View Full Version : Where Can It Improve?
Even an avid fan of Eastenders can admit that it isnt at its greatest at the moment. So basically rather than using every thread to talk about how it can be improved lets discuss it all here.
For me personally they need to have a long hard think of the impact of storylines, they ruin characters and split up good couples just for the sake of a sensational storyline that has no long term impact on the show for good. They underuse too many characters, and hype up new ones and waste fantastic potential.
When you look back to the brilliant early 2000s we had a main set of characters who were all linked to each other and the main storylines: Phil, Dan, Steve, Mark, Lisa, Mel etc... and from this we had get drama, we need to get a set of characters that everyone likes and give them believable storylines and work on character development rather than storylines.
Im sure ill have more to say when more people have responded on this thread.
Angeltigger
26-02-2006, 11:29
they need some better people- like what is juley doing there. there boring charcter such as the miller
there make storyline really long... short it out.
i think one of the main things that could be done to improve it is gentle introducing new characters not loads all at once. At the minute there are so many that you need to get used to you dont care about what happens. I mean take Carly wicks we have only seen her in a few episodes so why would we care if her marriage broke up.
naturally its not good to introduce so many new characters at onece but Eastenders has been hit with so many big stars leaving
they were left with the underused and "boring" characters, who no one wants to watch, we need major characters to pull the show togetehr and i think some of the new ones are going to be doing this...
They need to sort out their big storylines. The problem with Eastenders, is that they have a big storyline, and they get lots of viewers, then they dont have anything to follow this up with. They need to order it, so that instead of having huge gaps, its more confined and closer, so they get a steady viewing figures etc.
One way I think EE can improve is to find some better storyline advisers. Most of the storylines recently are so dull, boring and predicable. Pat and Patrick is a classic example. Just what the hell was that all about? It lasted all of a few weeks, involved lazy and cheap writing and was done purely to create "drama". It was pathetic, contrived nonsense.
The length of the storylines are also a problem. They either go on for months and months (classic example is the 'Save Wellard' "storyline") or they last for a week or so before they are hardly mentioned again (the Stacey storyline with her mum). I liked the Stacey storyline but it was rushed and everything was packed into a week. It was good, powerfull drama but it would have been a better storyline, and a better use of Stacey, to have spaced the storyline out over longer than a week. There was no need to rush it. EE seems to drag out the boring, rubbish storylines and rush the ones that should not be rushed. The Wellard storyline should have been shorter and the Stacey storyline should have been longer. Another example now is the Billy/Honey relationship. They have rushed this storyline as a way to replace/recreate the Billy/Little Mo relationship without any thought to the development of the characters, especially Honey who is a new character and needs to be used in the right way so that viewers will care about her.
Another problem is the way they use the characters. They get shoved on our screen for a few days/weeks/months constantly and viewers get sick of them. There is no balance. Some characters are seen constantly on the screen and some are hardly ever seen. Stacey is a good character but she has been used far too much recently. One the otherhand, Gus was hardly seen for months and months, he gets a storyline where he is on screen constantly for a few months, and then he disappears again. No balance.
EE also has a problem with introducing new characters. Joe had a good introduction but the Wicks family have had an awful introduction. Who cares about Carly's marriage? I don't, I don't know the girl, I don't care about her and I am left with the feeling of hatred and irritation. Joe had a better introduction because he was seen occasionally at the dance lessons and in the Queen Vic with some of the locals. We did not have to listen to him going on about his personnal problems like we have with Carly. What stuns me was that I remember John Yorke and Tony Jordan talking about the Slater family introduction and how they waited months before slowly revealing the Slater family problems (Zoe's real parentage, Little Mo being abused by her husband) to help build up impact of the storylines, develop the characters and to make the viewers care about the characters and the problems they had. They have done completly the opposite with Carly. I can actually feel sympathy with the problems she has with her inlaws but I don't care because I don't care about her as a person.
Also they could hire some better actors. Some of them have been pretty terrible over the years.
