alan45
02-07-2013, 00:37
Coronation Street kicks off a big new storyline for Paul Kershaw next week as he is accused of being a racist.
Lloyd Mullaney makes the accusation at The Rovers after hearing Paul use the phrase "play the white man" during a darts game with Steve McDonald.
Although the situation could be easily resolved, neither of the men back down from their position - which leads to a full-blown feud.
Here, Tony Hirst (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/celebrities/tony-hirst/) and Craig Charles - who play Paul and Lloyd - offer their thoughts on the drama to come.
How would you describe Paul and Lloyd's friendship up until this point?
Tony: "They have always got on and they have always had banter, especially taking the mickey out of Steve. They are a similar age, a similar class, and Lloyd is one of Eileen's best mates, so they have always been around each other and got on. They share the same sense of humour and the same outlook. They have always been pretty straight with each other."
How does Lloyd react when he overhears Paul's remark?
Craig: "It's Lloyd's daughter Jenna who takes real umbridge with it and questions it, so Lloyd is keen to back her up. It's one of those throwaway statements that maybe he would have let go if he had been on his own with his mates, but because it was said in front of his daughter he feels differently.
"Then it becomes a huge stand-off. All Paul should have done in that situation is say, 'Sorry, I didn't realise what I was saying. I'm really sorry and it won't happen again'. However, Paul gets all defensive. He goes on the attack saying, 'I'm not racist'.
"Paul starts shouting the odds, which firmly entrenches Lloyd into thinking that it isn't really okay for him to have said that. He tells Paul that he should apologise for saying it, and if he doesn't apologise, there is going to be a problem between them."
What is Paul's point of view on the situation?
Tony: "I think Paul has the same point of view, really. It's the same for him - if he was to stop and think about it, he probably knows that it was a stupid thing to say. At the time of saying it, there is genuinely no intent behind it, but it's clear objectively that it is a racist colonial piece of language.
"However, Paul is already in a bad mood over some problems he's facing at work, so he isn't really in a place to be objective about any of it. He is attacked straight away and he feels forced into a corner straight away, so he has no room to apologise. He feels his back is up against the wall the minute he has opened his mouth, so he defends himself irrationally and that is how the problem escalates, really.
"Then it becomes a stand-off. They become entrenched and they can't be seen to back down from their position, which has been established really quickly and in the heat of the moment."
http://i2.cdnds.net/13/26/618x406/soaps-corrie-8167-4.jpg © ITV
Lloyd accuses Paul of being racist.
How do the locals at The Rovers react?
Craig: "Steve instantly says to Paul, 'It was a stupid thing to say, mate' and leaves the pub with Lloyd, Mandy and Jenna. Eileen, who is caught in the middle as Lloyd's close friend and employee, also thinks it was a stupid thing to say. The only supporter of Paul's position is Gloria, who is from another age. It's a generational thing."
Tony: "That generational perspective is quite interesting, because it is a piece of language that Paul has never thought about. He has only heard it from his dad - his dad used to say it all the time. Certainly when Paul says it, there was no intent from him. In terms of defending his position, I don't think he even thinks about it at that point, because he is absolutely convinced that he is innocent.
"However, as it goes on, they become more entrenched. If you were to look at it in the cold light of day, he was wrong to use it - but that is not the position he is in, and he has to defend himself even if he is isolated."
The phrase doesn't have a place in modern society, does it?
Tony: "Well that is what the story is about - it's about the impact of language, who takes offence from what, and therefore who is in a position of right or wrong. It's interesting that Paul uses it from a position of what he believes is all innocence, yet it clearly has an impact."
Craig: "What Paul is trying to say to Steve when he uses the phrase 'play the white man' is 'be fair', which means be the white man. That suggests that you don't want to be a devious sneaky, creepy black man. It is a colonial term of phrase which was coined in the imperialist past."
Lloyd's reaction is partly due to the fact that Jenna is offended. Is Lloyd more used to hearing these sorts of things?
Craig: "Lloyd would have grown up watching Love Thy Neighbour. He would have grown up around phrases like jungle bunny, coon, gollywog. He would be worn down by it but he will have heard it all before, so he wouldn't necessarily have risen to the bait with something as seemingly innocuous as 'play the white man'. He would possibly have let it go over his head or just thrown Paul a look.
"However, because Lloyd has got this new daughter, he feels he wants to defend her too. She has gone through a lot recently and now she has gone into the pub and been racially slighted, Lloyd really feels as though he has to step in and protect her. He's standing up for her, and he's quite right to do so as well."
http://i2.cdnds.net/13/27/618x411/soaps-coronation-street-lloyd-mullaney-jenna-kamara.jpg © ITV
Lloyd and Jenna
What would you say the main points of dispute are?
