Sonia's tug of Love

[littlemo]

Looking at the spoilers it looks like Sonia's tug of love storyline will be starting in the next two weeks, and we finally know how she finds out about Chloe's parents being dead. She reads it in the local paper. I was thinking about how Sonia would find out about the death and where Chloe was, because the adopted parents moved after Sonia's kidnap attempt. It must be written in the obituary that people are to meet at their address.

After the death I suppose Chloe (Rebecca) is put into foster care, has everyone seen the picture of Sonia, Chloe and another woman (who do you think this is?).

I don't see how Sonia has any chance of getting Chloe back now. She tried to get her back not long after she was put up for adoption. She even had Pauline with her for support, and to fight their case, five years has gone by since then, (I can't believe it's been so long).

Do you think that because Sonia is married to Chloe's father now it would change things? After 5 years apart is it going to be the best thing for Chloe to go back to her real parents, if she comes to them she's not even going to know who they are, it will take a very long time to grow back that bond. I know Sonia has never lost the love for her daughter, but I don't Chloe will feel the same. I don't know about Martin, I'm sure he would accept her, she's his daughter, but I don't know if the love with be there straight away. It's complicated!

[Cupcake]

Maybe if she eva gets her back there will be problems with how martin feels? Lol.

[littlemo]

I know Martin is Chloe's father but he didn't get a chance to bond with her as a baby and I don't think he would have wanted too back then. Now it's different, but I think his love for her will have to grow. Sonia's love is automatic, she loved her when she was a baby and it hasn't gone away, the bond is already established.

I'm just saying I think it will be more difficult for Martin to bond with the child. Maybe I'm wrong, I guess we'll have to see how it goes.

[#1 Eastender]

the other woman could be a social worker

[#1 Eastender]

where is this picture of sonia, chloe and the other woman?

[*JSW*]

Sadly I can see this storyline being really rubbish! They need to make it interseing or nobody will care. Sonia's totally different now as well she's turned into super bitch! She used to be so nice as well. Where will Chloe stay? The Fowler's residence is full!

[i.luv.jake.moon]

oh your nice

[littlemo]

Yeah that's an idea. Do you think Sonia lies about who she is, so she can see Chloe? Or do you think the 'social worker' just shows pity on her. When she first gave Chloe up for adoption, I think it was understood that Sonia could send things to her and maybe even see her with the adoptive parents consent. The parents who adopted her were very kind to Sonia at first, but when Sonia took her away, they moved from the area. I'm sure she still sends Chloe a card on her birthday.

[#1 Eastender]

apparently sonia fights for custody of chloe after relising sje never should have had her adopted in the first place but theres still one thing that stands in the way, chloes adoptive grandparents also want custody and will anything to get her.

[Jade]

The other women is Cloe's gran I think. I'm not sure but I think Sonia is going to have a difficult time getting Cloe back as her addoptive pearents would have probbly specified in their will what should happen to Cloe if anything happens to them. She certinally would not automatically get Cloe.

Also how many people live at the Fowlers, they would have to move somwhere else eventually or throw Derek out.

[*JSW*]

Hopefully the storyline will be full of drama. It could have potential and Natalie cassidy is a good actor and she should be able to portray her character well. High drama anyway....

[littlemo]

I didn't know about Chloe's grandparents wanting custody, that's a new one on me. In this case one thing is on Martin and Sonia's side, that is age. Also love, Sonia must love her daughter a lot more than Chloe's grandparent do, and whose better than her real parents.

Sonia isn't just regretting giving Chloe up for adoption, she has regretted it pretty much every day since she did it. Shortly after she gave her up she was trying to get her back. Pauline came with her to the solicitor to see whether there was any chance, and there wasn't. Then her pain got so bad that she kidnapped Chloe, just because she couldn't cope with life without her. She can't really think about her, because it causes her so much upset, she tries to get on with her life, but it doesn't go away.

I just think Chloe belongs with Sonia and Martin, accommodation isn't really an issue, it's the fact that they are her parents that's what counts. It would just be unfair to prevent them being together. Now that Sonia and Martin are married, they have a stable home to bring her up, they are no longer children, it just makes sense.

[Jade]

Unfortunately it doesnt happen that way. Once you give a child up for adoption you sign away any perental rights until the childs 18 birthday.

Also if Social Workers were assessing Sonia and Martin for perental suitability then accomodation would be one of the things they would look at.

[littlemo]

Well I suppose on the plus side they do own their own home, and I'm sure Pauline would help out with convincing the social worker it is a secure environment to bring Chloe up in. It may be seen as a bonus, Pauline living with them. Martin and Sonia both working, they are bringing money in, and they've got Pauline too help them out if they are stuck with a babysitter.

If there was no possibility of Sonia and Martin getting Chloe what is the point of the storyline? There must be some loop holes they haven't come across yet.

[Jade]

I think their is a possibility but I dont think they will automatially get her back because they are her natural pearents.

Also that stuff with Sarah the Stalker will come to light. Stable marriage?

[Rach33]

Sonia signed the adoption papers she has no rights or say over her daughters future she will have to wait until Chloe is 18 and wait for her to contact her it's illegal if she tries to contact Chloe

[Jade]

Also, they have to make sure they do it realistially or they may give false hope to others in a similar situation

[Rach33]

Exactly if Sonia fights for custody and wins people might think they can get their children back and they can't

four of my cousins are adopted and none of them have tracked down their real parents even though they are over 18 they don't want to it's the childs choice in the end

[Jade]

Yea my mum is adopted, she only tracked down the women who gave birth to her when she had kids and wanted to find out if there was any heridatory medical conditions that may affect her kids

[Rach33]

So that will be two of us mad if they handle this badly

[Jade]

Oh yes I will be fuming if they dont do it properly. It could be an amazing storyline if they do it correctly

[Crazzykayzz]

omg i really hated that bitch stalker sarah! i no it aint nothing 2 do what u have wrote, bt i had 2 get it out of ma system lol!

