any attempt at reasonable discussion would be pointless.
Smoke away if thats your wish, dispute the evidence thats your right.
SarahWakefield
05-07-2007, 00:32
Well, thats my opinion, like you have yours - I have mine.Well opinions do not give you rights. With rights come responsibilities
I wasnt actually saying that to the post you have just done, it was to the one before, I forgot to quote it.Whatever
you have failed to address anything I have put to you. There is little point in continuing this conversation with someone such as you. This is my FINAL post to you on the subject. I believe I have proven my case and can supply you with any facts you need or contradict any lies the smoking lobby put forward. Obviously you do not deal with facts so any attempt at reasonable discussion would be pointless.
Smoke away if thats your wish, dispute the evidence thats your right.
Someone such as me? Meaning what? I'm scum because I smoke you can bet.
When I first clicked into this topic it says at the top: Is the smoking ban in England a good or a bad thing? I decided to vote that it's a bad thing, obviously because i'm biast because I smoke.
But because I cant give an argument to as why I think its a bad thing I get made to be the bad person because I smoke.
There is nothing I can say to a non-smoker about been able to smoke in pubs/cafe's etc, because anything I would say is unacceptable to a non smoker.
SarahWakefield
05-07-2007, 00:45
And another thing that is totally unacceptable:
My grandma needs a hip replacement, the NHS won't do it because she smokes.
Sooo, there's been a terrible accident involving 2 cars let's say. One person is seriously hurt and needs emergency surgery.
"Mr Smith do you smoke?"
"Yes Doctor, I do"
"Oh sorry then, we will have to leave you to die"
I know that's nothing to do with the smoking ban, but its something else that's to do with smoking which is totally wrong.
And another thing that is totally unacceptable:
My grandma needs a hip replacement, the NHS won't do it because she smokes.
Sooo, there's been a terrible accident involving 2 cars let's say. One person is seriously hurt and needs emergency surgery.
"Mr Smith do you smoke?"
"Yes Doctor, I do"
"Oh sorry then, we will have to leave you to die"
I know that's nothing to do with the smoking ban, but its something else that's to do with smoking which is totally wrong.
I think that's a bit extreme. Two people need a liver, but one needs it because he's an alcoholic. My moneys on the other person getting it. Even thought they don't admit it, discrimination will take place
And another thing that is totally unacceptable:
My grandma needs a hip replacement, the NHS won't do it because she smokes.
Sooo, there's been a terrible accident involving 2 cars let's say. One person is seriously hurt and needs emergency surgery.
"Mr Smith do you smoke?"
"Yes Doctor, I do"
"Oh sorry then, we will have to leave you to die"
I know that's nothing to do with the smoking ban, but its something else that's to do with smoking which is totally wrong.
I think that's a bit extreme. Two people need a liver, but one needs it because he's an alcoholic. My moneys on the other person getting it. Even thought they don't admit it, discrimination will take place
Pecisely. Two people need a lung tansplant who gets it. The smoker who has inflicted it upon themselves or the non smoker who was poisoned by passive smoking. No prizes for guessing the correct answer. Now i wont go into thmorality of the decision. I may sound bitter but I am alive today because earlier this year I had a stroke and was told by the consultant had I been a smoker I would have died. I have asthma because I worked in confined spaces full of smokers. Am I bitter. You can bet your Iron Lung Im bitter.
SarahWakefield
05-07-2007, 01:11
So everyone is just against everything I say? Great stuff.
So everyone is just against everything I say? Great stuff.
I don't think anyone has anything against you personally. Looks like the views on the thread support the poll.
SarahWakefield
05-07-2007, 01:19
...Hmmmm, just looks like we will have to get on with it I suppose!
I don't have to explain my reasons for smoking to anyone.
Hmmm, lets look at this from a different angle. We've all justified our reasons for the smoking ban (read back through the thread if you don't accept that). What are your reasons? So far, you have failed to come up with a reason to support your 'right' to smoke, except that it's in your 'human rights.' People (especially Alan) are getting wound up and angry because they have been affected in some way by ignorant smokers who can't see what harm they are causing to themselves and others. And you seem to be one of those.
