Eastender current episode discussion IV

[parkerman]

That still doesn't make it murder.

I'm afraid it does.

The mens rea of murder is either an intention to kill or an intention to cause grievous bodily harm for the defendant to have the mens rea of murder. There must be clear evidence of an intention which is proved not only when the defendant's motive or purpose is to kill or cause grievous bodily harm (direct intent), but when death or grievous bodily harm is a virtually certain consequence of the defendant's act.

Gray knew that by walking away death (or grievous bodily harm) was likely to result, thus the intention was clear, making it murder.

[lizann]

It's not the pushing that's the important thing though, it's the fact he walked away while she was still alive - that was premeditated.

yes he did not do anything to help, left her to die

[Jadefalcon]

You get 1st, 2nd degree murder and manslaughter.

1st degree is intentionally planning beforehand and killing.

2nd degree is intentional, but could be a heat of the moment thing, like Gray's 'red mist' comment, but is still intended.

Manslaughter could be like a struggle and someone falls back and dies due to an injury or gets run down by a car etc.

[parkerman]

You get 1st, 2nd degree murder and manslaughter.

1st degree is intentionally planning beforehand and killing.

2nd degree is intentional, but could be a heat of the moment thing, like Gray's 'red mist' comment, but is still intended.

Manslaughter could be like a struggle and someone falls back and dies due to an injury or gets run down by a car etc.

That's U.S. law. There is no such thing as first degree or second degree murder in the UK. It's either murder or manslaughter. In 2006, the Law Commission published a report proposing that UK law be brought in line with US law but it was never adopted.

[lizann]

karen worried about gray if only she knew

[Dennis tanner]

I'm afraid it does.

The mens rea of murder is either an intention to kill or an intention to cause grievous bodily harm for the defendant to have the mens rea of murder. There must be clear evidence of an intention which is proved not only when the defendant's motive or purpose is to kill or cause grievous bodily harm (direct intent), but when death or grievous bodily harm is a virtually certain consequence of the defendant's act.

Gray knew that by walking away death (or grievous bodily harm) was likely to result, thus the intention was clear, making it murder.

He did not intend to cause GBH or death.

[Dennis tanner]

karen worried about gray if only she knew

Karen always gets it wrong

[parkerman]

He did not intend to cause GBH or death.

Not when he pushed her, but he did when he walked away from her and left her lying on the floor.

[Dennis tanner]

Not when he pushed her, but he did when he walked away from her and left her lying on the floor.

You have correctly described what happened but come to the wrong conclusion. It was not murder.

[lizann]

why was karen not rang to be informed and take the grandkids, mother dead dad arrested but let whitney a stranger basically have them