[littlemo]

I can understand Sonia and Martin won't get Chloe back automatically, but I don't think the stuff with Sarah will influence the social workers decision. Sarah was the crazy one not Martin or Sonia, and she went to prison for it. Nobody thought it was their fault. Martin was just being nice walking her home, he didn't know where it would lead.

[#1 Eastender]

Sonia signed the adoption papers she has no rights or say over her daughters future she will have to wait until Chloe is 18 and wait for her to contact her it's illegal if she tries to contact Chloe
Yes but if her adopted parents die then her real parants should be the first to know and should be given the option whether to have her back, any one would be a fool not to if you ask me

[*JSW*]

Yes but if her adopted parents die then her real parants should be the first to know and should be given the option whether to have her back, any one would be a fool not to if you ask me
But sadly it doesn't work like that. When you give up the rights to your child thats it. You loose contact forever thats unless you track them down. Its all very complicated.

[littlemo]

Yes the real parents should be contacted if the adopted parents die, especially the birth mother. Maybe not in all cases where the mother doesn't want to know, but in Sonia's case she was allowed to send cards and presents on Chloe's birthday, keep in contact. She loves her daughter and cares about what happens to her.

I'm not sure about the whole thing with being allowed to gain custody again, not in normal circumstances. We know the characters of Sonia and Martin, and I would love them to get her back, but in real life if you give up a child, you shouldn't just be allowed to get her back just like that. You don't know what there like, there may be some very alarming reasons why they decided to give them up in the first place, unsuitable home environment, relationships etc.

[*JSW*]

The situation is extremley complicated and littlemo you make some good points. I think that yes she wants contact and more importantly the ability to be her full-time carer. The situation is very unusual but i honestly wouldn't think they would be allowed custody just incase what happened in the past could potentially happen again. The situation is difficult and the legality of it all is complicated i'm no law expert so I couldn't (and highly doubt anybody else on here could) explain the exact legal details of the case.

[#1 Eastender]

well whatevevr happens i think that their will deffinately be a court case involved somewhere along the line dont you?

[littlemo]

Yes I do, I'm definetely going to be watching that episode. Does anyone know what would happen in a court situation? What kind of questions would the lawyer ask? Maybe it would be settled out of court, but with a judge present.

Would Sonia have to go over what happened, why she gave up Chloe for adoption, what has changed in the past 5 years. Do you think Sonia would have to mention Jamie. I suppose it was a contributing factor to why Chloe was given up, he wasn't prepared to take on someone else's child. Now she is married to the father of her child. So that's got to make a difference.

[littlemo]

Do you think in this case, Sonia will get Chloe back? from what I've heard it is very likely. I read the quote by Natalie Cassidy, who said becoming a mum was the kiss of death in a soap, so it seems she thinks that will happen. I also read something which said Chloe was set to be another Chesney.

I really don't see the point of doing the storyline if Sonia doesn't get her daughter back, because she has looked into fighting for custody before. Remember shortly after Chloe was given up she turned to Pauline for help in winning her back. They were told they didn't have a chance. Then we saw Sonia kidnap Chloe, only to be told again she had no rights over her daughter, and was made to hand her back.

[Crazzykayzz]

reali; martin is chloe's father!!!!!!!
i found out in the mag that demi and mickey r brothers and sisters in real life, omg i neva new that! lmao!

[littlemo]

Yes Martin is Chloe's father and Demi and Mickey are brother and sister in real life. I'm surprised you didn't know about Martin being the father of Sonia's child, the storyline has been going on for 4 years.

Martin and Sonia had a one night stand about 5 months before her and Jamie became a couple. Sonia had the baby the night her and Jamie were supposed to have sex for the first time. Sonia had no idea she was pregnant. She quickly had her adopted, and tried to keep the father of the baby secret from everyone. She finally had to tell Jamie, which happened on Christmas Day (that's a surprise ha). Jamie went round and punched Martin, and told all, Martin didn't even know he was the father (Sonia had lied to him and said he wasn't). Martin was bewildered, Pauline went round and slapped Sonia in the face for supposedly being 'a lying slag', not quoting exactly but something along those lines. Sonia told Martin the truth, and he left crying his eyes out, serves him right.

Jamie and Sonia eventually got back together and despite there falling outs, they really loved each other. You know the rest. Martin and Sonia are now married, and the whole adoption thing is raising it's head again.

[~Sooz~]

Also, they have to make sure they do it realistially or they may give false hope to others in a similar situation

very true - sounds like a very complex situation and like you say they have to make sure its done right.

[littlemo]

Yes they do, because Eastenders does deal with a lot of issues the public can relate to, and this is one of these. So it would have to be dealt with sensitively, although I do want Sonia and Martin to get their 'baby' back, I really think it would make their family complete. They love each other already, and the social worker will see that they haven't got married for the sake of getting their child back. They are a stable happy couple, and before anyone mentions the stalker situation, it wasn't their fault, it could happen to anyone. The fact that Martin didn't even kiss Sarah, shows how much Sonia means to him, he's not the old Martin we used to hate.

[littlemo]

Sorry 'hate' is a bit harsh, but the way he treated Sonia after she had the baby was awful. I know Martin didn't actually know the baby was his, but that is no excuse for calling her a slag! Do you remember the things he said to Jamie about her. Also the way Martin used to smirk around the square, like the cat who'd got the cream, everytime Jamie was around it really got on my nerves.

Anyway he has really grown up since then, and I really think he is a lot more responsible. I actually like him now, he's a good person. I think he'll make a good father. And he already is a good husband.

[*JSW*]

Hopefully this storyline will bring out the maturity so to speak within martin and Sonia and take their relationship to the next level so to speak. They have moved on significantly as a couple and now as a family we'll see them as a strong flourishing family unit(which for Eastenders is something rare :))

[littlemo]

Yes I'd love that, they are great! I can't believe what Martin and Sonia have become, thinking back to the way they were towards each other when they were younger. It's amazing!