Nobody is against what you are saying, everyone is just annoyed that you can't justify your actions when all of us on here have. You can't enter a debate and say "This is what I think, I don't care what you lot have to say, I don't have to justify myself to anyone."
RE your grandma: there's a good reason why the surgeons won't operate. Its difficult to ventilate a smoker during surgery, especially if they have been smoking for years and have lung damage. Would you turn round and sue the doctors when your grandma dies from respiratory problems during surgery?
RE the accident: a doctor's main priority is to assess the situation and decide what treatment is required (including surgery). I'm sure if someone was dying in A&E the doctor wouldn't stop to ask if he was a smoker. You're just being pedantic now.
I don't have to explain my reasons for smoking to anyone.
People (especially Alan) are getting wound up and angry because they have been affected in some way by ignorant smokers who can't see what harm they are causing to themselves and others. And you seem to be one of those.
Im angry yes. Wound up no.:)
crystalsea
05-07-2007, 13:35
Thought I'd move the talks on to other aspects of the knock-on effect of the smoking ban:
Okay so its smoke free in enclosed spaces - but what makes me laugh is all the propaganda about the ban will make people give up smoking, but really this will only effect those who really want to give up and this will aid them because they won't need to stay away from those places assuming of course that they broke the association between drink and smoking.
It won't stop more people from not smoking in the future because teenagers will see more smoking out in the street, outside in pub gardens, anywhere else you can think of etc. etc. etc., which of course will seem pretty cool for example, a network of people bonding outside for a smoke.
My only other real concern is will it drive more smoking around children in the home, because its not the effects of the smoking on their minds but I won't go to the pub because its raining, so I'll have a drink and a smoke indoors. (I might add here that I am not a parent - incase this causes an issue on this forum)
As it happens apart from the platform at the station, the ban hasn't effected my smoking at all. A number of my friends don't smoke, so I usually go outside for a smoke if we go out; I am past the clubbing stage, the resturants around my way had been non-smoking for many years. And being a dog owner, am quite used to smoking in all weathers, rain, snow, hail etc. I am probably not the only one either.
So out of interest and debate, has anyone got any other points to add both for and against my own personal viewpoint.
Okay so its smoke free in enclosed spaces - but what makes me laugh is all the propaganda about the ban will make people give up smoking, but really this will only effect those who really want to give up and this will aid them because they won't need to stay away from those places assuming of course that they broke the association between drink and smoking.
It won't stop more people from not smoking in the future because teenagers will see more smoking out in the street, outside in pub gardens, anywhere else you can think of etc. etc. etc., which of course will seem pretty cool for example, a network of people bonding outside for a smoke.
Maybe the inconvenience of having to go stand outside in all weathers may make people consider giving up. I know if I smoked I would consider it easier to give up completely rather than having to go outside away from friends/family for a smoke.
On the teenagers front - a lot of teenagers see smoking as cool and most who smoke have their first fag at school (you only have to stand outside the school gates to see little year 7's having a sneaky fag before they go home) so I'm not convinced that it will encourage youngsters to smoke. I do agree with you about the bonding thing though. The smokers can all stand outside in the rain moaning about how they should be allowed to smoke where they want.
If its good enough for Ireland its good enough for England :)
I live in Scotland where we have had a ban on smoking in enclosed public places since March 2006.
I find it much more pleasent to visit pubs and resturants now, and I am grateful not to have to wait ages for a 'non-smoking' table as in the past.
I don't smoke and neither do any of my family, friends or colleagues. I read a couple of days ago that 1/3 of the UK adult population smoke. Not in my vicinity they don't - for which I am grateful, cigarette smoke used to induce my asthma.
The only smokers I see are the ones that stand outside the pubs, shopping centres etc. It is horrible having to pass them and their stinking smoke.
I live in Scotland where we have had a ban on smoking in enclosed public places since March 2006.