And the constant personality transplants are a problem. Was Johnny Allen a cruel gangster, or was he the bloke who went round for tea with the neighbours (Jim and Dot)? Was Laura Beale a kind person who just wanted a baby with her husband, or was she some crazed baby-obsessed maniac? Characters change and develop over time in relation to what happens to them (i.e after a rape, you would expect a character to change somewhat) but what happens in EE is silly.
I think I have written an essay here. :) I wonder why I still watch it considering how many problems there still is with the show. :hmm:
Johnny Allen
26-02-2006, 12:43
They need a proper villian, you know like Dan Sullivan or someone like that, Yes we will have Grant and Phil back soon but at the moment it's devoid of someone the audience can really take a disliking too. EE also messed around too much with the character Johnny Allen, he could have become a true villian, but with mood changes so quickly and the introduction of Tina and Ruby he was made it a boring character.
Storylines go on too long, they need to be short and snappier and feel fresh. I would also suggest the axe fall on some of the characters who are not only a waste of space but can't act (Ruby and Juley two examples, I mean I couldnt care less about the characters or their relationship). They also need to stop being so far fetched, I mean Sonia has never had fantasies for girls before and than suddenly she has feelings for Naomi, if you ask me that is beyond believeable.
And some more humour, although that has stepped up a gear with the arrival of Bradley allowing Dot and Jim to have some great comic one-liners. I would also suggest we have more of Minty and Gary's antics, last weeks episode where Gary was wearing sunglasses when playing poker had me and my brother cracked up.
DaVeyWaVey
26-02-2006, 12:46
I think Eastenders is doing great at the moment but i can only remember the late 90s and early 2000s vaguely so i don't really know how good it was before but i started watching from you ain't my mother. That was great but i think Eastenders are doing fine at the moment. I like all the current cast and i think all they need to improve is the introduction of new characters. They introduce them too quickly but apart from that it's doing good, far better than the cardboard funfair era. :)
Johnny Allen
26-02-2006, 12:49
Actually Dave your quite right it isn't too bad at the moment, I have know EE alot worse before, it has stepped up a gear.
Xx-Vicky-xX
26-02-2006, 12:53
I think they need to stop bringing in so many characters all at the same time and if they insist on bringing in new people like bondboffin said alot of main characters have gone/are going and they need new people then they should introduce them slowly they introduced Carly and Kevin way to quickly especially with the whole Nico and Carly breakup it was too early for it to happen as viewers cant yet connect with how either Carly or Nico feel as we dont know them well enough.
I also think they need to have some happiness for people and if a character is leaving they dont always have to go unhappy okay people might argue that it makes good viewing but not for everyone character it would be nice to see some people happy for a change.
littlemo
26-02-2006, 13:00
Actually Dave your quite right it isn't too bad at the moment, I have know EE alot worse before, it has stepped up a gear.
I feel it's getting better, but there is still a lot to work on. I think it would be good to develop the characters we have on the soap, like Stacey who clearly has a lot of emotional problems. Investigating her past (more than we have done) would be a good way to get to know her. They missed that chance with Dennis I don't want them to do that again.
There have been a lot of storylines that have been rushed and inappropriate, like the whole Pat/Patrick thing, which has really gotten on my nerves. The Kathy thing was very predictable and was also rushed.
I like a few of the new characters, Bradley etc., so I would like to see more of them, things look good for the future.
They need to get rid of the PC scriptwriters they have. I seriously doubt whether any of them have been near the east end. There does not seem to be any continuity between them. Storylines seem to go off at a tangent. Characters seem to change personalities just to suit whatever person is writing on that particular week. A recent example is Johhny Allen. He had already proved he had the ability to be a proper villan whilst acting as the crooked Don Beech in the Bill, so we know its not his fault. No its the fault of the pathetic writers. They ruined him completely. When Shane Ritchie arrived as Alfie Moon I honestly thought that he was like a breath of fresh air and that EE was on the up again. Instead they turned him into a rubbish character that nobody cared about and we were all glad to see the back of him.