[Jade]

But not very realistic

He didnt want anything to do with her when she had his child

THEN

He runs over the love of her life (at the time)

I dont think a real person would even go there!!

[*JSW*]

Unrealistic mabye impossible no! Soaps do need to be realistic but if they were all the time then they'd be dull. These kind of storylines give hope to others and prove that in an often dark world there can be rays of sunshine. You could say false hope but its an example of hope non the less and thats something that can help when things feel like they're getting on top of you. It may sound silly but its true.

[littlemo]

Replying to what Judejude said earlier, don't forget that Martin didn't know Chloe was his at the time. If Sonia had told him the truth, I think he would have done the right thing by her. Not only because Pauline would have forced him too, but because he was willing to face up to it. Sonia made the intelligent decision of not telling him, she didn't want him involved.

It was only on Christmas day Martin found out the truth, because Jamie found out and shouted it to the whole square (well Pauline's house but it's practically the same thing).

[faramin]

i can understand sonia's sistuation as being a mother ..yes its natures way that a mother feels like that for her child. but now chloe is 5 years old..one must think about that child and how that child is going to feel for example when i was about 5 my mum and dad used to joke with me and tell me that they were'nt my real mum and dad and i as a child would start crying my eyes out and used to say to them that i didnt want my real mum and dad because i love you. i wouldnt accept the fact my mum and dad could be someone else because i only wanted the people who had been with me and brought me up as my mum and dad and family.

on other hand i am not adopted as i said my mum and dad would tease me only but even if i had been adopted i might have agreeded to see my real mum and dad but i dont think i could grow to love them in the same way as my adopted mum and dad because afterall they are the ones who have always been their for me as far as i can remember thourght out illness, sadness and happiness ..


i know you guys might think am abit for a cow..buts just my way of expressing what i think?? what do u guys and girls think about what i have said?

[~Sooz~]

I think what you said makes perfect sense. I remember a friend of mine's world being torn apart when she found out she was adopted. I wonder though how different those feelings would have been in the event of the adopted parents' death though. Even for a 5 year old its not an easy thing to deal with, as resilient as kids are, its a lot to get your little head around! Even then they would want someone they knew, like an Auntie or Grannie.

[Torrie]

I think it's going to be really unrealistic if Sonia gets Chloe back and it'll make adoptions laws look like a joke - she gave her up and there are other adoptive relatives involved (the grandparents), so she has no claim that would stand up in court. I'm not being completely heartless, I can see that it would be hard for Sonia, especially now that she would be in more of a position to raise her daughter and it would be an interesting storyline. I just don't think she should get her back - unless maybe the grandparents don't feel they could cope or something ...

[RIP_Rubbish_Gangster]

'I didn't know about Chloe's grandparents wanting custody, that's a new one on me. In this case one thing is on Martin and Sonia's side, that is age. Also love, Sonia must love her daughter a lot more than Chloe's grandparent do, and whose better than her real parents.'

I think thats complete rubbish. Sonia gave up that baby so she should go to her Grandparents (who would never give her up). Just because they're not her biological Grandparents doesn't mean they don't love her as much as Sonia would. Anyone can be a Mother, it takes someone special to stick around and be there as a Mum.

I speak from experience.

[Ebony]

I'll agree witH YOU TO AN EXTENT r.i.p Gangster.

The Parents next of Kin or who ever is in the Will, will have custody of Rebecca (chloe) And regardless of what people think, her adoptive grandparents will love her even more than Sonia will.
Reason is Sonia loves Chloe as a baby she has had no contact with her for 3 years and doesn't even know what she looks like.....yes she will painfully love her as her own child but the grandparents have been there all Rebecca's life and they they know eachother and regard eachother family.
Sonia will have signed away all rights to that child which legally she can never re-gain UNLESS Rebecca wants to find her real parents.

But seeing as this is Eastenders and nothing makes sense I dare say Sonia will get or try and get custody.
It will make NO difference at all that she is married to the biological father. :D

[littlemo]

The way people are saying it, it sounds like Sonia didn't care about Chloe (Rebecca), and just abandoned her because she was selfish. Sonia thought she was doing the best thing at the time. It was a shock for her having the baby, and because she didn't know she was pregnant until she had it, it didn't seem real to her. She thought she'd give her up quickly and it wouldn't hurt, but it didn't work. And she did try to get her back several times. I don't think a 15 year old can be held responsible for abandonment, all she had too support her was her brother & her grandad, other than that she was all alone.

Maybe it would make more sense to give Chloe to her grandparents, but I don't think it would be best for Chloe in the long term. She might have all the material things, but Sonia and Martin are her proper parents. If Sonia get's Chloe back she will have a family that love her and that's important. Her grandparents have known her 4 years, but Sonia helped make her. I'm sorry I just don't agree that the grandparents would be the better option.

[biffboff2005]

um so agree he is hot better than dennis

[wilwood]

Sonia could get Chloe back under the law. However before anyone can apply for a residence order they need to be granted Parental Responsibility. In a case where a child is adopted that order can only be granted by a County or High Court Judge (does anyone see Deed figuring in this storyline :) )

The adoptive granparents would also have to make an application for a Parental Responsibility Order so they are starting from the same legal position as Sonia and Martin.

Depending on the age of the grandparents they could find it very difficult to obtain more than a residence order. My guess is that Sonia and Martin will be granted a temporary residence order and after, say, 6 months this would be reviewed with a view to making it permanent. The fact that Sonia and Martin are now married might influence the decision. Also the fact that Martin did not know about Chloe and never gave his rights up as a father may be Sonia's saving grace.

I just hope EE handle the legal aspects properly and show that this is not an easy decision for a Judge to come to or for Chloe to adjust to....bring it on I say.