My wife and I are regular visitors to Scotland. The village pub we tend to call our local was always full of smokers. This didnt matter whether there were children in the pub or not. These were regular customers who we had known for years. They almost seemed to chain smoke lighting fag after fag. I remember saying that if they can make the ban work here it will work anywhere. We have been back numerous times since (Roll on August:cheer: ) and the same regulars are at the bar. They go outside for their fag and back in for their Pint of Belhaven Best. What we have noticed though is they do not seem to smoke as much as they used to. It used to be two fags per pint now its two pints per fag:)
Im not sure quite what you are saying, but every one is entitled to an opinion....I am not jumping on any bandwagon here....I have my own mind and opinion on the subject, thank you.
I have merely been responding to the comments of others, in a discussion forum.
No need for the thank you at the end of that cheers PB. I'm not a child and don't need to be spoken to like one.
General remark now: the question of this poll was, do you think the smoking ban is a good or bad thing - SarahW gave her opinion, in the thread, that she thought it was a bad thing. I was merely commenting on the fact that at the time of posting this, 5 people (not including myself as I have still absteined from voting) have voted its a bad thing, yet only Sarah had given her reasons why. And following on from that, a few members (and I'm not mentioning names, having a go at anyone, infringing on peoples human rights to reply or anything else here, so this post is not to be taken as such) have quoted every reply, thanked each others posts etc and yes that is allowed, but for me, to read these responses and comments, read it like bullying. People don't agree - thats fair enough, we are ALL human, we ALL have our opinions on things, as I've previously said, if we all think the same, life would be very very boring, but at the same time, aren't we allowed to respect each others opinions also?
The question was, is it a good thing or a bad thing, not is smoking good for you or bad for you. We ALL know, including smokers, that smoking causes lung cancer and many other fatal illnesses, to those who smoke and those who don't. No one has ever questioned that fact.
I have seen and am experiencing seeing close friends and family with cancer (my great uncle is terminal and waiting for the white light as we speak, and a very close friend is currently deciding whether or not to carry on with treatment, having been told that this time (the third), its no longer working. She is mid 30's, has two young children, is teetotal and has never smoked.) so I don't need to be told what the effects of smoking are (and neither of these examples I have given you ever smoked btw), but I still see both sides of whether or not the ban is a good or bad thing.
As an employer, we have been told that if any of our employees are caught smoking by officials, on our premises, even after we have told them that they aren't to smoke either on the premises or within any work vehicles, WE, the company will be fined £2,000 whilst our employee will be fined £50. Is this fair on us, when we have an unmanned workshop and my husband and I aren't there 24/7 keeping watch on what our employee is doing?!
Like I say, I am not going to get embroiled in an argument about whether or not smoking is good or bad for you, or whether any other pollutants in the world cause death or whatever. But when you know that people are scared to post their opinion in this thread, for fear of what is going to be asked/thrown or whatever at them, just because their opinion differs from another, is very very sad.
.:SpIcYsPy:.
07-07-2007, 17:20
I think it's a good thing for myself and my health (never touched a cig. and never want to :))but I do think that it's bad for the smokers who have to stand outside and smoke in such bad weather and have no will (thats the word right?..) to quit. You can't blame them everyone's different but I do also think that's bad too because even though smokers are outside you could be still be breathing in other smoker's smoke as you pass them. This sort of makes it how it was before.
I voted 'yes' because afterall it's my health and I'm not seen much outside and more inside most the time anyways!
I think it's a good thing for myself and my health (never touched a cig. and never want to :))but I do think that it's bad for the smokers who have to stand outside and smoke in such bad weather and have no will (thats the word right?..) to quit.
Thats too bad for the smokers but if they make the choice to continue poisoning themselves what harm will a bit of rain do them or cold or snow or minus 10 temperatures. Flu and pneumonia have a cure Lung Cancer is normally FATAL
.:SpIcYsPy:.
08-07-2007, 09:53
Hmm good point, obviously didn't think of it like that. :)
Pinkbanana
08-07-2007, 23:12
Im not sure quite what you are saying, but every one is entitled to an opinion....I am not jumping on any bandwagon here....I have my own mind and opinion on the subject, thank you.