Tony: "In the story, it really escalates when Lloyd accuses Paul of being a racist. This is the real spark for Paul. Initially he defended himself because he genuinely thought he was innocent and certainly did not mean any intent by it. Before he has had a chance to objectively think about the impact of what he has said, he is having to defend his position. Then when Lloyd accuses him of racism, that escalates it for Paul because that is a label he struggles to live with."
Craig: "Lloyd calls him a racist through exasperation really, because Paul was defending a racist position. If he had stopped and thought about it, he is actually defending a racist position which is not a position that is easily defended. That's why Lloyd throws out the racist comment, and that's when it all escalates further. Their positions become even more deeper entrenched and what was initially a fairly minor argument escalates into a feud."
Tony: "It becomes an absolute point of principle for two people who are determined to stand their ground. It is a weird one, because Paul knows it was the wrong thing to say and he doesn't like the notion that he has said it. He hasn't thought about where it has come from, so I don't actually think he thinks about the impact of his language."
As time goes on, does Paul come close to apologising?
Tony: "The more he gets put against the wall, the less he is going to be able to admit he was wrong. At the core of him he is a good man. He has always tried to operate with honour and integrity, and he is shocked that all of a sudden he is getting outed in public as someone who is the polar opposite of that. That's what is driving his behaviour now - he knows it not to be true.
"Interestingly what Craig was saying about what Lloyd has had to listen to when growing up, I actually think there is a lot more pernicious kind of language that is used on a regular basis, in the press and on the streets, that we actually don't take responsibility for."
Will this have a big impact on the people around Paul and Lloyd?
Craig: "Yes, definitely. Mandy's inability to support Lloyd or Jenna on this means that they are really on the rocks and Eileen is put in a really impossible situation."
Tony: "Yes, Eileen is definitely put in a really impossible situation. She is in the middle of wanting to maintain and protect her relationship with Lloyd, who is also her boss, and there is an irritation that Paul has brought this to her door."
Craig: "And of course Eileen's son is mixed race. In the initial situation Jason is really torn, because he sees what Lloyd means. Lloyd can't believe Paul has said it in front of Jason. Jason doesn't know what to think now and he is put in a really difficult situation."
http://i1.cdnds.net/13/26/618x410/soaps-corrie-8167-3.jpg © ITV
Eileen becomes involved in the situation
Tony: "Jason is frustrated and thinks they need their heads banging together. I think Paul and Lloyd both get isolated to a certain degree by different people. They both become so entrenched on this point of principle."
Craig: "There are lots of times where Paul is going to bite his lip and apologise and something gets in the way of him doing that. For example, he goes into the corner shop and Dev gives him an earful, or Sophie gets involved and he backs down again from apologising."
Tony: "At the very end of the scene where it happened, Paul lifts up his hand to apologise, but Mandy has said it is time to leave and that moment is taken away from him. I like the notion that it was so simple to solve but it was taken out of their hands."
When you first heard about this story, what did you think?
Craig: "I think it's a valid story, especially in the present climate. There have been a few different situations where people have been picked up for their use of language. For example, the recent situation with the golfer making comments about fried chicken, it is noting the race of someone in that way."
Tony: "It's clearly an important subject. I had a concern that soap operas tell stories in broad brush strokes and this isn't a story that is suitable for those broad brush strokes. I think it's detailed, complex and difficult, but the writing so far has been really good because it has tried to mine the complexities of the situation."
What kind of impact would you like the story to have?
Tony: "If it makes people think about the impact of the language they use, then that can't be a bad thing."
Craig: "There is an awful lot of that language that is a throw-back to Victorian era or earlier - the use of black as a negative and white as a positive. The White Knight is good, the Black Knight is evil or blacklisted."
Tony: "What is interesting is the PC imposition of language. If you prohibit someone from using a phrase, it doesn't change their attitude, it just stops them from saying it. There is an argument that if you can be open about it in this way, then you can start to have a debate. You have to be responsible with what you say and what you think. For example, you don't hear it so overtly at football these days, but it doesn't mean to say that people don't have those feelings."
Craig: "It is driven underground to a certain degree."
How much of a problem do you think racism is in society?
Craig: "It is a lot more underground now. I have been in the public eye for so many years and people perceive you differently. My kids have a much broader racial mix of friends and less of an understanding or experience of racism as I did when I was growing up."
Tony: "Maybe that prohibition happens more around black people, but it doesn't necessarily in a group of white people who do think that way - if they have an agenda and sense that people are like-minded. I have challenged people in situations like that where things have been said."