[Debs]

this is going to be a great storyline. at lat sonia and martin will be getting a proper part to play rather than little crappy ones! i think that chloe should go back to sonia and martin. sonia really regretted giving chloe away and now she has a chance to get her daughter back. think it will be a shock to martin to suddenly have the responsibility of being a dad but he will be great! and im sure they will have lots of 'help' from pauline!!

[littlemo]

Yeah I know it's going to be great, it's probably going to dig up everything from the past, I love when Eastenders really focuses on character based storylines, they are trying to do that a lot more now. We will probably get to hear about Jamie and what the situation was when Sonia gave her up, until the present day. I'd love to hear it again.

I remember in an interview with James Alexandrou (Martin), he said it was funny that him and Sonia haven't really talked about Jamie since they've got together, and I think it will be interesting for Martin to hear what Sonia has gone through too, bring it home to him! They haven't really talked about Chloe either, I'd love to see how Martin will be around his daughter, how he will feel. It will be interesting to explore this storyline.

[RIP_Rubbish_Gangster]

The way people are saying it, it sounds like Sonia didn't care about Chloe (Rebecca), and just abandoned her because she was selfish. Sonia thought she was doing the best thing at the time. It was a shock for her having the baby, and because she didn't know she was pregnant until she had it, it didn't seem real to her. She thought she'd give her up quickly and it wouldn't hurt, but it didn't work. And she did try to get her back several times. I don't think a 15 year old can be held responsible for abandonment, all she had too support her was her brother & her grandad, other than that she was all alone.

Maybe it would make more sense to give Chloe to her grandparents, but I don't think it would be best for Chloe in the long term. She might have all the material things, but Sonia and Martin are her proper parents. If Sonia get's Chloe back she will have a family that love her and that's important. Her grandparents have known her 4 years, but Sonia helped make her. I'm sorry I just don't agree that the grandparents would be the better option.

So what you're saying is to drag a four year old way from the people who know and care for her, would never abandon her and love her and give her to complete strangers.

No matter how young the child is, she has formed relationships and giving her back to her natural mother JUST because she's 'blood' is down right cruel. You sound like a right mitchell!

[RIP_Rubbish_Gangster]

this is going to be a great storyline. at lat sonia and martin will be getting a proper part to play rather than little crappy ones! i think that chloe should go back to sonia and martin. sonia really regretted giving chloe away and now she has a chance to get her daughter back. think it will be a shock to martin to suddenly have the responsibility of being a dad but he will be great! and im sure they will have lots of 'help' from pauline!!

WHAT! You think that a four year old who can walk, talk and go to nursery school should be shoved with complete strangers just because the biological mother gave birth to her. You actually think this is fair to do to a human being who has just lost her mum and dad in an accident and probably doesn't know the truth.

Sonia made her bed, she has to lie in it and cruel twist of fate does not entitle her to her rights as a deserting parent, no matter what age she was at the time.

As I said before, I speak from experience as an adopted person. I certainly wouldn't want to be placed with strangers just because of a blood line.

[E4cett]

I can't wait for this storyline. I think it would be great if sonia and Martin get cloe back, they would make really good parents and it opens up so many more story lines for them in the future. I think they are one of the best couples in soaps at the moment and excellend actors. I hope its full of drama but turns out good for them in the end.

[RIP_Rubbish_Gangster]

I give up. Obviously everyone on here thinks its fair to do this to a little person and if EE lets this happen on screen, I'll stop watching.

[Jade]

I dont!! Sonia gave up all perental rights when she had Chloe adopted. It might be hard for Sonia but never-the-less Chloe will be much better of with people she knows (that are suitable pearents) ie grandpearents, aunties, uncles.

Also the people who are Chloe's pearent should have specified who they want to look after Chloe if something happens to them.

AND - I dont think there is a clause in the adpotion law that if the adoptive pearents die the natural pearents get any say in what happens.

[RIP_Rubbish_Gangster]

I dont!! Sonia gave up all perental rights when she had Chloe adopted. It might be hard for Sonia but never-the-less Chloe will be much better of with people she knows (that are suitable pearents) ie grandpearents, aunties, uncles.

Also the people who are Chloe's pearent should have specified who they want to look after Chloe if something happens to them.

AND - I dont think there is a clause in the adpotion law that if the adoptive pearents die the natural pearents get any say in what happens.

Thank you! It's nice to know that there are some people that see it from the viewpoint of the child and their adoptive family. I also agree, there is no clause in the law.

I will honestly stop watching if Eastenders run this storyline in Sonia's favour.

[Jade]

If you read the press office spoilers someone as posted under Spoilers*2* it says Martin doesnt want anything to do with it and says Chloe is not their daugher anymore

[Rach33]

Chloe is now Rebecca Sonia gave her up for adoption she has no rights, say or any legal hold over the child. Sonia has to wait for Chloe to come to her and I will also stop watching if it goes in Sonai's favour as this gives unrealistic outcomes to what happens after a child is adopted hope EE doesn't ruin the last three great months with a storyline like Sonia getting Chloe back

[danielle741]

i think your wrong... somecases natural parents probably would get their child back... if they feel the grandparents wouldn't be able to look after chloe then they wont give them custody! if you think about it chloes grandparents could be getting on in their age... if something happened to them then who would chloe go to? i yhink this storyline will be great and have lots of twists to it!
can't wait!

[Alisha]

Hopefully the storyline will be full of drama. It could have potential and Natalie cassidy is a good actor and she should be able to portray her character well. High drama anyway....

I agree with you there. As far as young talent goes, Natalie Cassidy is the best in ee and Sonia Jackson is a strong level headed female. I like her. She has been increadibaly under used last year and Im hope that this storyline will put her in the center again.

In terms of Chloe, I think the whole process will be very bumpy. The last thing I want is for it to be quick and easy. There is alot to consider here. Sonia Jackson did give her up for adoptin afterall and kidnapped her too. I can imagine that there will be lots of twists and turns along the way and testing time for Sonia and Martin.