I have merely been responding to the comments of others, in a discussion forum.
No need for the thank you at the end of that cheers PB. I'm not a child and don't need to be spoken to like one.
I am full aware you are not a child (and likewise I could comment on you putting cheers at the end of your sentence). I was just taken a back, by your comment, and actually rather offended, that people (included me) have jumped on (to quote you) 'a bandwagon' for sharing the same opinions. I felt that was an insulting and unfair comment.
General remark now: the question of this poll was, do you think the smoking ban is a good or bad thing - SarahW gave her opinion, in the thread, that she thought it was a bad thing. I was merely commenting on the fact that at the time of posting this, 5 people (not including myself as I have still absteined from voting) have voted its a bad thing, yet only Sarah had given her reasons why. And following on from that, a few members (and I'm not mentioning names, having a go at anyone, infringing on peoples human rights to reply or anything else here, so this post is not to be taken as such) have quoted every reply, thanked each others posts etc and yes that is allowed, but for me, to read these responses and comments, read it like bullying. People don't agree - thats fair enough, we are ALL human, we ALL have our opinions on things, as I've previously said, if we all think the same, life would be very very boring, but at the same time, aren't we allowed to respect each others opinions also?
I would like to know in what way I was not respecting another poster's comments that I disagreed with. I cant see in any of my posts were I was being disrepectful TBH. I have been responding on this thread to other people's comments, and conversely other people were commenting on mine. Thus as far as Im aware engaging in a lively 'debate' and not bullying anyone (I take offence at the word 'bullying' being used in this instance).
Moreover, I did after a while on realising that we were starting to go round in circles withdraw from the debate. As I have said earlier on this thread pertaining to smoking, I believe people have free will and can do whatever they want as long as it doesnt adversely impact on others.:)
Good news for all you smokers
Council error stubs out smoke ban
Dax Robateau put up "Welcome to Smoke-on-Trent" posters
People are still lighting up in Stoke-on-Trent's pubs after a bureaucratic mistake over the ban on smoking in enclosed public spaces.
On-the-spot fines cannot yet be issued to smokers flouting the 1 July ban because of "late changes in technical bits of legislation", the council said.
Landlord Dax Robateau has put cheeky "Welcome to Smoke-on-Trent" posters in The Smithfield pub in Hanley
The authority said it would be able to issue fines from 16 July.
It said it was still able to take action against pubs or clubs where people were smoking and would be able to take retrospective action against any smokers caught flouting the ban.
'Bit miffed'
A spokesman said: "People are obliged to comply with a speeding restriction, regardless if there's a police speed gun nearby.
"The whole government advice and council advice is to advise and educate people in the early days.
"(But) they can still be reported and action can still be taken against them."
Pam Rowland is still enforcing the smoking ban in the Greyhound Inn
Mr Robateau said: "I found out about the loophole when it was in the local paper yesterday and I was just a bit miffed.
"I checked it out and found out it was true so I thought we might as well tell people that the law wasn't enforceable."
But one publican said she did not believe the council would implement the ban retrospectively.
Pam Rowland, landlady of the Greyhound Inn, in Penkhull, said: "It's sort of fun to flout the law and I don't think the council will do much about it because at the end of the day it's their mistake."
She added that she was still enforcing the ban and that most pubs were doing the same thing.
"I think most people are actually sticking with it. It could only happen in Stoke."
The council said the mistake was due to its belief that the city's elected mayor Mark Meredith had the power to delegate the authorisation of the ban to his director of community services.
It said late legal changes meant it realised too late that it would have to be enforced by the licensing and consumer protection committee instead.
It said the committee would delegate powers for officers to issue on-the-spot fines at a meeting on Monday.
So there you go - Enjoy
From what I've seen the ban has been successful around my area. I saw some hairdressers taking a fag break away from the shop (which they left open and unattended) today but apart from that I've not seen anybody smoking around town.