Then without wishing to cause offence to young members of this board we had all the nonsense of KALFIE, MOLFIE and SHANNIS. What utter tosh. What happened that the producers decided to make EE appeal to a younger age group. That is fine if they intend showing it on CBBC (where it really should be at the moment) but its just plain daft for a programme that is supposed to be a primetime flagship programme. But its no excuse for totally rubbish actors like the Wooden Plank known as NIGEL HARMANN
Of course there is the fact that they start to spend HUGE amounts of Taxpayers money in bringing back has beens like Barbara (Poison Dwarf) Windsor and the monosylabic Ross 'Grunt' Kemp and his equally overated brother Steve 'The Dogger 'McFadden not to mention the laughable return of webcam man.
Then of course we come to the really stupid storylines, there are too many to mention them all but if I say Cardboard Funfair, the death of Barry, the death of Laura, the basketball team, Kidneygate, Ferrerias, Phils arrest, Dots Cancer I think you will get the picture.
I know a lot of people may think I am anti EE but in actual fact I watched it from day one (before lots of you were born :) ). All I want is the return to UNMISSABLE TV instead of UNWATCHABLE TV which is unfortunately what the pile of poo we are left with now. One good episode in ten is not enough. Make EE great again with characters we can care about and villans that we can love to hate.
I remember episodes of Eastenders in 2000, that were really good and now Eastenders has just plummeted. They need to stop bringing in pointless characters that nobody cares out, or just wasting the character they've got. Get rid of a lot of the families, like the millers that don't bring anything to the show. Focus on creting a few very good families and then couples etc. People we could actually care about. I have lost count of all the characters in eastenders. They also need to actually create good storylines as well. When they did 'Who shot Phil?' that was a brilliant storyline and made me want to watch eastenders, I don't bother anymore.
1. Get rid of pointless characters e.g. Juley, Naomi
2. Make a few good groups of characters instead of loads of random ones
3. Get in a decent gangster not pathetic ones like Andy Hunter or ones that g o from being really tough to having tea with Dot and Jim like Johnny Allen
4. Create decent, captivating, rating-boosting storylines. Not Save Wellard or the recent Kathy's dead. If they'd killed a main character who is actually ON SCREEN I would have cared, Kathy left ages ago and it was a pointless thing to do really. It will just involve a big court case between Ian and Phil. Yawn!
5. get really good actors in, nobody wooden that looks like their reading off an autocue.
6. I love having young people in Eastenders, but can we have some slightly older people that can add to Eastenders.
Overall, Eastenders needs to basically delete everything thaty've done in the last 2-3 years. Get Eastenders back to how it was in 2000, when everybody wnated to watch it. Now I can't be bothered
xxx
BlackKat
26-02-2006, 13:42
Then without wishing to cause offence to young members of this board we had all the nonsense of KALFIE, MOLFIE and SHANNIS. What utter tosh.
I think in defence of the couple storylines, it's some of the viewers that make them seem juvenile. I'm sure if in the 80s there were lots of teens writing in to magazines etc about how they just love Dengie (Den and Angie) then that would have seemed juvenile as well. I'm not saying all of the recent couples have been good, but EE has always had couples, and I'm sure all of those past couples had there own fanbases as well. Perhaps it's since the internet became more wildly used that the fans have become more vocal, and therefore some of the more shallow opinions are being heard. It's also possible to be a fan of a certain couple for others reasons than "Dennis is so hot and Shannis are cute," but I don't think those reasons get heard as often.
Anyway - I think the main problem with EE at the moment is the lack of consistency and pacing. One episode, or even a week of episodes, might be fantastic, but then the next week they're terrible. With the pacing, as someone mentioned earlier, you get storylines like Wellard which drag on for months, yet other storylines that are over faster than you can blink. Even last years big storyline, the Den murder, had huge problems with the pacing. Den was murdered. Sam, Chrissie and Zoe went round in circles, before disappearing for weeks. Then it all reappeared when Kat and Shannis returned, only to drag again when Sharon decided she wanted Den at the wedding. Finally Den was discovered, only for it to be dragged out until the Mitchells returned, stretching the credibility of Sharon's faith in Chrissie to the utter limits. It had some great moments, and overall I enjoyed it, but the pacing in it was crap. They need to be able to mix character development, with exciting storylines. It seems to be all or nothing -- either something's big and explosive, or it's boring as hell. It's either a murder, or a snoozefest of an affair. They need to find a middle ground.