[littlemo]

Can somebody tell me if it's true that Martin wants nothing to do with Sonia's plan to get Chloe (Rebecca) back? It seems a bit strange too me. Chloe (Rebecca) is Martin's daughter too, I know he didn't real bond with her as much as Sonia did, but why wouldn't he care that the adoptive parents are dead, and she's going to have to go into a foster home, probably. That's his own flesh and blood.

If it's true Martin wants nothing to do with it, I'm sure it won't be his opinion for long. Sonia can twist him round her little finger. If this is what she wants, there going to do it. I personally think it's the least Martin owes her.

[feistyblue]

Speaking as someone who works in family law, there a few specific points to be pointed out here.

One is that a child removed from its parents care and placed for adoption due to abuse is very different from a mother willingly giving up her child for adoption.

Legally, if Chloe was adopted because of abuse (and remember that means emotional as well as physical) then Sonia would have no chance of having her returned when the adoptive parents die.

Obviously that isn't the case here. Also, in this situation, when the adoptive parents die, there is no-one with any legal rights to Chloe. Grandparents have no automatic rights to grandchildren anyway and always have to first apply for leave (permission) to apply for an Order, before they can even issue residence/contact proceedings.

Of course Sonia and Martin have no rights at this point either for different reasons.

The Court would very much favour the natural parents in a situation like this, and quite rightly so. Chloe would either go into foster care or into a family foster care placement i.e her adoptive grandparents.

The stuff with Sarah would have no bearing whatsoever on the case. It wouldn't even be allowed to be mentioned in Court or statements as it is highly irrelevant.

This isn't so different to the Emmerdale story line with Debbie - except she was placed with a friend of the family without any offcial orders, which you just can't do these day.s

It will be very interesting to see where the EE writers take this story line, as realistically Chloe would end up being placed back with Sonia.

[di marco]

thanks for outlining the rules on that. i hope sonia does get chloe back, she really loves her

[littlemo]

Yeah thankyou it is appreciated, I was lead to believe Sonia wouldn't have a chance at all of getting Chloe back, this has given me hope! Also I can now see why they are doing this storyline, if it there was a dead end, it would be silly.

There are a few questions I would like to ask if you wouldn't mind. Firstly would the past events come up in the court room, for example; the situation with her and Jamie during the adoption process, why she decided to give her up, what the circumstances were with her and Martin.

Do the adopted grandparents have just as much chance as Sonia & Martin in this case? Wouldn't they have to consider why Sonia gave her up in the first place, what made her come to this decision, how Martin feels about having Chloe back etc.?

[littlemo]

I would like to add that as much as I want Sonia to get her daughter back, I feel I may have offended some people here. I didn't mean to imply before that all natural parents should get their child they gave up for adoption back automatically. Although if the adopted grandparents can't take her, and it's either her going to a foster home or go and live with parents that love her, I feel this would be the better option.

I do think Sonia loves her, it's slightly different for Martin because he hasn't had a chance to bond with her, but I think he would love her. Sonia did give her up for adoption, but it was a different time, different circumstances. It shouldn't be easy to get her back, but she should be given a chance.

[Jade]

I dont think you've offended anyone its just that alot of people have quite strong views on this :)

[Alisha]

Its a complicated situation all round Im really looking forward to this storyline. It makes a break from the Zoe and Sam drivel we are getting lately. Considering the circumstances, I think it will be a long process and loads to consider. Sonia and Martin may be her natural parents but Sonia did give her up for adoption afterall and when you do- thats it. I partly agree with some of the comments above. Chloe must be 4/5 now so already she has already formed strong ties with her extended family. I have a 5 year old cousin and it would devastate my family if she was given to another family. Being part of a family isn't just the parents, its everyone -aunties, uncles, grandaperants, cousins etc. Chloe has formed bonds and the early years are the most important in any childs life.

I dont consider Sonia selfish and a bad person though. Lets look at the facts -Sonia was only 15 at the time and didn't know she was pregnant. She wasn't planning to have a child. Then one day, out of the blue she goes into labour and has a child that she didn't want at the time. As adults, we sometimes make the wrong decisions which we later regret but in Sonia's defense, she was a minor who thought she was doing the right thing at the time. She wasn't in a stable and emotional state to make a such a life changeing and huge decision but did what she thought was best at the time.

You hear stories all the time concerning teenagers who get pregnant, have babies and cant deal with the aftermarth or worse - leave them in skip etc. I felt for Sonia at the time. It was quite clear after a year that she regreted her decision and desperatly wanted Chloe back but it was too late. I thought the two hander between Sonia and Dot after she kidnapped Chloe was great (anyone remember that?). I dont doubt for a second tha Sonia loves Chloe though. Ever since she gave her up for adoption, we have had scenes where she mentions Chloe and how she thinks of her everyday.

[RIP_Rubbish_Gangster]

Speaking as someone who works in family law, there a few specific points to be pointed out here.

One is that a child removed from its parents care and placed for adoption due to abuse is very different from a mother willingly giving up her child for adoption.

Legally, if Chloe was adopted because of abuse (and remember that means emotional as well as physical) then Sonia would have no chance of having her returned when the adoptive parents die.

Obviously that isn't the case here. Also, in this situation, when the adoptive parents die, there is no-one with any legal rights to Chloe. Grandparents have no automatic rights to grandchildren anyway and always have to first apply for leave (permission) to apply for an Order, before they can even issue residence/contact proceedings.

Of course Sonia and Martin have no rights at this point either for different reasons.

The Court would very much favour the natural parents in a situation like this, and quite rightly so. Chloe would either go into foster care or into a family foster care placement i.e her adoptive grandparents.

The stuff with Sarah would have no bearing whatsoever on the case. It wouldn't even be allowed to be mentioned in Court or statements as it is highly irrelevant.