All of the local pubs bar one have seen a huge surge in customers and meals since the ban which is excellent for the local economy. In Weatherspoons they took £1000 more than they usually do just on the first day of the ban. Thats a heck of a lot of money for the small town I live in :thumbsup:
Richie_lecturer
14-07-2007, 21:43
Good news for all you smokers
Council error stubs out smoke ban
Dax Robateau put up "Welcome to Smoke-on-Trent" posters
People are still lighting up in Stoke-on-Trent's pubs after a bureaucratic mistake over the ban on smoking in enclosed public spaces.
On-the-spot fines cannot yet be issued to smokers flouting the 1 July ban because of "late changes in technical bits of legislation", the council said.
Landlord Dax Robateau has put cheeky "Welcome to Smoke-on-Trent" posters in The Smithfield pub in Hanley
The authority said it would be able to issue fines from 16 July.
It said it was still able to take action against pubs or clubs where people were smoking and would be able to take retrospective action against any smokers caught flouting the ban.
'Bit miffed'
A spokesman said: "People are obliged to comply with a speeding restriction, regardless if there's a police speed gun nearby.
"The whole government advice and council advice is to advise and educate people in the early days.
"(But) they can still be reported and action can still be taken against them."
Pam Rowland is still enforcing the smoking ban in the Greyhound Inn
Mr Robateau said: "I found out about the loophole when it was in the local paper yesterday and I was just a bit miffed.
"I checked it out and found out it was true so I thought we might as well tell people that the law wasn't enforceable."
But one publican said she did not believe the council would implement the ban retrospectively.
Pam Rowland, landlady of the Greyhound Inn, in Penkhull, said: "It's sort of fun to flout the law and I don't think the council will do much about it because at the end of the day it's their mistake."
She added that she was still enforcing the ban and that most pubs were doing the same thing.
"I think most people are actually sticking with it. It could only happen in Stoke."
The council said the mistake was due to its belief that the city's elected mayor Mark Meredith had the power to delegate the authorisation of the ban to his director of community services.
It said late legal changes meant it realised too late that it would have to be enforced by the licensing and consumer protection committee instead.
It said the committee would delegate powers for officers to issue on-the-spot fines at a meeting on Monday.
So there you go - Enjoy
Just shows the land of Stoke has gone to pot, or should that be pottery? :cool:
Good, and this comes from a smoker. Its made me think about quitting and i've cut down already. But overall I don't think it will work. I can see people in clubs sneaking off for one somewhere, I think it will all fall through to be honest..
chris.. I thought the same too when smoke ban came here nearly 3 years ago now but we have kept it working well here and as a smoker I am fully in favour of it all.. I found it really hard to sit in a pub in germany cause it was so smokey and I ended up going outside most of the time. I welcome smoking ban everywhere.. it is much better drinking enviornment and you get to met loads of new people when you nip out for one
I think the ban is a good idea, as it seems unfair to make those that are choosing not to smoke find somewhere else to go so as to not breath in smoke, because it is the smoker's choice to smoke.
I am just back from a fortnight in France - it seems that (almost) everryone smokes there!
From smoke free Scotland to fuggy France was quite a culture shock!
I really appreciate the lack of smoking in Scottish pubs resturants and sports arenas etc even more.
I couldn't beleive the number of people smoking underneath the wooden rollarcoaster at Parc Astrix - there were signs up but there were universally ignored.
I heard something on the news this morning that totally shocked me.. some guy was shot in the face for telling people in a night club in London that they can't smoke anymore.
it is all here: http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1276684,00.html
I was totally shocked that this happened
DaVeyWaVey
24-07-2007, 12:56
Absolutely disgusting!! Who would do such a thing like that?! I hope he recovers and those men are caught.
Adults should be banned from smoking in cars when children are passengers, the new head of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health has said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8104062.stm
Thoughts?
I personally think this is taking the smoking ban one step too far. How would this even be enforced? Flashing blue lights when the cops see you drive by with a fag in one hand and a kid in the back?
I think it would be a very good idea if there was actually a viable way to enforce it.
StarsOfCCTV
17-06-2009, 17:55
Surely smoking in your car should be illegal anyway because you are using one hand to smoke and one hand to drive.
My dad has done both for almost 30 years in cars, LGV and HGVs and never had an accident.