I've been thinking that maybe the four episodes a week is a problem for EE. Maybe having to produce four episodes a week means less time to rewrite and tweak the scripts. I don't know if there is a relationship between the number of episodes a week and the quality of the show but EE was very good during the 80's and 90's when there were only two or three episodes a week. I know Corrie and Emmerdale have increased the number of episodes over the years as well but I think it is fair to say that all of the soaps (Corrie, EE, Emmerdale) have suffered a decline of quality to a degree since they all started adding episodes. Storylines have dragged on and sensationalisim has taken over in all of the soaps of late, but moreso in EE.
If the number of episodes are a factor in the decline of EE, then I would rather have less episodes and more quality.
i used to love the friendships between some of the characters, good groups of friends. It made it more believable, take Kevins send off the other night the square was making out they were best buddys with him.
I alsi think they need to develop the characters more not rely upon old faces, i mean Grant Mitchell was a new character once and people like him because we got to know the character and what he was like, he didnt just pop up and everyone loved him.
Cornishbabe
26-02-2006, 14:49
i think they should introduce storylines that they havnt tried before. Instead of basically repeating they storylines the have shown before with new chracter. And they should stop getting rid of their stronger chacters.
littlemo
26-02-2006, 19:03
i think they should introduce storylines that they havnt tried before. Instead of basically repeating they storylines the have shown before with new chracter. And they should stop getting rid of their stronger chacters.
Yes but there are only a certain amount of storylines you can do, and I think they have tried to do different things. The whole depression thing with Stacey's mum was good. I do think they need to write new scripts for storylines and not recycle them, there are no 2 circumstances exactly the same. Everybody has different way of dealing with things, and that should be shown.
What strong characters have they got rid of? Nigel Harman and Letitia Dean left of their own accord.
Richie_lecturer
26-02-2006, 21:18
A friend said to me that the other day that EE is now the worst written programme on TV. I reluctantly agreed with him.
They need to sack the wooden actors and be careful not to bring any more wooden ones in to replace them. Better writing wouldn't go a miss either.
I think in defence of the couple storylines, it's some of the viewers that make them seem juvenile. I'm sure if in the 80s there were lots of teens writing in to magazines etc about how they just love Dengie (Den and Angie) then that would have seemed juvenile as well.
That never happened blackkat. Den and Angie (or dengie as you called them) were not a cute couple. they were explosive and nobody saw them like they do today and certainly would never ever have called them Dengie.
As everyone has been saying, EE needs to find a balance between long drawn out story and there short one. they have introduced too many too soon to replace what has left and I don't think the mitchell quick fix is going to work long term. they need people like Steve Owen, Janine who we met and got to know then introduce an explosive story
I think EE needs a new bad guy and a new bitch. I want a character I love to hate instead of just hating because they are crap characters. I loved to hate Janine and Trevor. They made everything more interesting. You only have to look at the state of Little Mo's character now to know that Trevor made Little Mo a better character.
Where are the Nick Cottons, Cindy Beales, Janine Butchers, Trevor Morgans, Steve Owens in todays EE? Johnny Allen is leaving, and Stacey and Dawn are not really bitchy, just mouthy cows. Neither Stacey nor Dawn have any real evil in them, not like Janine or Cindy.
I think EE needs a new bad guy and a new bitch. I want a character I love to hate instead of just hating because they are crap characters. I loved to hate Janine and Trevor. They made everything more interesting. You only have to look at the state of Little Mo's character now to know that Trevor made Little Mo a better character.
Where are the Nick Cottons, Cindy Beales, Janine Butchers, Trevor Morgans, Steve Owens in todays EE? Johnny Allen is leaving, and Stacey and Dawn are not really bitchy, just mouthy cows. Neither Stacey nor Dawn have any real evil in them, not like Janine or Cindy.