This isn't so different to the Emmerdale story line with Debbie - except she was placed with a friend of the family without any offcial orders, which you just can't do these day.s

It will be very interesting to see where the EE writers take this story line, as realistically Chloe would end up being placed back with Sonia.

I also work very closely with SS and I have to say that in this case, I feel that the child would be most definatly placed with Family Foster Care above all else. I.E Legal family - the grandparents. SS ALWAYS go for that option above all else, it saves their time and their money - it's the simple choice. It would be a different case, obviously, if Sonia decided to go for custody.

Everything about this story line makes my blood boil (as I'm sure you can tell). I'm not angry at anyone for having a differing opinion to me but I am angry that this subject is going to be even attempted to be covered because I don't believe it's fair on all those people that can't have children of their own. It basically slaps them in the face as 'not being blood' of the child that they guard with their life.

[littlemo]

I dont consider Sonia selfish and a bad person though. Lets look at the facts -Sonia was only 15 at the time and didn't know she was pregnant. She wasn't planning to have a child. Then one day, out of the blue she goes into labour and has a child that she didn't want at the time. As adults, we sometimes make the wrong decisions which we later regret but in Sonia's defense, she was a minor who thought she was doing the right thing at the time. She wasn't in a stable and emotional state to make a such a life changeing and huge decision but did what she thought was best at the time.

You hear stories all the time concerning teenagers who get pregnant, have babies and cant deal with the aftermarth or worse - leave them in skip etc. I felt for Sonia at the time. It was quite clear after a year that she regreted her decision and desperatly wanted Chloe back but it was too late. I thought the two hander between Sonia and Dot after she kidnapped Chloe was great (anyone remember that?). I dont doubt for a second tha Sonia loves Chloe though. Ever since she gave her up for adoption, we have had scenes where she mentions Chloe and how she thinks of her everyday.

I totally agree with this quote. I think that Sonia has struggled to cope every day with the decision she made. Sonia was just a child herself when she gave her baby up for adoption. People showed her very little sympathy, Jamie tried his best, but found it increasingly difficult to cope with the situation. Her brother was great, but in the end it was left to her, Robbie didn't really agree with the decision she made to give her up. Although he came round, and was very supportive towards her. I hope Sonia does get her daughter back, and I hope Robbie comes back too, because he is the best brother a girl could ask for!

[littlemo]

Oh forgot to add, yes I do remember the whole kidnap storyline, and Dot with Sonia. Dot can be a very calming influence. It was upsetting when Sonia had to hand her baby back, but she knew she was going to someone kind. The adopted mother was very understanding to Sonia, she didn't phone the police or anything. It must have been horrible for her to be separated from her own child.

[Alisha]

Oh forgot to add, yes I do remember the whole kidnap storyline, and Dot with Sonia. Dot can be a very calming influence. It was upsetting when Sonia had to hand her baby back, but she knew she was going to someone kind. The adopted mother was very understanding to Sonia, she didn't phone the police or anything. It must have been horrible for her to be separated from her own child.

That was a great episode. Moveing performances from Natalie Cassidy and June brown. I felt for Sonia haveing to give her back especially after realising what a mistake she made in giveing her up. However, she did the right thing in the end. She gave Chloe up to another family and technically Chloe is not her's anymore and whatever regrets she may have over it -its done and theres no going back. I felt for the parents too. It was a heartbreaking situation all round and I do think its something Sonia will have to live with. At the time and still being so young, she wasn't thinking rationally and all she longed for was haveing her daughter back with her and not thinking about all the additonal factors. The bit I found most moveing was when Dot told Sonia about how she had an abortion but then regreted it and then heard the phone ring but didn't answar it because it was her child saying 'dont leave me' 'or how could you leave me' (something along those lines anyway) and then the same thing happened to Sonia right at the end of the episode.

Im actually glad that Sonia is getting her teeth stuck into a juicey storyline and a very complex and intresting one too. It has to be researched well and see it from everyones perspectives too make it as realistic though. Natalie is a fine actress and the chloe storyline has lots of potential as its a very diverse issues as people have different beleifs and perceptions on it. Best of all -its quite 3D so people can look at the storyline from different angles and feel for the characters. I do however want the outcome for Chloes grandparents to get her Chloe in the end. It will be heartbreaking for Sonia I know but whats done is done and I would prefer it if Chloe turned up in 10 years time and say 'hello mum'.

[RIP_Rubbish_Gangster]

Oh forgot to add, yes I do remember the whole kidnap storyline, and Dot with Sonia. Dot can be a very calming influence. It was upsetting when Sonia had to hand her baby back, but she knew she was going to someone kind. The adopted mother was very understanding to Sonia, she didn't phone the police or anything. It must have been horrible for her to be separated from her own child.

What about how the adoptive mother felt. To her that little girl is her own child. Why do people always seem to forget that the adoptive person goes through hell to get a child when people like Sonia are able to have them and then give them up.

[fosse]

Why are people assuming that there can be no compromise between an adopted child in similar circumstances to the fictional Chloe, in that the child can be returned to the care of the birth mother and father, AND retain close contact with the adopted grandparents. Compromise is so often the answer to these complicated and often heartbreaking tug of love cases, and a helpful attitude from the numerous childcare workers involved, can resolve issues between the two families to the advantage of all concerned.

[SoapRach]

In reality yes. Soaps don't know the meaning of the word compromise!

[*JSW*]

The storyline should hopefully pan out in quite a nice way. Hopefully it won't be a 2 second thing and Sonai gets her baby girl back. I'm hopeing to see emotion from all parties involved. Something like a journey for Sonia through the different emotions of seeing her daughter and trying to get her back. The storyline hopefully will be carrired with some sensitivity...