I don't think it says anything in the highway code about not smoking and driving at the same time.
StarsOfCCTV
17-06-2009, 18:45
Hmm..I think it should.
It just seems dangerous to me. Especially if a person driving a manual, having to change gears constantly and if they drop the cigarette surely they would get distracted? But the same logic applies to eating and talking on mobiles. - incidentally also hands-free, as worse as hand-held mobile.
Its not specifically cigarettes that annoy me. A person should have their whole concentration on the road. There's always places people can pull over or stop if they want to do any of these things.
Pinkbanana
17-06-2009, 19:09
Adults should be banned from smoking in cars when children are passengers, the new head of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health has said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8104062.stm
Thoughts?
I personally think this is taking the smoking ban one step too far. How would this even be enforced? Flashing blue lights when the cops see you drive by with a fag in one hand and a kid in the back?
I think it would be very difficult to police if it did come into force. To me though, I would say it was common sense not to smoke and drive... also smoking in a confined space with anyone, let alone small children imo is just selfish... I for one dont want to have to inhale someone else's poisonous fumes... Sadly, their children wont get much say in the matter.
CrazyLea
17-06-2009, 21:03
It just seems dangerous to me. Especially if a person driving a manual, having to change gears constantly and if they drop the cigarette surely they would get distracted? But the same logic applies to eating and talking on mobiles. - incidentally also hands-free, as worse as hand-held mobile.
My mate dropped her fag while changing gears, lucky for her another of our mates was in the car with her so could grab it... could have easily have caused an accident or fire... with her searching for it and stuff.
I think its a good idea, I mean its different around the house, in the car your in a very confined space
CrazyLea
17-06-2009, 21:50
And if they are older children then they can walk out of a room.. can't decide to walk out of a car lol..
Exactly! lol
I mean I know it has windows and its not the same thing, you can inflict harm on your own body but that doesnt give the right to do it to someone else
I do agree with you on kids not having to breathe in smoke, I hated being in the car when I was a child.
But what concerns me is how would this even be enforceable? Smoking in public is easy for cops to slap you with a ticket but on a highway it's more difficult.
Thing is though, where will it end?! Not necessarily talking about smoking, but soon, we won't be able to talk to passengers in the car for fear of distraction, won't be able to change the radio channel because we aren't concentrating on the road - what next?!
Chloe O'brien
18-06-2009, 23:29
You won't be able to open a window if your too hot, or put on the air conditioning as that will be an offence.
Yeah I see your point but isnt this more bout smoking and health
di marco
19-06-2009, 10:26
its a good idea, i hate being in cars with people smoking. and seeing as your not allowed to eat while youre driving cos its dangerous why should smoking be any different. dont know how theyd be able to enforce it though
The same as using a mobile phone whilst driving - if the police see you do it, they will stop and shoot you (only joking)
And the same with seatbeats as well!
theres loads of things that cant be mointored all the time, but if you get caught its bad luck so its best not to, its one of those things
I know I tend to see ploice cars driving around a bit
Yeah I see your point but isnt this more bout smoking and health
It is, but its also about freedom of being able to do what you want to do in your own car/life - freedom of choice, and the democratic way etc. When I smoked, if I had passengers, including my children, I didn't smoke in the car, simple as, but if I'm on my own in the car, why the hell shouldn't I have a ciggie?! I've paid however much money for my car and if I want to smoke in it, then I blimming well will! If no one else is in my car, then I'm not harming them or their health!
Its not actually against the law to eat or drink at the wheel, but it CAN be viewed as driving without due care and attention, and if you had an accident whilst doing so, then you would be charged as such and if the Police felt that your driving was impaired whilst eating, then you could be charged and fined also.
Pinkbanana
20-06-2009, 10:55
Yeah I see your point but isnt this more bout smoking and health
It is, but its also about freedom of being able to do what you want to do in your own car/life - freedom of choice, and the democratic way etc. When I smoked, if I had passengers, including my children, I didn't smoke in the car, simple as, but if I'm on my own in the car, why the hell shouldn't I have a ciggie?! I've paid however much money for my car and if I want to smoke in it, then I blimming well will! If no one else is in my car, then I'm not harming them or their health!