Totally agree with this. Every soap has a "love to hate them" person. look at Tracey in corrie. Eastender seriously lack them kind of people. You are right Stacey can't fill that roll but I think Dawn. She is bad enough to tell keith about Mike so she has a nasty streak
Maybe Dawn could be that person but, for me, she does not have that spark, that special something, that Cindy and Janine had, especially Janine. The next EE bitch will have a hard act to follow as Janine was great.
they shoud get rid of the Boring misrable characters.add more humour to it also more interesting storylines
they shoud get rid of the Boring misrable characters.add That would leave them with nobody then :)
BlackKat
27-02-2006, 16:43
That never happened blackkat. Den and Angie (or dengie as you called them) were not a cute couple. they were explosive and nobody saw them like they do today and certainly would never ever have called them Dengie.
Yes, I know. What I meant was -- if there had been fans like that, would the couple have come off as juvenile as Shannis and Kalfie did to some people. Is it the couple itself, and the writing for them, that's bad or the group of vocal fans that make them seem so?
Yes, I know. What I meant was -- if there had been fans like that, would the couple have come off as juvenile as Shannis and Kalfie did to some people. Is it the couple itself, and the writing for them, that's bad or the group of vocal fans that make them seem so?
I honestly think it is the group of vocal fans and the writers for giving them what they wanted. It was too perfect, shannis is pregnant and Kalfie ride of into the sunset... that is not real life. Kat would have killed him for been with her sister
Dennis would never have found sharon again and would have live there lives with regret... now that is real life
Yes, I know. What I meant was -- if there had been fans like that, would the couple have come off as juvenile as Shannis and Kalfie did to some people. Is it the couple itself, and the writing for them, that's bad or the group of vocal fans that make them seem so?
Den and Angie were a legend. Their acting, scrpts and on-screen Chremistry was a treat to watch. They were Characters we could actually care about and believe in unlike the modern dumbed down nonsense that is Kalfie/Molfie/Shannis/Jakassie. The scriptwriter now are writing for a less discerning audience. People should care about the actors abilities and not whether or not they are fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttt. Unfortunately the PTB out in Elstree land have not realised this yet.
i think a bomb should be dropped on walford and just a few characters survive like gary, stacey, big moe, deano and dot!! and maybe wellard!
DaVeyWaVey
27-02-2006, 17:43
I think they should actually bring in a new criminal family. Forget the Mitchells, they were great characters but we need fresh blood in the show and not go over old ground. I think a new criminal family who are great actors and have lots of potential should move to Albert Square :)
x Amby x
06-03-2006, 19:47
i do like the New characters, but EastEnders was so much better in my opinion with Kat, Alfie, Dennis etc.. all the old characters and favourites!
Chris_2k11
07-03-2006, 17:18
I think they should actually bring in a new criminal family. Forget the Mitchells, they were great characters but we need fresh blood in the show and not go over old ground. I think a new criminal family who are great actors and have lots of potential should move to Albert Square :)The Mitchells are so 90's if you ask me. :lweek:
Richie_lecturer
07-03-2006, 17:19
Chris speaks a lot of sense. :)
parkerman
07-03-2006, 17:40
It's interesting reading this thread because it brings back memories of what Eastenders was. And it's true that characters like Angie, the original Den (!), Steve Owen, Mel, Cindy, Janine, Trevor were REAL. Their parts were well written and well acted and made the audience feel for them one way or the other, whether good or bad. The Carol/Dan/Bianca/Ricky storyline for example was explosive and heart wrenching because you could feel for them all (even Ricky!) Some of the current (or recently departed) cast are good actors, like Dot, Ian, Jim, Pauline, Stacey and Kat, (most of them old timers anyway), but you don't get that same degree of feeling for them because the writing just isn't there any more.
The one thing that really irritates me about the current writing of Eastenders is the continuity and the complete change in characters, like Sonia and, now it looks like, Joe for example. Though to be fair, this has been a problem for some time, remember how Barry, Billy and Minty all changed. If a new storyline requires a complete change, hey presto, it just happens to suit the scriptwriter. Real life goes out the window and makes it difficult to build up any real characterisation and therefore any sympathy or identification from the audience with them.
Get shot of the deadwood - Ruby, Juley, Naomi, Carly, etc. and bring back some good scriptwriters who can build on what's there and not destroy it when they feel like it. That's the way to go.
x Amby x
07-03-2006, 17:45
yeah it was much better back in the days with Mel and Steve. Although i can't imagine The Square without the Slaters, most of them have gone now! Its on Mo, Charlie, Little Mo and Stacey left!