[fosse]

Hopefully the introduction of loving adopted grandparents in the Sonia/Chloe storyline might make Pauline think about her own self righteous and possessive attitude towards her children and grandchildren. I'd like to see a strong, pleasant, adoptive family who would support Sonia and Martin, but stand up to Pauline, if she tries to interfere, as she inevitably will. I would just love to see Pauline for once being made to value what she has, rather than continually bemoaning her own fate, and making everyone elses life a misery in the process!

[Alisha]

What about how the adoptive mother felt. To her that little girl is her own child. Why do people always seem to forget that the adoptive person goes through hell to get a child when people like Sonia are able to have them and then give them up.


I agree but I think thats partly to do with the fact that we haven't seen Chloes adoptive parents side on it and what they emotionally went through at the time of the kidnappeing. We saw Sonia struggle with it so we (well I) felt for her but there was nothing on the adopted parents side (although I did feel for them too despite the little attention they recieved) and I'm hopeing that the audience see their feelings over the subject matter throughout the upcomeing storyline. Sonia had her reasons for giveng Chloe up at the time and I dont blame her but its something she will have to live with now despite her desperation to have her daughter back in her life.

[littlemo]

No we didn't really see much of the adoptive parents during the kidnapping storyline, I'm sure they felt upset. I remember the scene where Sonia gave Chloe back to her adoptive mother, it was very short but heartfelt. Sonia said she was sorry and the adopted mother just gave a little nod as if she understood. I suppose they had similar feelings, Sonia was missing her child, and I don't know the circumstances around the adoptive parents deciding to adopt, but I would guess infertility. The woman did have sympathy for Sonia.

[sarah21]

What about how the adoptive mother felt. To her that little girl is her own child. Why do people always seem to forget that the adoptive person goes through hell to get a child when people like Sonia are able to have them and then give them up.

Yes, it would've been terrible for all concerned. But the 'people like Sonia are able to have them and then give them up' is very harsh. She was a 15 year old child who didn't even know she was pregnant, and still in shock unable to cope with a baby, she made a rash decision. Sonia didn't even have her mother for support, only her grandfather who had made it quite clear that she had let him down and a hapless Robbie. She made that decision for all the right reasons at the time, but regretted it a few months later when it was too late. With support like Demi has with Rosie, or if Dot had been in Jim's life then, it would never have happened. I've only felt sympathy for the character of Sonia over this, as it must be devastating to miss someone so badly every day of your life. Adoption is hardly ever a question of just giving them up - there is always a price to pay.


Why are people assuming that there can be no compromise between an adopted child in similar circumstances to the fictional Chloe, in that the child can be returned to the care of the birth mother and father, AND retain close contact with the adopted grandparents. Compromise is so often the answer to these complicated and often heartbreaking tug of love cases, and a helpful attitude from the numerous childcare workers involved, can resolve issues between the two families to the advantage of all concerned.

Well said. That's the outcome that I'm hoping for. Chloe's adoptive grandparents must be well into their sixties, because Sue Miller looked to be at least late thirties when we last saw her. Looking after a 4 year old full time would certainly be a very demanding role for her grandparents and would only get worse as they all get older. These people could help with the transition if Sonia and Martin did get custody of Chloe. She knows them and it would be very cruel to deprive them of her after losing their child. But I do think she would be better reunited with her natural parents, Chloe could even have brothers or sisters.

However, reading a bit today in the mags, Martin really doesn't want Chloe back. He tells Sonia to leave Chloe alone and knowing how Sonia feels about Chloe, if Martin doesn't support her I don't have much hope for their marriage.

[Sazzy32]

I have heard that Derek is about to leave the soap so that would make room for the baby at Pauline's house :D

[Alisha]

Yes, it would've been terrible for all concerned. But the 'people like Sonia are able to have them and then give them up' is very harsh. She was a 15 year old child who didn't even know she was pregnant, and still in shock unable to cope with a baby, she made a rash decision. Sonia didn't even have her mother for support, only her grandfather who had made it quite clear that she had let him down and a hapless Robbie. She made that decision for all the right reasons at the time, but regretted it a few months later when it was too late. With support like Demi has with Rosie, or if Dot had been in Jim's life then, it would never have happened. I've only felt sympathy for the character of Sonia over this, as it must be devastating to miss someone so badly every day of your life. Adoption is hardly ever a question of just giving them up - there is always a price to pay.



I fully agree with Sarah. I can imagine that adoption can't be an easy and simple decision for many mothers. It changes everything. Sonia made the decision because she thought she was doing the right thing. Keeping Chloe doesn't mean that she would love her any more/less because she put her up for adoption. Sonia haveing Chloes adopted was a selfless act- not selfish (although on some level, she is guilty of being slightly selfish in wanting her back -although its not excusable, its understandable). Afterall it was Chole that Sonia was thinking about at the time and not herself. Sonia was born and raised in a working class family so she better than anyone knows what it will be like if she decided to raise Chloe as her own. In Sonia's situation it was worse because her large family unit had left her without the support of her mother. It was clear that Martin wasn't ready to become a father despite the fact that he shares half the responsibility in Sonia haveing his child in the first place. Robbie was a rock but only Sonia knew what she was going through at the time. Sonia knew that she couldn't give Chloe the life she deserved and wanted better for her daughter, which is why she made the painful decision in giveing her up. I dont beleive that Sonia abadoned her baby as such- she was mealey offering her a life free from struggle. Sonia's actions were out of love and her intetions were for her daughter's welfare at the time. My sympathese went out to Sonia.

[littlemo]

Yes I think Sonia does deserve her child back. The mistake of giving her daughter up has been greatly regretted, and there would be so much love in that family.

I read in a magazine that Sonia kidnapping her child a few years ago goes against her, but I think that this just shows how much Chloe means to her, and what she would risk just to see her child. I read that Sonia says at one point that 'you kindnap one baby, and suddenly your a bad person' (I'm paraphrasing). I'm not saying what she did was right, but I don't think you can compare a baby being snatched by a stranger, to a mother taking her own child. Unless of course a mother had hurt the child in some way, or it had been taken away for some good reason. Sonia gave her child away voluntarily, it wasn't because of neglect or harm, it was clear she loved Chloe, and it was an open adoption. Sonia was allowed to stay in contact with Chloe, send cards and presents on her birthday, and even visit if she wanted. At the beginning Chloe's adopted parents had no problem with Sonia keeping in contact, and even when the Millers came to collect Chloe after the kidnap, they still had sympathy for Sonia, and understanding.