Its not actually against the law to eat or drink at the wheel, but it CAN be viewed as driving without due care and attention, and if you had an accident whilst doing so, then you would be charged as such and if the Police felt that your driving was impaired whilst eating, then you could be charged and fined also.
I agree that we are living in an increasingly nanny like state, where the Gov is poking it's nose increasingly more and more into peep's everyday life....
However, I think the whole smoking in a car thing was about a doctor saying it was bad for children to be out in a position where they are in a confined space, with someone smoking... I have to agree, its common sense NOT to smoke in a car with your children in there, just as it's not really fair to smoke anywhere around non smokers... I really dont want, and think I have to right, to be in a public area and not breathe in these poisoned fumes... but to actually ban people from smoking in the car, I disagree with.
Smokers working at a district council must clock out when they nip outside for a fag. So is it fair that employees who smoke do it in their own time?
They're a familiar sight in British towns and cities, huddled at the foot of office blocks under wisps of smoke.
These are the outsiders, both figuratively and literally, who grab a few minutes away from their desk or the shop floor to have a cigarette.
The number of pavement puffers swelled with the demise of the office smoking room when legislation in Scotland in 2006 and the rest of the UK a year later spelt the end of smoking in enclosed public places.
But should they be paying back the time they spend away from their work?
For hundreds of staff at Breckland Council in Norfolk, that is now the reality. On Monday, the district council began a regime of compulsory clocking in and out for smoking breaks, thereby joining some other employers in the public and private sectors who have done the same.
William Nunn, leader of the council, says the move was not initiated by staff resentful that colleagues kept deserting their desk, but by smokers themselves.
"This all came about when staff contacted our HR team because they were confused about what the policy was on clocking out for smoking breaks. Some of the smokers were concerned because many of them, 54% it turned out, clocked out."
[I] What does the law say?
"Employers are not obligated to allow employees to have any smoking breaks at all, and they are legally required to prevent employees from smoking in the workplace. Generally, employees working a shift of six hours or more are entitled to a 20-minute unpaid break during their shift. The entitlement is to one break only and you can normally take this away from your workstation. However, there is an exemption to this where there is a requirement for a permanent presence."
Peter Done
Peninsula, an employment law consultancy [/I/
All 280 staff were surveyed about it and expressed a desire to formalise the policy so that smokers had to clock out for breaks, in the same way that staff would if they nipped out to Tesco, says Mr Nunn. That doesn't apply to coffee breaks because the kitchens are in the building.
"I would suggest that all staff take breaks. The difference is that smokers are taking additional breaks. Everyone, non-smokers and smokers, goes for a wander or for a coffee and we're not suggesting that they should be clocked. We have a policy around personal internet use - that it should only be in free time - and there are undoubtedly breaches of that, like in any company."
There was no suggestion the previous system was being abused, he says, and there have been no objections from the council's 53 smokers. Indeed, many have said they prefer to clock out so their time out is not frowned upon by resentful non-smoking colleagues.
'Tensions over breaks'
The length and frequency of the smoking breaks his employees take varies, says Mr Nunn. Some say they have a couple a day for 4-5 minutes, but others say they have three or four which could last up to 20 minutes if they have clocked out and had a good chat.
On average, a smoker spends an hour each day on a fag break, according to research published last month by www.onepoll.com, who contacted 2,500 adult smokers in the UK. This was usually made up of four 15-minute breaks a day, or a year over their working life.
Smokers have to make up the time taken for cigarette breaks
But a previous study in 2003, by employment law firm Croner Consulting, estimated that it was more likely to be three five-minute breaks a day, making about eight working days a year. The Leicestershire firm said it would receive up to 100 calls a week from bosses worried about what to do about it.
One company head who found smoking to be particularly divisive was Robert King, who managed his own security company in Sheffield, which employed between five and 15 people during his five years as the director.
"There was serious tension at one point when one member of staff, a smoker, didn't respect the rights of the non-smokers because as part of a group of employees performing a task, he would go out for fag, which was disruptive to the team."