Lloyd Mullaney makes the accusation at The Rovers after hearing Paul use the phrase "play the white man" during a darts game with Steve McDonald.
Although the situation could be easily resolved, neither of the men back down from their position - which leads to a full-blown feud.
Here, Tony Hirst (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/celebrities/tony-hirst/) and Craig Charles - who play Paul and Lloyd - offer their thoughts on the drama to come.
How would you describe Paul and Lloyd's friendship up until this point?
Tony: "They have always got on and they have always had banter, especially taking the mickey out of Steve. They are a similar age, a similar class, and Lloyd is one of Eileen's best mates, so they have always been around each other and got on. They share the same sense of humour and the same outlook. They have always been pretty straight with each other."
How does Lloyd react when he overhears Paul's remark?
Craig: "It's Lloyd's daughter Jenna who takes real umbridge with it and questions it, so Lloyd is keen to back her up. It's one of those throwaway statements that maybe he would have let go if he had been on his own with his mates, but because it was said in front of his daughter he feels differently.
"Then it becomes a huge stand-off. All Paul should have done in that situation is say, 'Sorry, I didn't realise what I was saying. I'm really sorry and it won't happen again'. However, Paul gets all defensive. He goes on the attack saying, 'I'm not racist'.
"Paul starts shouting the odds, which firmly entrenches Lloyd into thinking that it isn't really okay for him to have said that. He tells Paul that he should apologise for saying it, and if he doesn't apologise, there is going to be a problem between them."
What is Paul's point of view on the situation?
Tony: "I think Paul has the same point of view, really. It's the same for him - if he was to stop and think about it, he probably knows that it was a stupid thing to say. At the time of saying it, there is genuinely no intent behind it, but it's clear objectively that it is a racist colonial piece of language.
"However, Paul is already in a bad mood over some problems he's facing at work, so he isn't really in a place to be objective about any of it. He is attacked straight away and he feels forced into a corner straight away, so he has no room to apologise. He feels his back is up against the wall the minute he has opened his mouth, so he defends himself irrationally and that is how the problem escalates, really.
"Then it becomes a stand-off. They become entrenched and they can't be seen to back down from their position, which has been established really quickly and in the heat of the moment."
http://i2.cdnds.net/13/26/618x406/soaps-corrie-8167-4.jpg © ITV
Lloyd accuses Paul of being racist.
How do the locals at The Rovers react?
Craig: "Steve instantly says to Paul, 'It was a stupid thing to say, mate' and leaves the pub with Lloyd, Mandy and Jenna. Eileen, who is caught in the middle as Lloyd's close friend and employee, also thinks it was a stupid thing to say. The only supporter of Paul's position is Gloria, who is from another age. It's a generational thing."
Tony: "That generational perspective is quite interesting, because it is a piece of language that Paul has never thought about. He has only heard it from his dad - his dad used to say it all the time. Certainly when Paul says it, there was no intent from him. In terms of defending his position, I don't think he even thinks about it at that point, because he is absolutely convinced that he is innocent.
"However, as it goes on, they become more entrenched. If you were to look at it in the cold light of day, he was wrong to use it - but that is not the position he is in, and he has to defend himself even if he is isolated."
The phrase doesn't have a place in modern society, does it?
Tony: "Well that is what the story is about - it's about the impact of language, who takes offence from what, and therefore who is in a position of right or wrong. It's interesting that Paul uses it from a position of what he believes is all innocence, yet it clearly has an impact."
Craig: "What Paul is trying to say to Steve when he uses the phrase 'play the white man' is 'be fair', which means be the white man. That suggests that you don't want to be a devious sneaky, creepy black man. It is a colonial term of phrase which was coined in the imperialist past."
Lloyd's reaction is partly due to the fact that Jenna is offended. Is Lloyd more used to hearing these sorts of things?
Craig: "Lloyd would have grown up watching Love Thy Neighbour. He would have grown up around phrases like jungle bunny, coon, gollywog. He would be worn down by it but he will have heard it all before, so he wouldn't necessarily have risen to the bait with something as seemingly innocuous as 'play the white man'. He would possibly have let it go over his head or just thrown Paul a look.
"However, because Lloyd has got this new daughter, he feels he wants to defend her too. She has gone through a lot recently and now she has gone into the pub and been racially slighted, Lloyd really feels as though he has to step in and protect her. He's standing up for her, and he's quite right to do so as well."
http://i2.cdnds.net/13/27/618x411/soaps-coronation-street-lloyd-mullaney-jenna-kamara.jpg © ITV
Lloyd and Jenna
What would you say the main points of dispute are?