I doubt the Millers would want Chloe to go to Martin and Sonia, but as they are no longer living, it is up to the courts to decide. I would rather her be with her biological parents. Just stating my opinion, please be gentle lol.

[Debs]

yeah i agree if the biological parents want the child back then surely they are the best people for that child. of course if they were still alive then it would not be best for chloe but as they are dead then her real parents are best.

[crystalsea]

I have just seen TV Mag (I think) one of them, and the headline on the front cover is that Sonia kidnaps Chloe (again!!) - anyone shed any light on this please. Thanks

[Emmak2005]

It says in this weeks inside soap that in next weeks edition there's another soap pregnancy. Maybe it could be Sonia, but I dunno who else it could be.

[littlemo]

I have just seen TV Mag (I think) one of them, and the headline on the front cover is that Sonia kidnaps Chloe (again!!) - anyone shed any light on this please. Thanks

What tv magazine is this? I've read about Sonia visiting Chloe but I haven't read anything about kidnap. I wouldn't have thought Sonia would do that again. How is Sonia supposed to get people to take Martin and her seriously when she just disobeys the system all the time. Can someone tell me if this is really true, and if so what does it say?

[sarah21]

On the front of Soaplife is the heading 'Sonia snatches Chloe?' but inside it is just questioning if she would do this again.

[RIP_Rubbish_Gangster]

I have heard that Derek is about to leave the soap so that would make room for the baby at Pauline's house :D

For the final time, this isn't a baby - it's a walking, talking, and fully aware young person, who will miss her grandparents and the rest of her family terribly when she is taken away to fulfil an (in my opinion) unrealistic, inaccurate and irresponsible storyline. The poor girl probably doesn't even know she was adopted and her parents were probably looking for the right time to tell her.

But none of this figures when Eastenders are looking for ratings and a way to claw their way up and out of their pit and it certainly doesn’t matter to the huge amount of viewers that have experienced adoption or being adopted. Hell, why don't all people that abandon their kids jump on the Sonia bandwagon and have a go at destroying lives. And yes, I use the word abandon because to an adoptee, that’s how it feels. It's a fact, people watch this and they get ideas. It's convenient they made the mum and dad dead but what Eastenders fails to remember is that there are always other people close to the child who are a major part of that child’s upbringing. The trauma felt by the extended family and the child will be catastrophic.

I've already stopped watching this pile of cacca now out of protest. I find the storyline AS AN ADOPTED PERSON, highly offensive. I feel I have the right to comment on this and feel it’s only fair that those that pass their own judgement on something they know nothing about remember that people like me watch this pile of tosh and get upset when the whole Eastenders philosophy of ‘blood is thicker then water’ crap is spewed out storyline after storyline.

Soap SHOULD reflect everyday life. This is not everyday life. Natural parents do not regain custody when there is a loving adoptive extended family ready to step in. It just doesn’t happen.

I’ve been with Eastenders since day one, through thick and thin. They’ve hacked me off now and I’m finished with it.

[SoapRach]

RIP_RUBBISH_GANGSTER

I completely agree with you. Sonia gave up her right to any say in Chloe's life when she signed the adoption papers, and I think this storyline is very unrealistic, especially if Sonia and Martin get custody. But do we know for definate that they will? If Eastenders have the storyline ending with Martin and Sonia not getting custody, it could turn out to be a very compelling and moving storyline, and still be realistic. You never know, they may be doing this story to make the exact same point as you make?

[Alisha]

[QUOTE=RIP_Rubbish_Gangster]
Soap SHOULD reflect everyday life. This is not everyday life. Natural parents do not regain custody when there is a loving adoptive extended family ready to step in. It just doesn’t happen.
QUOTE]

but we dont know whether Sonia and Martin will regain custody. I'm guessing that this storyline will have a while to go yet. I do think it would be best all round if Chloe's extended family keep her as she has already formed bonds with them and the early years of a child's life is the most important.

I don't however deem Sonia as cold heartless person for putting her child up for adoption at such a young early age though. No one knows thier own personal circumstances better than the mother themselves. I feel that if anything, the portrayal of Sonia'a actions at the time were out of love. She was thinking of Chloe's future and her welfare, not hers despite regretting it a year later. However that's something Sonia has got to live with and its the price she has to pay. No one wins. I personally dont see a right or wrong in adoption and theres no quick fix. Its not just one party that suffers as a result - I know this as my auntie had her daughter adopted. There are negative concequences all round depending on the person and cirumstances. I'm not for adoption, but I'm not against it either. :)

[RIP_Rubbish_Gangster]

RIP_RUBBISH_GANGSTER

I completely agree with you. Sonia gave up her right to any say in Chloe's life when she signed the adoption papers, and I think this storyline is very unrealistic, especially if Sonia and Martin get custody. But do we know for definate that they will? If Eastenders have the storyline ending with Martin and Sonia not getting custody, it could turn out to be a very compelling and moving storyline, and still be realistic. You never know, they may be doing this story to make the exact same point as you make?

You could be right they may very well do that but my guess is they won't. They want high viewing figures and the usual thick spread of doom and gloom and 'real faaaaaamily'.

It's not wrong that they covered the storyline of someone giving up their child for adoption as that is topical and reflects real life. The fact that they are showing that a natural mother can try and regain rights to that child is wrong, regardless of what the outcome is. All I see is EE opening up cans of worms all over the place with morons thinking they have some kind of legal right over the children they gave up. As I say, I'm finished with it. Let the axe fall.