The solidarity of street smokers A clocking-on system would have addressed these kind of problems because it makes smokers accountable to themselves, says the 46-year-old former smoker, who believes too many smokers think only about their next cigarette and not the team.
"It's frustrating as a boss because you are virtually powerless. Everyone has a right, if they choose to smoke, but where that right ends is the issue that is contentious within business."
Clocking off is another example of employers making life as difficult as possible for smokers, says Simon Clark, the director of pro-smoking lobby group Forest. It's unfair to penalise these breaks but not others involving coffee or Facebook.
"Many smokers believe having the occasional cigarette allows them to refocus. It's a moment of contemplation that refreshes them when they get back to their desks.
"Everyone gets through the day in different ways. Some take coffee breaks, others go out for a cigarette."
Breaks of any form are absolutely essential, says Cary Cooper, a professor of organisational psychology and health at Lancaster University Especially for British workers, who he says slog the longest hours in the EU, often in front of a computer, but are among the least productive.
Continue reading the main story
'Smokers have the right idea'
Smokers are doing the right thing by taking breaks People should take breaks every 15-20 minutes while doing intense screen work, because concentration flags But some individuals may take advantage and slack off It can be distracting if a colleague is disappearing every so often, so it's important non-smokers get up and stretch too As long as people maintain a good attitude to work and get the job done, employers shouldn't worry about smoking breaks Clare Evans, time management expert
"People are working longer and harder than ever before. Quite a lot of people are about to lose their jobs in the public sector and this will impact on the private sector also. Fewer people are going to be doing more work. Given this scenario, breaks are more important than ever before."
Fag breaks give smokers the opportunity to chat and socialise, which can help the business, he says.
"If most of us are going to work and are in front of our machines, tending to e-mails and everything, we're not relating to other people. When we take a break we're talking to colleagues and that's ultimately important for teamwork and meeting people's social needs. Breaks aren't just about getting away from the computer but having contact with colleagues, which I think has an indirect benefit on productivity."
Breaks should be for everybody, he says, and unless the clocking-out policy applies to all kinds of breaks, it merely victimises smokers.
A better solution would be giving all staff a 15-minute break in the morning, another in the afternoon, and an hour for lunch. Any additional breaks, for smoking or whatever, can be on the clock.
"It's all about the T-word. The more you trust people the better. And if people undermine that trust then give them feedback."
What are your thoughts on this - smoking only in your own time when at work?
"A better solution would be giving all staff a 15-minute break in the morning, another in the afternoon, and an hour for lunch. Any additional breaks, for smoking or whatever, can be on the clock."
This is what we have at work and it is grand...
Here in Germany we have smoking booths within my workplace, so it's the problem solved. Problem is, people are permanently there because they're on every floor, and it's a minute's walk each time, so it's pretty easy to keep nipping out for one! If I was part of a task, and someone kept nipping out, I think it'd annoy me... so it's probably a good idea!
I must admit, I have started to leave work early by around 10 minutes, because I work on my own. I start an hour early in the morning because it suits me, so I don't have a problem with that. If I was to be challenged, I will claim that the 10 minutes are my daily smoking allowance, although I don't smoke but I see others who get paid for standing outside in smoking corners for longer than that and get paid
I am guilty of that!! We all get 15 mins in morning, 1 hour lunch and 15 mins in afternoon but as my job is not on the clock and I am in and out of meetings all day, it looks like I have more break time but I don't.. I run out in between calls to grab a quick cup of tea and a smoke... there is others like me here that don't smoke but they nip out between calls to have a break and get some air... Those who are on the clock don't abuse the 15 mins break, smokers or non smokers
Coullefelow
09-02-2014, 16:01
]it is a very good thing and about time. i should not have to breathe in peoplese cigarette (http://www.ecigfiend.com/) smoke anywhere when i choose not to smoke.[/B] Yes i am totally agree with you. sometimes its just unbearable and i also cant breath at all for the cigarette smell. Its smell is so weird and also like hell on the earth.
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