Tony: "In the story, it really escalates when Lloyd accuses Paul of being a racist. This is the real spark for Paul. Initially he defended himself because he genuinely thought he was innocent and certainly did not mean any intent by it. Before he has had a chance to objectively think about the impact of what he has said, he is having to defend his position. Then when Lloyd accuses him of racism, that escalates it for Paul because that is a label he struggles to live with."
Craig: "Lloyd calls him a racist through exasperation really, because Paul was defending a racist position. If he had stopped and thought about it, he is actually defending a racist position which is not a position that is easily defended. That's why Lloyd throws out the racist comment, and that's when it all escalates further. Their positions become even more deeper entrenched and what was initially a fairly minor argument escalates into a feud."
Tony: "It becomes an absolute point of principle for two people who are determined to stand their ground. It is a weird one, because Paul knows it was the wrong thing to say and he doesn't like the notion that he has said it. He hasn't thought about where it has come from, so I don't actually think he thinks about the impact of his language."
As time goes on, does Paul come close to apologising?
Tony: "The more he gets put against the wall, the less he is going to be able to admit he was wrong. At the core of him he is a good man. He has always tried to operate with honour and integrity, and he is shocked that all of a sudden he is getting outed in public as someone who is the polar opposite of that. That's what is driving his behaviour now - he knows it not to be true.
"Interestingly what Craig was saying about what Lloyd has had to listen to when growing up, I actually think there is a lot more pernicious kind of language that is used on a regular basis, in the press and on the streets, that we actually don't take responsibility for."
Will this have a big impact on the people around Paul and Lloyd?
Craig: "Yes, definitely. Mandy's inability to support Lloyd or Jenna on this means that they are really on the rocks and Eileen is put in a really impossible situation."
Tony: "Yes, Eileen is definitely put in a really impossible situation. She is in the middle of wanting to maintain and protect her relationship with Lloyd, who is also her boss, and there is an irritation that Paul has brought this to her door."
Craig: "And of course Eileen's son is mixed race. In the initial situation Jason is really torn, because he sees what Lloyd means. Lloyd can't believe Paul has said it in front of Jason. Jason doesn't know what to think now and he is put in a really difficult situation."
http://i1.cdnds.net/13/26/618x410/soaps-corrie-8167-3.jpg © ITV
Eileen becomes involved in the situation
Tony: "Jason is frustrated and thinks they need their heads banging together. I think Paul and Lloyd both get isolated to a certain degree by different people. They both become so entrenched on this point of principle."
Craig: "There are lots of times where Paul is going to bite his lip and apologise and something gets in the way of him doing that. For example, he goes into the corner shop and Dev gives him an earful, or Sophie gets involved and he backs down again from apologising."
Tony: "At the very end of the scene where it happened, Paul lifts up his hand to apologise, but Mandy has said it is time to leave and that moment is taken away from him. I like the notion that it was so simple to solve but it was taken out of their hands."
When you first heard about this story, what did you think?
Craig: "I think it's a valid story, especially in the present climate. There have been a few different situations where people have been picked up for their use of language. For example, the recent situation with the golfer making comments about fried chicken, it is noting the race of someone in that way."
Tony: "It's clearly an important subject. I had a concern that soap operas tell stories in broad brush strokes and this isn't a story that is suitable for those broad brush strokes. I think it's detailed, complex and difficult, but the writing so far has been really good because it has tried to mine the complexities of the situation."
What kind of impact would you like the story to have?
Tony: "If it makes people think about the impact of the language they use, then that can't be a bad thing."
Craig: "There is an awful lot of that language that is a throw-back to Victorian era or earlier - the use of black as a negative and white as a positive. The White Knight is good, the Black Knight is evil or blacklisted."
Tony: "What is interesting is the PC imposition of language. If you prohibit someone from using a phrase, it doesn't change their attitude, it just stops them from saying it. There is an argument that if you can be open about it in this way, then you can start to have a debate. You have to be responsible with what you say and what you think. For example, you don't hear it so overtly at football these days, but it doesn't mean to say that people don't have those feelings."
Craig: "It is driven underground to a certain degree."
How much of a problem do you think racism is in society?
Craig: "It is a lot more underground now. I have been in the public eye for so many years and people perceive you differently. My kids have a much broader racial mix of friends and less of an understanding or experience of racism as I did when I was growing up."
Tony: "Maybe that prohibition happens more around black people, but it doesn't necessarily in a group of white people who do think that way - if they have an agenda and sense that people are like-minded. I have challenged people in situations like that where things have been said."