Richie_lecturer
07-03-2006, 17:46
Very good points Parkerman. :) Excellent summary.
To be honest, I'm going to start watching less of it from now on, and if it's still not on the right path by Easter, I'll give up on it altogether. It's been three and a half years since the rot set in, and the bosses ran out of excuses yonks ago. The soap remains on the whole, a load of rubbish imo.
i have a few more suggestions
once Grant has gone, keep courtney! Frank always used to leave Janine when he had his walk outs... Courtney is becoming a real comedy character and has the potential to become the next Janine, Courtney full time would be a great addition!
The producers should also have given Carla more airtime, she sounds as tough she has a lot of potential, theres no sassy and powerful women in eastenders these days, and if shed come in earlier into Grant's stint... instead of this ridiculous Grant/Jane storyline then she could have found ties to Walford other than Grant so that when he leaves Carla could have stayed.
Also what has happened to making good characters and families such as the Slaters that have a potential that goes further than one storyline!? The Wicks have been here for a fair few months so far and they have failed to provide us with a major storyline!
they ruin characters and split up good couples just for the sake of a sensational storyline that has no long term impact on the show for good. They underuse too many characters, and hype up new ones and waste fantastic potential.
Exactly. Vicitms of the above are: Sonia, Martin, Jake, Gary, Minty, Mickey, Yolande, Patrick, Ian, Jane, Pauline..
Many of whom have decided to quit and I don't blame them one single bit.
Eastenders is too plasticy, amaturish andmost of the scripts are crap.
They need grittier/dramatic storylines.
Existing characters need to be used and not shoved into the background due to "new character" invasion.
Repetitvie storylines need to stop.
New fresh material is badly needed.
They need to get over this bringing back characters from the past.
Each Actor/Actress must have their fair share of viewing time. (Emmerdale amd Home and Away have got this spot on.)
Also Acotrs/Actresses need to have their fair share of decent and good storylines.
They need to remember that once upon a time it was older viewers who watched the soap and are now stopping because it is turning into a young persons soap. Don't get me wrong I do enjoy some of the storylines which involve the youngsters, for example I love Courtney and Ben both of whom are typical Mitchells., but Eastenders is turning into a soap for "Teenagers"
I suggest that they do some serious reviewing in the writing department.
Richie_lecturer
26-05-2006, 15:44
What a great post, I agree with nearly all of that. :clap:
I suggest they stop bringing in new characters. If any are needed, I think ones from the past are best as it can take a while to get a feel for a new character and get to know their personalities, and, with the excessive number that have been bought in in recent months, it is getting confusing and boring.
Dutchgirl
28-05-2006, 18:51
They need to maintain characters who work, and maybe if actors quit bring in a new face! Sometimes key figures disappear because the actor playing the character wants out!
Jada-GDR
29-05-2006, 16:32
i think they're hauling in too many new characters too quickly. we've only just got over the boring storyline with the first new family and then another one comes in. Also, a lot of these new actors have been chosen for their looks an not their talent. half the time there's a new character coming in the articles on the website and in inside soap state that the characters "will turn some heads" or "will have a big impact on the men/women of walford" and its getting a bit annoyingthankfully, some of the newer characters soon joining according to the eastenders website look less as if they've been chosen for this reason
DaVeyWaVey
29-05-2006, 20:09
I feel Eastenders is going downhill again, there have been so many new additions like the Fox family who seem very pointless and boring, Denise Fox is a great new character though played by a fantastic actress. The Sonia/Naomi storyline has been so boring and there have been so many characters that have been paired up with each other, Bradley and Stacey seem to be the only realistic couple at the moment, i am tired of Grant's tangled love life, even though his affair was Jane was quite good, it was not great though and i would have really loved for the affair to have came out but it seems to have been left in the air at the moment, there also seems to be characters that aren't doing much like the Wicks family, they only seem to be used for comedy value but i want drama not comedy....in my opinion, i just feel that EE has lost its sparkle at the moment, i will continue to watch though, i am sure it will improve soon. :)
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